Cree LED light write-up

[sharkbait69]

thanks for the reply. Whats the spread for one fixture? How many would you or someone guess for a 72 inch long 24 wide tank?
what the electrical draw vs 3 150 watt mh

 

[smoq]

do you recommend the q5 or the xp g r5 leds?

If we are talking about cree xr-e q5 vs. cree xp-g r5 I would definetely choose the latter- they are newer technology, have higher lumen output at thesame wattage and can be driven at higher currents.

I used the arctic aluminum to glue the star to the headsink. I had the experience first hand in removing the star. It is not hard at all with a sharp edged chisel. I got the chisel under any visible gap between the star and the heatsink and a gentle twist of the hand, it popped right off. Don't even need a hammer. The majority of the glue remains on the star rather than the heatsink for some reasons.

That's good to know for someone who doesn't want to mess with drill and tapping kit. Thanks for info.

thanks for the reply. Whats the spread for one fixture? How many would you or someone guess for a 72 inch long 24 wide tank?
what the electrical draw vs 3 150 watt mh

You must know that I've never build led for tank that big, but from what I observed in my as well as other peoples tanks is that 24 leds without optics or with optics not narrower than 80 degrees is plenty to cover 2' of tank length (for tanks less than let's say 24" wide). You may add one row of 4 leds for each 24" but then you either need one additional driver or you have to find one that can drive more than 12 leds in a string. In your case (72x24" tank) I would do 5 rows x 6 leds each which gives you 30 leds for each 2' of your aquarium.

Something like this

xoxoxo
oxoxox
xoxoxo
oxoxox
xoxoxo
​

where "X" are white leds and "O" are blue leds

Problem here is when it comes to drivers. You have three choices:
a) drive each section of 30 leds with three meanwell drivers and don't care that one string will have ony 6 leds
b) add one more row of leds to total of 36 diodes and use all your meanwell power (that will be A LOT of light and I would consider spacing them closer together, like 1.5", using 60 degree optics and dimming them according to your light needs
c) driving two string with meanwell and one with buckpuck but with that option you'll need an additional power supply for the buckpuck drivers

So let's say you go with option 1, 30 leds for every 2' of your tank which wil give you 90 cree leds total, each driven at full power- 90x3W=270W power consumption. Of course this is inadequate, you need to count in drivers' heat loss, fans and other things, but I would say that unit won't suck more than 300W vs 450W of metal halides (and additional 500W for chilling this beast

 

[btldreef]

how do you figure out how many 3w leds are needed? i think i have read somewhere that 250w halides = 160w of leds. does that formula sound correct? since i am currently running 3 x 250w halides and the growth of my sps is doing great i don't want to jeopardize that and yet i don't want to overpower them.

i think i am going to go with what qy7400 said already... the 48 led count. i just want confirmation before i purchase and build my first of three led fixtures.

 

[qy7400]

A lot of good info in this thread http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/equipment/70719-leds-good-bad-just-another-addiction.html

If you look at the commercial units the common theme for a 24x24 grid is 54 LED (Pacific Sun and AI) Acan uses 63 3W I believe.

 

[Rapid LED]

how do you figure out how many 3w leds are needed? i think i have read somewhere that 250w halides = 160w of leds. does that formula sound correct? since i am currently running 3 x 250w halides and the growth of my sps is doing great i don't want to jeopardize that and yet i don't want to overpower them.

i think i am going to go with what qy7400 said already... the 48 led count. i just want confirmation before i purchase and build my first of three led fixtures.

It depends on which exact model of LED you're referring to but generally we tell people that 24 CREE XR-E LEDs (assuming 50/50 royal blue/cool white) are about equivalent to a 250W MH. So in that case it's actually 72W worth of LEDs, but they aren't all being driven at max power so in reality it's probably closer to 60W or so.

 

[wld1783]

smog

Outstanding DIY Nice work.


btldreef

As far as number of LEDs I hope this partial copy of a previous post helps.

I like to see around 250-400 PAR for my corals here is a a fixture I built for a friend and some PAR measurements with and with out optics. It covers a 36"x24" footprint with awesome shimmer.

The Heatsink is a 24? x 8.46? from HeatsinkUSA. The LED strips are 6 XR-E Royal Blue/White and 4 XRE Royal Blue. The drivers are MeanWell 60-48D. The four Royal Blue strips are driven at full power (at 9 volts appx 580mA) in 2 parallel series of 12 LEDs. The other Royal Blue/White Strips are driven by a single MeanWell 60-48D adjusted to 750mA at 9Vdc

The drivers were adjusted and the input voltage was provided by a Radio Shack Enercell. Par was measured 24? above the fixture center mass and 24? centered but 12 ? to the side. The meter was an Quantum Flux Apogee meter MQ-200. Watts were measured with the common KillaWatt meter.

No Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?..........PAR@24?..........Watts
Volts DC.........Center Mass........Center + 12?

9......................214....................142.................186
7.5....................180...................128..................162
6.......................152...................100.................124
4.5....................104....................82....................84
3.......................78.....................58....................49
1.5.....................32.....................22...................21

70 Degree Optics

9..........................432...................170..................186
7.5........................348...................158..................162
6..........................301...................140..................124
4.5........................262...................95....................84
3..........................171....................65....................49
1.5........................74.....................30....................21

Based on my testing with a PAR meter I feel 48 Cree XR-Es on a 24" heatsink is closest to a 250 watt MH.

LEDs rock but to be honest they dont have the spread a MH does with a good reflector. At the end of the day LEDs are much more efficient and cost effective. Rapid LED numbers are correct but for a smaller footprint than a 250 MH using a Reefflux or spider light reflector.

Lots of options.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

[wld1783]

how do you figure out how many 3w leds are needed? i think i have read somewhere that 250w halides = 160w of leds. does that formula sound correct? since i am currently running 3 x 250w halides and the growth of my sps is doing great i don't want to jeopardize that and yet i don't want to overpower them.

i think i am going to go with what qy7400 said already... the 48 led count. i just want confirmation before i purchase and build my first of three led fixtures.

smog

Very nice build!!! I really like the housing and how you did the drivers.

btldreef

Rapid Led is correct on the equivalent light but the spread is off. LEDs rock but they dont have the same spread as MH using a Luminax or Spiderlight reflector. Here is a partial copy of a post I did elsewhere which might put some light on how many LEDs...Please excuse the pun:spin:

I really like to see 250-400 PAR on my corals.

The Heatsink is a 24? x 8.46? from HeatsinkUSA. The LED strips are 6 XR-E Royal Blue/White and 4 XRE Royal Blue. The drivers are MeanWell 60-48D. The four Royal Blue strips are driven at full power (at 9 volts appx 580mA) in 2 parallel series of 12 LEDs. The other Royal Blue/White Strips are driven by a single MeanWell 60-48D adjusted to 750mA at 9Vdc

No Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?..........PAR@24?..........Watts
Volts DC.........Center Mass........Center + 12?

9......................214....................142.................186
7.5....................180...................128..................162
6.......................152...................100.................124
4.5....................104....................82....................84
3.......................78.....................58....................49
1.5.....................32.....................22...................21

70 Degree Optics

9..........................432...................170..................186
7.5........................348...................158..................162
6..........................301...................140..................124
4.5........................262...................95....................84
3..........................171....................65....................49
1.5........................74.....................30....................21

With all things considered I think 48 XR-E LEDs driven at 700mA with optics would be close to a 250 watt MH when places on a 24" heatsink. 60 like this is the same as a 400 watt Radium.

Bill

 

[wld1783]

It depends on which exact model of LED you're referring to but generally we tell people that 24 CREE XR-E LEDs (assuming 50/50 royal blue/cool white) are about equivalent to a 250W MH. So in that case it's actually 72W worth of LEDs, but they aren't all being driven at max power so in reality it's probably closer to 60W or so.

With 24 LEDs Cree XR-E say a 1:1 mix of Cool White and Royal Blue driven at 700mA what coverage are you considering.... The same coverage and PAR as a 10K XM using a spider light reflector?

When you say only 24 LEDs are about equivalent to a 250W MH what optics and how are they driven as there are lots of variables?

Bill

 

[wonderballz]

Has anyone tried the cold heat soldering irons for this job? I wonder if they would make it easier. I just read this link and the main complaint seems to be that the tip breaks if you use too much pressure

 

[smoq]

Has anyone tried the cold heat soldering irons for this job? I wonder if they would make it easier. I just read this link and the main complaint seems to be that the tip breaks if you use too much pressure

I've heard that cold soldering won't work because cold solder iron won't be able to melt solder on a star mounted to heatsink.

 

[wonderballz]

I see. Are we pre tinning the leds before attaching to heatsink? then attach to heat sink and then solder wires?

 

[Rapid LED]

With 24 LEDs Cree XR-E say a 1:1 mix of Cool White and Royal Blue driven at 700mA what coverage are you considering.... The same coverage and PAR as a 10K XM using a spider light reflector?

When you say only 24 LEDs are about equivalent to a 250W MH what optics and how are they driven as there are lots of variables?

Bill

Usually we measure our LEDs with 60 degree optics, and driven at 700mA with MW drivers. You're right in that there are tons of variables (ie. optic choice, height above water, LED, driver, etc), which is why we are only giving rough parameters based on our own readings as well as what our customers have told us. Figuring out how many LEDs are equivalent to MH's to us is more of an art than a science at this point, so we're just trying to share any advice we've learned from working with LEDs on a daily basis.

If you have different PAR readings or points of view we'd love to hear it as the more information is passed along the better off the entire industry will be, in our opinion.

 

[wld1783]

Usually we measure our LEDs with 60 degree optics, and driven at 700mA with MW drivers. You're right in that there are tons of variables (ie. optic choice, height above water, LED, driver, etc), which is why we are only giving rough parameters based on our own readings as well as what our customers have told us. Figuring out how many LEDs are equivalent to MH's to us is more of an art than a science at this point, so we're just trying to share any advice we've learned from working with LEDs on a daily basis.

If you have different PAR readings or points of view we'd love to hear it as the more information is passed along the better off the entire industry will be, in our opinion.

Here are some hard numbers I did with a 60 LED build I did recently for a friend. I tried to post the info earlier but maybe the pics were to big

The Fixture is a 24” x 8.46” from HeatsinkUSA. I used 12" LED Strips instead of individual stars for a cleaner look and a lot less work soldering. The LED strips are 6 XR-E Royal Blue/White and 4 XRE Royal Blue. The total number of XR-E LEDs are 60. The drivers are MeanWell 60-48D. The four Royal Blue strips are driven at full power (at 9 volts appx 580mA) in 2 parallel series of 12 LEDs. The other Royal Blue/White Strips are driven by a single MeanWell 60-48D adjusted to 750mA at 9Vdc

The drivers were adjusted and the input voltage was provided by a Radio Shack Enercell. Par was measured 24” above the fixture center mass and 24” centered but 12 “ to the side. The meter was an Quantum Flux Apogee meter MQ-200. Watts were measured with the common KillaWatt meter.

This arrangement should cover an area between 30-36L and 24-30W

No Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24”........PAR@24”........Watts
Volts DC..........Center Mass....Center + 12”

9........................214................142... ...........186
7.5.....................180................128.... ..........162
6........................155................100... ...........124
4.5.....................104.................82.... ...........84
3........................78..................58... ............49
1.5.....................32...................22... ............21


60 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24”........ PAR@24”........ Watts
Volts DC...........Center Mass.....Center + 12”

9........................355................150... ............186
7.5.....................310................131.... ............162
6........................242................78.... .............124
4.5.....................202................66..... .............84
3........................131................43.... ..............49
1.5......................60.................18.... ..............21

70 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24”........PAR@24”........Watts
Volts DC...........Center Mass...Center + 12”

9........................432...............170.... ............186
7.5.....................348...............158..... ...........162
6........................301...............140.... ............124
4.5.....................262...............95...... ............84
3........................171...............65..... .............49
1.5.....................74.................30..... .............21


80 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24”........PAR@24”........Watts
Volts DC..........Center Mass....Center + 12”

9.......................330................183.... ............186
7.5....................292................174..... ...........162
6.......................254................143.... ............124
4.5....................190................109..... ...........84
3.......................125................53..... ............49
1.5....................56..................33..... ............21

 

[JonnyIce]

Smoq YGPM my man!

 

[smoq]

I see. Are we pre tinning the leds before attaching to heatsink? then attach to heat sink and then solder wires?

Usually what you want to do is attach all leds to the heatsink before soldering, that make things a lot easier and it's harder to make a mistake that way. Then pre-tin your wire (this is very important part, don't skip this). You could also melt some solder on the cree stars but be careful not to heat up the star for too long. Then you get close with the wire, heat the star soldering point and dip the tip of the wire in it.

BTW for all- I was thinking of making a series of DIY videos of how to solder, connect, test and stuff like that. I need some burned crees for that, has anyone have some?

 

[wld1783]

Usually what you want to do is attach all leds to the heatsink before soldering, that make things a lot easier and it's harder to make a mistake that way. Then pre-tin your wire (this is very important part, don't skip this). You could also melt some solder on the cree stars but be careful not to heat up the star for too long. Then you get close with the wire, heat the star soldering point and dip the tip of the wire in it.

BTW for all- I was thinking of making a series of DIY videos of how to solder, connect, test and stuff like that. I need some burned crees for that, has anyone have some?

+1

I was thinking of doing the same, then a friend asked me to build a 6 foot fixture with a housing to replace 3 250 watt MH fixture that was simply too hot and heating up his tank. Plan on doing the same with a complete build.

smog

I only have 12 bad ones as they seem pretty reliable as long as you dont
connect a live, plugged in driver to them...Mitch...:irked:

They are on a heatsink but a quick tap w chisel will pop them off. Toss me a PM if you want them.

Bill

 

[smoq]

+1

I was thinking of doing the same, then a friend asked me to build a 6 foot fixture with a housing to replace 3 250 watt MH fixture that was simply too hot and heating up his tank. Plan on doing the same with a complete build.

smog

I only have 12 bad ones as they seem pretty reliable as long as you dont
connect a live, plugged in driver to them...Mitch...:irked:

They are on a heatsink but a quick tap w chisel will pop them off. Toss me a PM if you want them.

Bill

I don't really care, I just need them to show people how to solder them. They can be on a piece of heatsink if you don't need it or you can pop them off. Will you be able to throw them in an envelope and send to me?

 

[wld1783]

I don't really care, I just need them to show people how to solder them. They can be on a piece of heatsink if you don't need it or you can pop them off. Will you be able to throw them in an envelope and send to me?

Will Do. Toss me a pm with an address.

Bill

 

[ming]

Interesting that the 70 degree optics were the strongest. Are you sure they are 70 degree? Also, is perhaps the 60 degree frosted or hazed lens as well? Its just that I expected the 60 degree to be more stronger then the 70 degree. I also haven't seen 70 degree optics available.

Here are some hard numbers I did with a 60 LED build I did recently for a friend. I tried to post the info earlier but maybe the pics were to big

The Fixture is a 24? x 8.46? from HeatsinkUSA. I used 12" LED Strips instead of individual stars for a cleaner look and a lot less work soldering. The LED strips are 6 XR-E Royal Blue/White and 4 XRE Royal Blue. The total number of XE-E LEDs are 60. The drivers are MeanWell 60-48D. The four Royal Blue strips are driven at full power (at 9 volts appx 580mA) in 2 parallel series of 12 LEDs. The other Royal Blue/White Strips are driven by a single MeanWell 60-48D adjusted to 750mA at 9Vdc

The drivers were adjusted and the input voltage was provided by a Radio Shack Enercell. Par was measured 24? above the fixture center mass and 24? centered but 12 ? to the side. The meter was an Quantum Flux Apogee meter MQ-200. Watts were measured with the common KillaWatt meter.

This arrangement should cover an area between 30-36L and 24-30W

No Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?........PAR@24?........Watts
Volts DC..........Center Mass....Center + 12?

9........................214................142... ...........186
7.5.....................180................128.... ..........162
6........................155................100... ...........124
4.5.....................104.................82.... ...........84
3........................78..................58... ............49
1.5.....................32...................22... ............21


60 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?........ PAR@24?........ Watts
Volts DC...........Center Mass.....Center + 12?

9........................355................150... ............186
7.5.....................310................131.... ............162
6........................242................78.... .............124
4.5.....................202................66..... .............84
3........................131................43.... ..............49
1.5......................60.................18.... ..............21

70 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?........PAR@24?........Watts
Volts DC...........Center Mass...Center + 12?

9........................432...............170.... ............186
7.5.....................348...............158..... ...........162
6........................301...............140.... ............124
4.5.....................262...............95...... ............84
3........................171...............65..... .............49
1.5.....................74.................30..... .............21


80 Degree Optics

Driver Input........PAR@24?........PAR@24?........Watts
Volts DC..........Center Mass....Center + 12?

9.......................330................183.... ............186
7.5....................292................174..... ...........162
6.......................254................143.... ............124
4.5....................190................109..... ...........84
3.......................125................53..... ............49
1.5....................56..................33..... ............21

 

[Boomer]

Nice post guys just saw this