New 75 gallon start up

theMeat

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if he leaves the lights off now, what will happen when he turns them on ? what is absorbing the phosphate from the tap water while the lights are off?
it doesn't just disappear overtime. unless of course he doesn't run lights over his tank ever. just common sense, he needs nutrients. he doesn't need excessive phosphate that comes with with tap water
If he has a fuge, which I heard no mention of, then he can leave the fuge light running. Either way leave tank lights off while cycle spikes. When cycle is complete do a water change and good to go
 

theMeat

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The goal of the nitrogen cycle consists of 2 primary parts: you want to culture the bacteria that convert ammonia (NH3 and NH4) into nitrite (NO2) and then you want to culture the bacteria that converts that converted nitrite (NO2) into nitrate (NO3). The nutrients you speak of in tap water (namely phosphates (PO4) and nitrate (NO3)) will culture organisms (other bacteria species including cyano and algae) that have nothing to do with the bacteria species you want to culture to "cycle" your tank. Don't worry, they're going to bloom once the cycle is over anyway :)

Plus, I want to reiterate that tap water contains copper and lead as well as these "nutrients". Which will ALL be present in your system until they are diluted to natural seawater levels (an order of several 1000-10000x less than the concentration in tap water in NYC).

Please do not use tap water within your reef system at all.
there is copper and lead in natural seawater. Using NYC tap water for the cycle is in no way a problem.

My 220 was filled with tap water from LI at start up. At around 160 ppm contaminates. That was 21 months ago. Have done one water change, and not because nutrients went up, but for trace elements. Pretty well stocked and fed, humming along fine.
 

CJRIZZOTTI

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If he has a fuge, which I heard no mention of, then he can leave the fuge light running. Either way leave tank lights off while cycle spikes. When cycle is complete do a water change and good to go
I have a current ramp timer pro led light system

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theMeat

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No refugium i use the berlin method i have a aqueon proflex sump with aquaC urchin S protien skimmer

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Yup. Leave light off while cycle is spiking to avoid algae taking hold. Did you watch video I posted?

You will see ammonia spike, then quickly come down as nitrites start to spike. Then nitrites will fall as nitrates rise. These fall quick so if you're not testing regularly you could miss it. Next and finally you'll see nitrates rise. Nitrates will not come down quick and you'll need to do a water change if it levels off above 10-15ppm. Then put lights on and skimmer and start adding stock slowly.
 

CJRIZZOTTI

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Yup. Leave light off while cycle is spiking to avoid algae taking hold. Did you watch video I posted?

You will see ammonia spike, then quickly come down as nitrites start to spike. Then nitrites will fall as nitrates rise. These fall quick so if you're not testing regularly you could miss it. Next and finally you'll see nitrates rise. Nitrates will not come down quick and you'll need to do a water change if it levels off above 10-15ppm. Then put lights on and skimmer and start adding stock slowly.
Send the video in a message must've missed it

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jck16

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there is copper and lead in natural seawater. Using NYC tap water for the cycle is in no way a problem.

My 220 was filled with tap water from LI at start up. At around 160 ppm contaminates. That was 21 months ago. Have done one water change, and not because nutrients went up, but for trace elements. Pretty well stocked and fed, humming along fine.
Re-reading my original post, I thought I had done a better job implying that lead, copper, phosphates, nitrates, etc. are all present in natural seawater but at extremely low concentrations several 100-1000x less than that found in tap water. Maybe not.

I really don't think it's fair to CJRIZOTTI, who is trying to start off their tank based on advice from strangers, to hear an opinion that has no scientific basis other than a single anecdote (yours).

Here's an example: the EPA considers the maximum level of copper in drinking water to be 1.3mg/L. In a 75 gallon system, if NYC/LI tapwater is about that concentration, that equates to a total of 369.08mg of copper present. The average natural concentration of copper in the oceans is 0.00025mg/L according to one source. In a 75 gallon system, that should equate to a TOTAL of 0.071mg of copper. In other words, you are introducing 5198.31x the amount of copper present in seawater by using tapwater.

And that's just copper alone. If our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from (it is), then someone who sets up their system using tap water has already failed to do that. Just something to think about.
 
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theMeat

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Re-reading my original post, I thought I had done a better job implying that lead, copper, phosphates, nitrates, etc. are all present in natural seawater but at extremely low concentrations several 100-1000x less than that found in tap water. Maybe not.

I really don't think it's fair to CJRIZOTTI, who is trying to start off their tank based on advice from strangers, to hear an opinion that has no scientific basis other than a single anecdote (yours).

Here's an example: the EPA considers the maximum level of copper in drinking water to be 1.3mg/L. In a 75 gallon system, if NYC/LI tapwater is about that concentration, that equates to a total of 369.08mg of copper present. The average natural concentration of copper in the oceans is 0.00025mg/L according to one source. In a 75 gallon system, that should equate to a TOTAL of 0.071mg of copper. In other words, you are introducing 5198.31x the amount of copper present in seawater by using tapwater.

And that's just copper alone. If our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from (it is), then someone who sets up their system using tap water has already failed to do that. Just something to think about.
You sound really smart but....
Explaining the nitrogen cycle. Really?
Drama much? You're playing with words. You research the levels of copper in tap water and share what is the epa's maximum level of copper allowed, and set that as your standard for copper in your "example". Then the math you did for omg drama. Really? When the truth is that's the level, 1.3mg/L, at which the epa says you must treat to get it lower. And the fact of the matter is nyc tap water is .007. So, for drama, " if our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from" or, whatever you said before about not being fair to op by giving bad advice, than you should have advised him to ad copper to the tap water to get it the .071 that most seawater contains.
Yes, I checked it, and you. Thought maybe I should. Thought maybe I've been paying attention and doing it wrong for decades anyway. And maybe just got lucky again and again.

Now stop with the drama and stick around, you may learn something
 
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theMeat

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Just my suggestion: leave the live sand, drain all the CONTAMINATED water above it, and refill with RODI + salt.

There will be a lot of things that just happen to be out of your control in a closed system like a reef tank. Why make the contents of the water you're adding to it one of them?

As for skimming during the cycle, I honestly don't think it matters unless you're using fresh rock from the ocean where a number of organisms continuously die off which will slow down the nitrogen cycle simply because the decay will cause less dissolved oxygen for the aerobic nitrifying bacteria to use to thrive. You'll be doing a large water change after the cycle anyway to remove any other compounds that may have built up during the cycle and to replenish depleted ions (I'm in the camp of not doing any water changes during the cycle unless you made the mistake of adding in livestock before the cycle was complete).
You are suggesting 2 conflicting ideas. If you're cleaning, curing, whatever you want to call it, the live rock to put into an already cycled tank than yes you should run the skimmer. But live rock's die off will only fuel the cycle and help it complete. Running the skimmer will take out what you need to complete the cycle. You could take a piss in the tank and that would help start the cycle. The best thing to do with live rock from the ocean, when cycling a new tank, is to blow it off with a turkey Baster or the likes every few day, week or so.

Althou I'd recommend using dried rock because then there's no danger of adding pests, and your not paying for water because rock is sold by the pound. Would also recommend rinsing the rock, live or dry, as good as possible before it goes into the tank.
 
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CJRIZZOTTI

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You are suggesting 2 conflicting ideas. If you're cleaning, curing, whatever you want to call it, the live rock to put into an already cycled tank than yes you should run the skimmer. But live rock's die off will only fuel the cycle and help it complete. Running the skimmer will take out what you need to complete the cycle. You could take a piss in the tank and that would help start the cycle. The best thing to do with live rock from the ocean, when cycling a new tank, is to blow it off with a turkey Baster or the likes every few day, week or so.

Althou I'd recommend using dried rock because then there's no danger of adding pests, and your not paying for water because rock is sold by the pound. Would also recommend rinsing the rock, live or dry, as good as possible before it goes into the tank.
I'm using caribsea life Rock def not from the sea just dried rock painted with bacteria so they say but still dried rock none the less

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jck16

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You sound really smart but....
Explaining the nitrogen cycle. Really?
Drama much? You're playing with words. You research the levels of copper in tap water and share what is the epa's maximum level of copper allowed, and set that as your standard for copper in your "example". Then the math you did for omg drama. Really? When the truth is that's the level, 1.3mg/L, at which the epa says you must treat to get it lower. And the fact of the matter is nyc tap water is .007. So, for drama, " if our goal when setting up our tanks is to duplicate as best we can the environment our critters come from" or, whatever you said before about not being fair to op by giving bad advice, than you should have advised him to ad copper to the tap water to get it the .071 that most seawater contains.
Yes, I checked it, and you. Thought maybe I should. Thought maybe I've been paying attention and doing it wrong for decades anyway. And maybe just got lucky again and again.

Now stop with the drama and stick around, you may learn something
Why are you so desperate to defend tap water? Your argument against mine now is venturing into attacking me personally, so this will be my last post to you.

I'm glad you researched to contest my argument. Good. Yes, NYC copper levels in the municipal supply are much lower at 0.007 mg/L. But seawater has a copper concentration of 0.00025 mg/L; you pulled that 0.071mg figure to make your argument, but that was the total mass of copper that should be present in his system. In other words, you are still looking at 28x the amount of copper level of seawater in an equivalent volume of NYC tap water.

There was a study that showed 50% of sea urchin larvae start to die off at 0.006 mg/L of copper in the water, which is still less than the concentration of copper in the water supply in NYC. And our water is pretty good too compared to most municipal waters. Just sayin.

So don't use tap water. The cycle will happen with RODI, salt, water flow, and a source of ammonia. A source of nitrifying bacteria speeds things up. So there are 0 pros to using tap water, especially when the OP will have an RODI unit.

Other variables like light, skimming during the cycle, etc. do not impact the nitrogen cycle to the extent you're implying (except when you add nitrates and phosphates via tap water :) ) which is why I don't see the need to prolong this by trying to refute your claims about skimming or whatever. You can skim or not skim, add lights or keep the lights off: the cycle WILL happen regardless. In the OPs case, no nitrates or phosphates present in the RODI water and dry seeded rock means no need to skim or turn on the lights. I do find it interesting to point out that algae spores germinate with ammonia which is why algae that wasn't visibly in the system before suddenly appear once nitrates and lights are present.

OP, show us some photos!
 
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theMeat

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Why are you so desperate to defend tap water? Your argument against mine now is venturing into attacking me personally, so this will be my last post to you.

I'm glad you researched to contest my argument. Good. Yes, NYC copper levels in the municipal supply are much lower at 0.007 mg/L. But seawater has a copper concentration of 0.00025 mg/L; you pulled that 0.071mg figure to make your argument, but that was the total mass of copper that should be present in his system. In other words, you are still looking at 28x the amount of copper level of seawater in an equivalent volume of NYC tap water.

There was a study that showed 50% of sea urchin larvae start to die off at 0.006 mg/L of copper in the water, which is still less than the concentration of copper in the water supply in NYC. And our water is pretty good too compared to most municipal waters. Just sayin.

So don't use tap water. The cycle will happen with RODI, salt, water flow, and a source of ammonia. A source of nitrifying bacteria speeds things up. So there are 0 pros to using tap water, especially when the OP will have an RODI unit.

Other variables like light, skimming during the cycle, etc. do not impact the nitrogen cycle to the extent you're implying (except when you add nitrates and phosphates via tap water :) ) which is why I don't see the need to prolong this by trying to refute your claims about skimming or whatever. You can skim or not skim, add lights or keep the lights off: the cycle WILL happen regardless. In the OPs case, no nitrates or phosphates present in the RODI water and dry seeded rock means no need to skim or turn on the lights. I do find it interesting to point out that algae spores germinate with ammonia which is why algae that wasn't visibly in the system before suddenly appear once nitrates and lights are present.

OP, show us some photos!
Not defending tap water. Just trying to guide a fellow reefer with some good practical advice. There's no need to take out the tap water when in fact it will help the cycle. There's plenty of real things to avoid in this hobby. Like getting waste of time and money advice from people. Also not attacking you. Just defending your attack, and if you consider giving you straight forward info that you should consider in your quest to learn more about this hobby than...

Your .00025 claim for copper in seawater is incorrect, and regardless you went from 5 thousand something times, to 28 times the amount in one post, so it's clear you're the one trying to win a waste of time argument.
 

salpet

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just run the tank and let mother nature take its coarse all these directions must have your head spinning its going to take time before its fully cycled and i'm sure that if your diligent about about your maintenance schedule you will have done more than a few water changes just remember when buying live stock(fish) to keep it on the inexpensive side because you will have losses as far as corals start with softies and youll be just fine.just remember K.I.S.S
 

CJRIZZOTTI

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just run the tank and let mother nature take its coarse all these directions must have your head spinning its going to take time before its fully cycled and i'm sure that if your diligent about about your maintenance schedule you will have done more than a few water changes just remember when buying live stock(fish) to keep it on the inexpensive side because you will have losses as far as corals start with softies and youll be just fine.just remember K.I.S.S
Thanks bud I'm going to start with corals first before I get live stock naturally after cycled

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yada yada yada skimmed thru some, i cooked lr tampa bay ones in a bucket with air stone , with tap water dechor. nyc. brooklyn , then started th tank with rodi water. any issues . im here to accept knowledge . listening more then talk ears wide open .
 

theMeat

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just run the tank and let mother nature take its coarse all these directions must have your head spinning its going to take time before its fully cycled and i'm sure that if your diligent about about your maintenance schedule you will have done more than a few water changes just remember when buying live stock(fish) to keep it on the inexpensive side because you will have losses as far as corals start with softies and youll be just fine.just remember K.I.S.S
Good stuff
 

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