What's Going on at MOFIB?

[mpedersen]

Was made aware, posting for posterity:

http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/vie ... 71&t=10974

Dear MOFIB members,
On Sept.1st,2012,the BOD has formalized the separation of this Message Board (MB) from the Organization.
Which means that from now on,two entities exist,completely independent from each other:MOFIB the organization,incorporated in Illinois,USA,with all it´s legal structure,BOD,bylaws,etc. And MOFIB the message board,which is set free of legal/geographical constraints,owned and operateded by it´s members.At this point,we all are members of both entities.
Our message board will provide a special forum where the Organization could post their announcements,run polls,etc.so they can communicate with the members.
This is the result of the recent voting of the members.Personally,I´d like to thank all those who supported mi idea of a free MB and also to know the reasons that led two members to oppose to it.

IT´S ALL ABOUT BREEDING (=politics free MB)
As most of us know,politics,the struggle for power,fame and perhaps money,have chronically ruined the existance of this organization and pushed it to the verge of extintion.Leaders cared more of carrying personal attacks against others than promoting the mission of our community which is sharing info regarding breeding of ornamental marine organisms.
Now this has ended.Absolutely no politics,no personal attacks,nothing unrelated to our mission will be allowed to be posted here.Enforcing this simple rule,our MB will surely regain it´s former relevance.

MB GOVERNMENT
Normal,everyday decisions will be taken by the moderator team.Important matters will be consulted to the members.
New moderators can be appointed by the mod team.Our initial team consists of all current mods plus all the members of the BOD of the Organization.

APPEAL TO DEPARTED MEMBERS
We encourage and welcome the return of all our dear and valuable members that had left because of our political "war".Please join us in making MOFIB the free MB,a prime reference site and have fun discussing breeding matters in a world-wide range.
Struggle is over,wounds are healed and we sincerely want to be together in this new age.No hard feelings,let us all forget and forgive any offenses.Nothing compares to the joy of a working breeders brotherhood.
Ex mods and BODs will be eligible for our current mod team.All members that have been removed or placed in "read only" for political reasons will be allowed to regain their posting rights.
And finally,every war leaves ruins behind.We have ours.Some of our more valuable threads have been mutilated by their authors who removed pictures and videos.Please bring them back.This will be very good for the quality of our database,but also for the posting authors,whose threads will be always visited.

ARE MAJOR CHANGES EXPECTED?
No.The MB will continue to be the same.Perhaps some forums not related to breeding,commitees and such will be eliminated.Suggestions are appreciated in this transition stage.Basically we remain the same,only that ABSOLUTELY no politics,no name calling,no finger pointing,no uncivil behaviour will be tolerated.

SO WHAT ARE WE NOW,JUST A WEBSITE?
No,we are a community of people with a passion for breeding marine ornamentals around the world.This Message Board is just our tool to communicate.

So be very welcome to this new MOFIB,the free MB!

BOTTOM LINE- MOFIB hasn't been an entity in good standing with the state anyways, and now, since it GAVE AWAY it's most visible public asset, it can die a nice quiet death behind closed doors. Luis Magnasco emerges as dictator, holding the keys to something he has no legitimate right to own. Every last thing that every founding member sent out to do, and more specifically, every reason I agreed to incorporate in the first place, completely ignored. MOFIB's thousands in financial assets? Vanished.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION Castro...

 

[mpedersen]

Also for the record, as of 9-6-2012, "WHOIS" domain information still suggests that "MOFIB", at least some variation of MOFIB, still has control over the domains (aka. website). Via Godaddy's whois service:

Registrant:
MOFIB

28 East Jackson Bldg.
Suite 1020 #M83
Chicago, Illinois 60604
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: MARINEBREEDER.ORG
Created on: 28-Feb-07
Expires on: 28-Feb-13
Last Updated on: 29-Feb-12

Administrative Contact:
Breeder, Marine [email protected]
MOFIB
28 East Jackson Bldg.
Suite 1020 #M83
Chicago, Illinois 60604
United States
+1.4018356190

Technical Contact:
Breeder, Marine [email protected]
MOFIB
28 East Jackson Bldg.
Suite 1020 #M83
Chicago, Illinois 60604
United States
+1.4018356190

Domain servers in listed order:
NS51.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS52.DOMAINCONTROL.COM


Registry Status: CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Registry Status: CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
Registry Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registry Status: CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED

 

[Anonymous]

FWIW, IMHO, I dont think this is Luis doing. I think he just is the front guy for the real new owners of the site.

Matt, you are the original guy, and I was only part of this group for a short time after the implosion. I cannot imagine the frustration you must feel. I was only there for a year or so, and I was used up quick. I can look back now and see how I was manipulated. I joined and was told who are the bad guys, who are the good guys, and I fell for it. Is it possible you were played the same way? What happened to turn this wonderful group of people against each other?

 

[mpedersen]

Suzy, what brand of revisionist history are YOU selling? "only part of this group for a short time after the implosion'? Well...hmm...which of the many, never-ending self collapses are you referring to as "the" implosion. "What happened to turn sthis wonderful group of people against each other"? Geeze...it's pretty well documented over the last 22+ pages...READ IT. You "cannot imagine the frustration"? Please save the patronizing for a 4 year old. Luis is "just the front guy for the real new owners of the site?" There is only one legitimate entity who can claim ownership of the website at this time, and that is the legal entity into which I initially contributed a website under my personal possession, along with funds of my personal posession, some several years prior. That legal entity is the MOFIB incorporated in the state of IL, which has been mismanaged (under among other things, your watch) to the point of utter collapse..and you mean to imply that "Luis Magnasco" is not the "real owner" of the MOFIB website even under this latest public announcement, but is just a puppet figurehead for some silent, unseen owners?

Just an FYI - when a non-profit dissolves it generally MUST donate any assets that remain to a non-profit. Most states require it to be a similar non-profit within the same state, I'm not sure about Illinois. Thus, giving the assets, any or all, to Luis would be illegal, and Luis receiving illegally distributed assets may subject him to some trouble.

Just a reminder that a real life lawyer who actually knows what he was talking about weighed in on exactly what has transpired, and Suzy, to post as if you had no involvement over the past year in putting forth ideas *just like this one* is patently disturbing. Your complicit involvement in this over the past year is well documented...we need only read back here to see that. Since no one even knows who currently comprises the BOD (yes, you wishy washy resigned from it and then started acting as if you were still on it), and since the BOD failed to hold elections this year, what has been left is simple anarchy. All it took was someone with the access, whether legitimate or not, to hold a quick private vote in which not all members were even allowed to vote (see above) to create a "mandate" of dubious validity (both in terms of vote legitimacy and actual legality) and then *poof*, someone posting as Luis Magnasco (in this case, I don't doubt it's actually him....) proclaiming ownership of the website, dictatorial powers, and a zero tolerance policy for politics (sound familiar to the last few years) yet we are now looking at a "kinder, gentler, freer MOFIB"?

And meanwhile the finances of MOFIB, the members money and contributions that are actually supposed to pay for the website's ongoing maintenance in the first place, have quietly vanished into the ether...

 

[Anonymous]

Just offering what I said was my opinion. Thanks for yours. If you ever want to discuss this with me, shoot me a pm.

 

[mpedersen]

Just offering what I said was my opinion. Thanks for yours. If you ever want to discuss this with me, shoot me a pm.

I would far prefer that the people involved past and present had an OPEN AND TRANSPARENT discussion. All this closed-doors behind-the-scenes nonsense is part and parcel of the problems in the first place. And all you've done today is make some quite alarming insinuations and attempt to disclaim yourself from any responsibility for your past actions to this point. So no, you won't be receiving a "pm" from me to "discuss this". 23 pages of history went straight back to the original problem and ironically, the original heist of the website, while seemingly the problem was in fact only indicative of a greater cultural problem that even to this day I fail to understand. Luis was involved from day one and culpable from day one - even if he is a "figurehead", he has welcomed and embraced this latest round of BS with open arms.

 

[Ummfish]

Private forums. The culture of secrecy among what was supposed to be a member-owned organization was the root of the problem. It made it impossible for the members to see what was being done in their name.

I mean, I'm fine with people having small, private, informal discussions to bat ideas around. But anything more formal should have been where everyone could see it. Otherwise, how could the members possibly judge whether their board members were doing a good job.

 

[Anonymous]

I learned a lot from MOFIB in my short experience with it, but most of that I learned after I left. I found out this summer the most important real person in my life has a terminal disease, and I have a limited time to spend with him. Now, I realize the time wasted on arguing and competing with virtual people really is valuable time wasted. I learned I can interact with people on the www the same as I do in person. I don't have to allow people in my life that don't enhance my life, I can hang out with people who do make life better. When I use the internet to connect with people, while wasting time at work or at a MD appointment, I can bring people into my life of my choosing. I have the power of the block.

I think it is possible that I am old enough to be your mother, so I am going to give you some advice. Take it or leave it, I care not. At this point, you are only hurting yourself with this vendetta. I don't know what has happened at MOFIB, but I do know it does not matter who is to blame, who is the best and brightest breeder, who has the credit for creating it, who is the "benevolent dictator". It doesn't matter if MOFIB, MBI, Reef Central,RDO, etc,etc,etc rules the virtual reef kingdom. It doesn't matter which website has the most people, the most advertisers, who is the most popular. It doesn't matter where people connect.

It does matter what others think of you, because that will be incorporated in how you think of yourself. It does matter how you interact with people because they will "block" you from their lives. Virtual people may become real people, and you may learn from others. No one knows everything, about every subject, about every issue.

You will find out what really matters later in life when those things begin to fade away.

You now have a choice. You can continue to waste energy bashing MOFIB, which comes off to virtual people as a very counter productive. Or you can use MOFIB to promote yourself in a productive way. Or you can walk away completely, and interact in other places. But, you can rebuild your reputation as a person. Right now, new people just entering the advanced portion of the hobby have no idea of your history. Build your reputation as a brilliant breeder who is also nice guy.

I am going to go back to posting on MOFIB, because I do not have to play in the drama anymore. No more elections. No more accusations. No more power struggles. At least, not for me. That was my choice.

It has been interesting virtually knowing you, Matt. Maybe one day we can meet in person. If you are ever in SLC, I would love to buy you a beer and show you the cool parts of our town. There actually are some here....Donut falls is breathtaking, and gravity hill is amazing.....

 

[Ummfish]

Again, Suzy, you were the director. It was your job to get up to speed on the history of the organization when you took the chair. The history was all there to read in the directors' forums. You didn't read it and then you backed the wrong ponies. It's really not a huge shock that they turned on you. They've done it over and over again. Take some responsibility.

 

[[email protected]]

I'll take responsibility. I backed the ONLY ponies. Within four months after I was elected, the board was non-existent, with the exception of Suzy. The option of going to just a forum had been presented and was in the works, but nobody wanted to let anyone else have control. Now the organization is dead, and much of the content is damaged, along with a complete loss of reputation. The decision to spend tons of money on a move to Texas was not mine, nor Suzy's, and we couldn't make anyone understand why it didn't need to be expensive and complicated. Once that decision had been made, by majority of the board at the time, Suzy worked hard to make it happen, as directed. Oh, until it was decided by a non-board that MOFIB would do something I had proposed earlier, simply returning to just a forum. Luis was chosen as most responsible (don't know why, I was no longer a member) and after a non-board met, and an absolutely nonexistent board (No elected positions) conducted a vote, there are two separate groups. One that's dead and a forum that's also currently dead.

Although they're up to about 8 posts a week now!

Not sure how much I'll bother with the "New Era" of MOFIB. I'd still love to see it work. I have no desire to moderate it ever again, just to exchange information. If there is anyone to exchange it with.

Jeff

 

[Ummfish]

But, again, that's a tactic that John and co. have used over and over and over. If they didn't like what was happening, they would refuse to do anything. It was there in all the past threads. Suzy _bragged_ at one point about not reading any of it, saying she didn't want to get involved with the past. My point is, given that it was all there to see then it should have been something that could be prepared for. That was the job, right?

 

[[email protected]]

And meanwhile the finances of MOFIB, the members money and contributions that are actually supposed to pay for the website's ongoing maintenance in the first place, have quietly vanished into the ether...

Actually, they didn't. They were spent. $700+ on an aborted move to Texas, mostly attorney's fees since nobody actually paid the filing fees, and hundreds more on an enterprise class web server infrastructure for a site with 70 users (about 30 paid members) and a low enough traffic demand that my cell phone would handle it.

These expenses were approved by an almost-full BOD. They also depleted the funding to a balance low enough that Andy was soliciting personal donations from board members (and may have paid some expenses out of pocket, I paid the domain registrations out of mine...).

I'm not privy to how Luis handles, or intends to handle, finances but I wish him well if he starts to seek donations. I also have no idea how financial accounts for MOFIB were disposed of, or if they have been. I do know that community, and manufacturer, support is basically nil.

Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

OK, Andy. I will accept responsibility. It is my fault. I know it is important to have someone to blame. You were also a director.

Jeff, my new thread got 6 posts all by itself! The new MOFIB is on a roll! Will you keep in touch somewhere? If you find a good place to talk breeding, let me know?

 

[[email protected]]

My point is, given that it was all there to see then it should have been something that could be prepared for. That was the job, right?

It was prepared for. And dealt with, to the best of my. and Suzy's, ability. How do you suggest it should have been handled?

The bottom line is that the organization, and the forums, became a political battlefield several years ago. Multiple people tried, unsuccessfully, to fix it. Each tried their best, with the ways they thought possible. Perhaps this version will work. Perhaps not. Time will tell.

Jeff

 

[[email protected]]

You were also a director.

Andy was? Or Andy?

Yeah, it's all a blur. But I think you might be mistaking Andy Rhyne and Andy Berry. Andy Rhyne was on the BOD with us, Andy Berry was prior to that, same board as Carl (I think... ?). I never dealt with Andy Berry at MOFIB, other than in the forums. That I remember anyway. So maybe he was a dictator. Many seem to have been.

Although I may be assuming that Andy/UmmFish here is the same Andy Berry from MASC. That's correct, right Andy? No, the other Andy. Yeah, that's the one.

Jeff

 

[bookfish]

OK, Andy. I will accept responsibility. It is my fault. I know it is important to have someone to blame. You were also a director.

Jeff, my new thread got 6 posts all by itself! The new MOFIB is on a roll! Will you keep in touch somewhere? If you find a good place to talk breeding, let me know?

Do you accept responsibility for all the unfriendly and negative remarks you made to people without actually knowing what you were talking about? How old does one have to be to outgrow such behavior? Now that you see that your perspective was wrong, will you finally apologize?

 

[mpedersen]

http://www.marinebreeder.org/forums/vie ... 71&t=10974

The utter incompetence is staggering.

Tami - "If I understand things, the MOFIB organization still exists and is still controlled by a BOD, but ownership of the website was given to Luis to curate as a separate, distinct entity from MOFIB. Luis, is that the gist of it?"

Luis - "Yes, but on behalf of the members."

Suzy - " So,the mofib org still is part of the website, and the new owners don't have to have elections. "

Luis - "You can ask them there about elections or their plans for the next years But there are no "new owners",just the same BOD who were your peers until your resignation."

So an unknown (because no one knows who's actually ON the BOD anymore with so many resignations and take it backs) and currently illegitimate BOD (Because they failed to hold their elections for BOD positions this year but clearly showed no problems in actually holding a vote->) held a random election to give the website to a private member (against bylaws, potentialy against the law itself) and we now learn that this private member is to "curate" the website separate from MOFIB, yet MOFIB is still part of the website and there are in actuality no "new owners", so that begs the question - did ANYTHING actually really change at all?

If I read this right, is sounds like MOFIB the org hasn't divested the website at all, but has used Luis as a puppet / appointed figurehead to act as the leader? Meanwhile, the organization lives on, apparently maybe actually still owns the website yet wants everyone to think that Luis does, and may or may not have elections in the future?

I think it bears asking yet again questions like "what happened with all the money?" and "who is the BOD at this time?" The latter, according to the website, "MOFIB's current Board of Directors includes Dr. Andrew Rhyne (President), Dr. John Lauth (treasurer), Vince Rado (Vice President), Suzy Applegarth (Secretary), William Heaton and Jeff Cockran." Clearly, Suzy's resignation is not contended as it's publicly acknowledged above, and it would outwardly appear that Jeff would like us to believe he has no clear involvement. William Heaton and John Lauth could certainly be behind this move, and heck, to be clear, John Lauth withheld assets from the org all those years prior demanding access to MOFIB's bank account..and I see now that at least publicly, he "has it". So John Lauth, what the hell happened to all of MOFIB's MONEY?

It is in everyone's best interest to avoid MOFIB like the plague that it is. I didn't incorporate it so it could result in years of power struggles and backstabbing to ultimately squander resources, alienate legions of active members, and wind up in the hands of the two other initial board members (besides MYSELF) as their own private fiefdom. People may feel the never ending condemnation is "bitter"...hell yes I am. People ruined a fantastic thing over their own egos. Well-intentioned people again and again, to no discredit, tried to come in with an open mind, and yet one after another they found themselves faced with entrenched toxicity and by the time they realized what needed to be done, they failed to have the power to act. My name was dragged through the mud more than a monster truck on Friday night at the arena, and yet I was "GONE" from the organization years ago.

In the end, instead of being a unifying force that motivated positive developments, MOFIB's demise reminded the greater world at large as to why "HOBBYISTS" should be kept at "arms length" when it comes to collaborating with aquarium professionals. MOFIB wound up being a textbook example what is wrong with aquarium organizations. If aquarium clubs around the world can learn from the mistakes of MOFIB, well then maybe there's hope, but no, I lost a lot of faith in the general, unnamed "hobbyist" seeing how MOFIB's history bore out.

 

[[email protected]]

I think it bears asking yet again questions like "what happened with all the money?" and "who is the BOD at this time?" The latter, according to the website, "MOFIB's current Board of Directors includes Dr. Andrew Rhyne (President), Dr. John Lauth (treasurer), Vince Rado (Vice President), Suzy Applegarth (Secretary), William Heaton and Jeff Cockran." Clearly, Suzy's resignation is not contended as it's publicly acknowledged above, and it would outwardly appear that Jeff would like us to believe he has no clear involvement.

There are a number of web sites that claim Elvis is still alive and the Apollo 11 moon landing never happened too. If I were on the board, I'd at least fix the spelling of my name.

Matt, you're better than the whining and sour grapes. Concentrate on the future and stop complaining about what you perceive is happening outside your control. Get back to research and what you're good at.

Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

OK, Andy. I will accept responsibility. It is my fault. I know it is important to have someone to blame. You were also a director.

Jeff, my new thread got 6 posts all by itself! The new MOFIB is on a roll! Will you keep in touch somewhere? If you find a good place to talk breeding, let me know?

Do you accept responsibility for all the unfriendly and negative remarks you made to people without actually knowing what you were talking about? How old does one have to be to outgrow such behavior? Now that you see that your perspective was wrong, will you finally apologize?

Well, of course, Mr Bookfish. Please accept my extremely sincere and uber huge apology for any virtual psychological trauma I caused to you grown men....Was it my push to get you to get together, drink beer and talk things out that offended you?

It is interesting to see how others interpret the same situation. I actually feel you know nothing about what is going on at MOFIB, that you were used just like I was. But, you say I know nothing. Weird how people can see only a partial part of something, and come to polar opposite conclusions.

At this point, I am wondering how I can work this to my advantage. I hate looking back and see how I was manipulated. I made a lot of great threads, and the "new" owners of mofib can edit everything I write to make it look like I support the new mofib, even though behind the public forum, they stab me in the back...

I guess Rdo is good for something. .

 

[bookfish]

Thank you for responding. What I found unfortunate was that you decided to take sides without understanding the context or history of the situation. I was not targeted but found your condescending, judgmental and unfriendly posts to be shameful, especially coming from a BOD member. The fact that you couldn't even consider the idea that there were 2 or more sides to the story is also unfortunate. You were a BOD member at a time when MOFIB would have benefited from a reasonable and openminded BOD member but you chose to be neither. My history with MOFIB pre-dates yours by many years and I do know many of the issues that were involved (many of which were only brought to light in threads that were later removed/ quarantined/ buried etc...). I'm sorry you ended up feeling you were deceived but that is after all why we don't believe everything we're told till we check it out for ourselves (and we certainly don't go on the attack without a full review of the situation). I am also old and it saddens me to see people who SHOULD be old enough to act like adults behaving like children