A review of my posts on this matter will inform you about collection practices in Haiti. I have been very up front about what is standard practice in Haiti. in a word Quinadline cut with 151 rum is used to collect some fish and to prevent coral damage. In the Dominican Rep all fish are drug free.
Question for DR Imports
- Thread starter dizzy
- Start date
GreshamH":yc1faea3 said:bobimport":yc1faea3 said:
Your working with goldfish here Bob. It all has to be restated nearly hourly for something to stickNext he'll ask you if you've visited DR
Mythbusters was able to train a group of goldfish to run an aquarium maze over the course of 4 weeks. Please dont insult goldfish like that! :lol:
So basically you admit they are juicing the fish Bob, just not with cyanide. I am sorry any fish other then net caught fish should not be allowed no matter what the chemical. MI20, Cyanide, Quinadline cut with 151 rum, etc. My your own post you admit juicing.
Well, the problem is Quin is heavily used in florida too. I've asked places if they used quin, and was told it's the only way to catch certain fish, that it's absolutely fine to use, and legal. The whole cyanide/quin thing was discussed before in this thread:
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 1c592e0193
I think the only place that banned quin was puerto rico, and nobody really exports fish from there anymore except for maybe C-quest now that they are trying to do wild fish.
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 1c592e0193
I think the only place that banned quin was puerto rico, and nobody really exports fish from there anymore except for maybe C-quest now that they are trying to do wild fish.
I am aware they use it in Florida and even hawaii (seen a lot of issues with yellow tangs over the years), pretty sad we preach across the globe for people to use net caught only via MAC and other groups yet still have people using juice here. I have heard of lemon juice to spook fish out of holes and then use a net (not sure if that causes ill affect on the fish). In my experience, non net caught fish have much lower survival rates. I have done orders from Haiti long ago and had very high mortality on those fish. Particularly the Blue Reef Chromis, yet getting the same fish via Belize or other countries the mortality was much lower (this was based on personal experience Bob). I make it fairly clear to my suppliers I do not want anything from Haiti. I would love to hear from other stores on their success rates of fish from Haiti, Bob's threat of frivolous lawsuits are just to keep people from doing so as he seems to speak for Haiti. As an industry we must police ourselvs and lower the mortalities or the government might step in and do it for us by cutting us off. I do everything I can via inproving my facility and my husbandry to keep mortalities low.
:lol: using juice for massive schooling fish, thanks for the chuckle. Yellow tangs do not need anything to be used with them, nor does anyone use anything but a couple nets. Juice is used for things that hide in holes, crevices, crags, caves, coral, etc. When you have a massive schooler a barrier net and a hand net is the best two tools you can use, even over fins and a mask
"pinch" what the hell is that??? are you referring to the sunken in stomach on a yellow tang? after holding yellows in my system for two days, they start showing signs of "pinch"lol. Its called flushing.....this is what shippers do prior to shipout. All yellow tangs get thin in the stomach quickly if they are not gorging themselves all day on the reef. The reason some newbies dont understand this, and think that it is some type of permanent condition is because they dont allow the fish to graze like they do in their natural habitat, thus the fish never has the full look. Feeding a yellow once, or even twice a day will not fill a stomach designed to accomadate a constant supply of food. :roll: try feeding your fish a normal diet, and see if pinch gets pinched.
cya
cya
clarionreef
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Tropic knows his stuff.
Re yellow tangs;
Think of how horses and cows have huge, teardrop shaped bellies to accomodate the huge amount of roughage they take in and need to stay fit.
Yellow tanks pick, snip and nip all day long.
Over the course of the day they get full....and tend to stay full every day out on the reef.
Then,after collecting...begin the days of processing with no food at all. Their hyper-metabolism demands food and yet there is none.
Try the new algal foods put out by Reed Mariculture and watch them fatten up again.
Steve
Re yellow tangs;
Think of how horses and cows have huge, teardrop shaped bellies to accomodate the huge amount of roughage they take in and need to stay fit.
Yellow tanks pick, snip and nip all day long.
Over the course of the day they get full....and tend to stay full every day out on the reef.
Then,after collecting...begin the days of processing with no food at all. Their hyper-metabolism demands food and yet there is none.
Try the new algal foods put out by Reed Mariculture and watch them fatten up again.
Steve
A lot of people have a hard time getting YT's to recover from this condition. Seaweed selects still don't always do the trick, even use various forms of caluerpa. It is easy to say they are flushed but when the animal gets stressed has a skinny stomach and never returns to eating we call that "pinch"......
Gresham,
Well - since this thread has gone in like 20 different directions anyway, I wanted to mention my observations regarding that "oriental goldfish" video you mentioned. I watched that thing longer than I probably should have, and talked to a lot of people - the only two ideas I heard were "magnets in the fish's belly" and the fish actually being trained to do this - neither of these allowed for my personal belief system to accept them.
It is evident from their fin movement that they are not actually swimming, so that eliminates the idea that the fish actually did that. The is absolutely no sign that any of the fish are struggling - like they would if magnets were dragging them around the tank (plus ending up getting dragged backwards, etc.)
If you watch, there are actually only two fish in two different poses. Their fins movements are as if the fish were just sculling, holding their position in the water. In my opinion, the videographer has just blue screened them in...
Jay
Well - since this thread has gone in like 20 different directions anyway, I wanted to mention my observations regarding that "oriental goldfish" video you mentioned. I watched that thing longer than I probably should have, and talked to a lot of people - the only two ideas I heard were "magnets in the fish's belly" and the fish actually being trained to do this - neither of these allowed for my personal belief system to accept them.
It is evident from their fin movement that they are not actually swimming, so that eliminates the idea that the fish actually did that. The is absolutely no sign that any of the fish are struggling - like they would if magnets were dragging them around the tank (plus ending up getting dragged backwards, etc.)
If you watch, there are actually only two fish in two different poses. Their fins movements are as if the fish were just sculling, holding their position in the water. In my opinion, the videographer has just blue screened them in...
Jay
Tropic":3p4fcmvr said:
Why 2 days? (Just a question not a criticism)
swsaltwater - red gracilaria works pretty good, much better food than caulerpa. Gives them something nutritious to munch on in between feedings and won't foul the water. A 20 gallon, lr rubble on the bottom, couple of rigid airlines bubbling and a cheap NO flourescent light will do a good job of keeping the gracilaria alive. You'll sell enough handfuls of it to cover the cost.
two days is the approximate amount of time for a yellow tang and most herbivorous fish to flush out the majority of fecal matter out of their digestive system(once the food is purged out all the intestine is deflated). Even after two days they can still crap the water up, it really takes four to get them nice and clean but the vast majority comes out the first 48 hours. If i remember correctly from some literature, herbivores have extremely long intestines due to the fact that they have trouble breaking down cellulose. Carnivores have really short setups and they flush much quicker.
Attrition of tangs is not my business, so i really dont know. You obviously have some issues with your tang supply, my suggestion would be to weed through the bad suppliers to find the ones who give a damn. If you are getting fish that look like they stepped out of Auschwitz then cut that company off, and dont support their BS. Believe it or not, i think the majority of suppliers in Hawaii deliver a healthy animal, but this goes without praise because a few arseholes dont care so as a group we get painted with a pretty broad brush.
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