Stackbundles

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Thanks everyone for all the advise. Yesterday morning I bought a product call Microbe-lift Herbtana. I lowered my salinity to 1.022. When the Ich started it was at 1.025. So far my yellow tang and niger trigger look much better. They both still have a few white spots. I also noticed a bunch of white specks on the back of my display tank. Is that the ich. Also has anyone ever used Microbe-lift Herbtana?
 

Anthony.Luciano710

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i never used the med but any meds labeled reef safe are only temporary unless used for 3 months straight. and lowering the salt level will just stress them. it wont be effective until the salinity is below 1.010.
Thanks everyone for all the advise. Yesterday morning I bought a product call Microbe-lift Herbtana. I lowered my salinity to 1.022. When the Ich started it was at 1.025. So far my yellow tang and niger trigger look much better. They both still have a few white spots. I also noticed a bunch of white specks on the back of my display tank. Is that the ich. Also has anyone ever used Microbe-lift Herbtana?
 

Jkedra

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Thanks everyone for all the advise. Yesterday morning I bought a product call Microbe-lift Herbtana. I lowered my salinity to 1.022. When the Ich started it was at 1.025. So far my yellow tang and niger trigger look much better. They both still have a few white spots. I also noticed a bunch of white specks on the back of my display tank. Is that the ich. Also has anyone ever used Microbe-lift Herbtana?

Also keep in mind...ich can hide in the gills
 

marrone

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THERES A LOT OF WAYS THAT PEOPLE TOLD ME TO DO DEAL WITH THE ONE ICK ENCOUNTER I HAD...LOWERING THE S.G AND RAISING THE TEMP WORKS...BUT THAT MAY EFFECT YOUR TANKS ECO SYSTEM...AND MAY CAUSE PROBLEMS LATER DOWN THE LINE...COPPER IS JUST SOMETHING I STAY AWAY FROM...(I LOVE MY INVERTS)...BUT YOUR INVERTS AND CORALS WILL HATE YOU FOR THE REST OF THEIR SHORT LIVES IF YOU RAISE THE S.G AS WELL AS THE TEMP AND CHANCES ARE ICK WONT DIE UNTIL A WEEK OR SO... I HAVE A SAILFIN TANG THAT HAD ICK PRIOR TO ME INTRODUCING IT IN MY TANK...WHEN I SAW HIM IN MY LOCAL PET STORE I SAID TO MYSELF "IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF A FISH SUFFERED IN A ISOLATED TANK" A FISH BEING SOAKED WITH COPPER HAS A 50/50 CHANCE OF SURVIVING THE ICK CYCLE...AND THE STRESS OF BEING ISOLATED ONLY HURTS HIS CHANCES OR SURVIVING THE ORDEAL....THE WORKERS WERENT CHANGING HIS WATER EVERY 2 DAYS LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING(SOMEONE SHOULD SHOVE X-LAX DOWN THEIR THROAT AND LOCK THEM IN A BATHROOM WITH ONE ROLL OF TOILET PAPER FOR A WEEK AND SEE HOW IT FEELS)...WELL TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT,I BOUGHT HIM...I DID SOME READING ICK AND WAYS TO CURE THE FISH WITHOUT COPPER AND WITHOUT ALTERING THE LIVING INHABITANTS ON MY REEF...I READ THAT A QUICK FRESH WATER DIP WILL INSTANTLY KILL ANY PARASITE THAT COMES ALONG WITH THE SALTWATER HOBBY.FRESHWATER DIP IS NOT A 100%GUARANTEE THAT THE FISH WILL SURVIVE THE SHOCK OF A FRESHWATER DIP...AND IN MY OPINION SHOULD ONLY BE DONE TO FISH THAT ARE STILL EATING AND THAT ARE ADULT.
THE DAY AFTER I BOUGHT HIM...HE WAS INFESTED WITH ICK..I FED HIM REAL HEALTHY AND DECIDED TO DIP HIM..THE WAY I SAW IT HES EITHER GONNA GET BETTER OR HES GONNA DIE FAST AND NOT BE IN PAIN ANYMORE... I DID A 4 SECOND RO/DI WATER DIP (TEMP HAS TO BE WITHIN RANGE HES USED TO) AND ALL THE ICK DIED OFF HIM RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES...HE WAS IN A LITTLE BIT OF SHOCK..BUT QUICKLY RECOVERED PARASITE FREE.I DONT RECOMMEND IT TO SMALL FISH OR FISH THAT HAVENT BEEN EATING DUE TO THE ICK..MY SAILFIN WAS 4 INCHES AND ADULT STAGE AND STILL EATING WHEN I DIPPED HIM..AND IM NOT SAYING IT WILL WORK FOR EVERYBODY... TO THOSE WHOS FISH THAT ARE STILL EATING AND ARE HEALTHY...MEANING THE FISH IS NOT SKIN AND BONES...HAVE A GOOD CHANCE OF SURVIVING THE FRESH WATER DIP ICK FREE...AND RO/DI WATER TEMP HAS TO BE PRECISE WITH THE WATER HES COMING OUT OF...IF NOT HE WILL GO INTO MORE SHOCK AND PROBABLY WONT MAKE IT.
IVE LEARNED A LOT FROM MY ONE ORDEAL WITH ICK...AND THE BEST ADVISE I CAN GIVE YOU IS...BEFORE YOU BUY...STUDY THE FISH...LOOK FOR ANY ABNORMALTIES AND IF YOU DO BUY...BE SURE TO INDRODUCE HIM IN YOUR TANK THE PROPER WAY TO PREVENT THE FISH FROM BECOMING STRESSED WHICH IN TERN CAN CAUSE THE SPAWN OF PARASITES. I HOPE YOUR FISH GETS BETTER...:)

iMa bE 90 YEaRs OLd DoIn a 30% wAtEr ChAnGe...cUz IMa bE rOcKiN TilL I dIe...

90 GALLON DISPLAY
IN DISPLAY;
110 LBS FIJI LIVE ROCK
90 LBS LIVE SAND
(3) 50GPH POWERHEADS
30 GALLON SUMP
IN SUMP;
40 LBS LIVE SAND
15 LBS FIJI LIVE ROCK.
PHOSBAN REACTOR
10 WATT U.V STEROLIZER (DONT HAVE AN ICK PROB)BUT JUST IN CASE
CORALIFE SUPER SKIMMER(150) IT WORKS FOR ME!
(ELITE) 200 WATT HEATER
LIGHTING;
T5 NOVAS (6 BULB FIXTURES)
48 INCH MARINLAND L.E.D REEF LIGHTING(NEW)
LIGHTING ;
IN SUMP
30-90 WATT FLOOD LAMP
L.S...SAILFIN TANG,YELLOW TANG,WATCHMAN GOBY AND A SMALL CLEAN UP CREW...4 NOW..

The big problem with Fresh water dips is that they don't work. The ich can last a lot of longer in fresh water than a fish can, also you're not remove any of the ich that is inside the fish, it's eyes and gills, not to mention the ich that is in-bedded into the fish body.
 

Jkedra

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The big problem with Fresh water dips is that they don't work. The ich can last a lot of longer in fresh water than a fish can, also you're not remove any of the ich that is inside the fish, it's eyes and gills, not to mention the ich that is in-bedded into the fish body.

+1 the ich will actually feed off the fish's blood...
 

KathyC

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For a FOWLR I'd probably just "hypo" the entire system.

+1

Microbelift Herbtana does NOT claim to kill the Ich parasite, all it does is irritate the skin of the fish(making it's slime coat thicker) in HOPE that the Ich will not reattach to the fish.
This is probably the poorest way of dealing with Ich, you may as well just cross your fingers and do nothing. This is also the same way that Rid-Ick and all of those others useless 'reef-safe' Ich products supposedly work. Bottom line is they don't work.

To do the Hypo - you need to lower the SG to 1.009. Any higher and it will do nothing at all to help the situation.

You need to keep the salinity there for 6-8 weeks and add no other fish in the meantime.

The spots on the rear wall of your tank are not Ich, they are tiny snails that are expected/common in a newer tank, eventually they will vanish. They do no harm.
 

nittinid

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The big problem with Fresh water dips is that they don't work. The ich can last a lot of longer in fresh water than a fish can, also you're not remove any of the ich that is inside the fish, it's eyes and gills, not to mention the ich that is in-bedded into the fish body.

Ick dies of at low salt gravity...why wouldnt they die in WATER WITH NO SALT!!!?

You say freshwater dips dont work..well it did for me...and what might not work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work.

When i dipped my sailfin all the ick(hundreds) instantly....instantly fell off and died!!! IN SECONDS!!

You can say "in my opinion" freshwater dips don't work...BUT that wouldnt be accurate...I have video of before and after the dip....that shows freshwater dips can be successful...

Now keep in mind...I have no med tank...I don't belive in copper...

NOTE!! The before video.. My yellow tang rubbing up on my sailfin tang not to mention their in the same tank!!

BEFORE THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=octjZ6Ci7cI

3 WEEKS AFTER THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJFY37wLFM
 

marrone

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Ick dies of at low salt gravity...why wouldnt they die in WATER WITH NO SALT!!!?

Ich doesn't die instantly in lower SG, but over a period of time. Ich can easily live in fresh water for quite sometime, way longer than most fish can take it.

You say freshwater dips dont work..well it did for me...and what might not work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Did it really work or was it something else? Most likely it was something else and you still have the ich in the tank.


When i dipped my sailfin all the ick(hundreds) instantly....instantly fell off and died!!! IN SECONDS!!

Must be some sort of magic water you used, as ich can stay embedded onto the fish for quite sometime, and a fresh water dip isn't going to remove them. It's also very possible that you didn't have ich but something else, like maybe gill flukes, where a fresh water dip will kill most of them instantly and you'll see them falling off the fish in seconds. Fish infected with gill flukes reaction very similar to fish with ich, a lot of scratching and flashing.

You can say "in my opinion" freshwater dips don't work...BUT that wouldnt be accurate...I have video of before and after the dip....that shows freshwater dips can be successful...

Now keep in mind...I have no med tank...I don't belive in copper...
You can show me all the videos you want, fresh water dips don't remove or cure ich. I'm not sure why you don't believe in copper, as it differently kill ich.

NOTE!! The before video.. My yellow tang rubbing up on my sailfin tang not to mention their in the same tank!!

BEFORE THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=octjZ6Ci7cI

3 WEEKS AFTER THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJFY37wLFM

I don't have time to look at the video, but the fresh water dips had nothing to do with the ich disappearing from the fish. There is a good chance the fish fought off the ich or there is still ich in the tank, the fish just haven't been as infected as before. Also it's possible you didn't have ich to begin with.
 

KathyC

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Ick dies of at low salt gravity...why wouldnt they die in WATER WITH NO SALT!!!?

You say freshwater dips dont work..well it did for me...and what might not work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work.

When i dipped my sailfin all the ick(hundreds) instantly....instantly fell off and died!!! IN SECONDS!!

You can say "in my opinion" freshwater dips don't work...BUT that wouldnt be accurate...I have video of before and after the dip....that shows freshwater dips can be successful...

Now keep in mind...I have no med tank...I don't belive in copper...

NOTE!! The before video.. My yellow tang rubbing up on my sailfin tang not to mention their in the same tank!!

BEFORE THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=octjZ6Ci7cI

3 WEEKS AFTER THE DIP..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaJFY37wLFM

If getting rid of Ich was as simple as dipping the fish in FW - NOBODY in reefing would be having such an issue with it.
The Ich that you saw fall off the fish was only some of the Ich. Marrone was trying to explain to you that there IS more Ich in the fish, it can (and probably still is) in it's gills and in it's eyes and other places inside the body. The FW CANNOT get to those Ich cysts embedded inside the fish -- so they break open and fall to your substrate - they continue to multiply in your tank.

There are SOME fish that after getting Ich can become immune to it - nobody knows why, or for how long the immunity may last but that certainly doesn't mean the next fish you put in your tank won't catch it - or that the corals you frag and give to other people won't have Ich parasites in them and you could pass it onto those reefers.

FW dips can be useful in helping to fight Ich, but they are FAR from the only thing you need to do to eradicate it from your tank!
 

Jkedra

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Wrong again, the ich is actually eating tissue, not drinking blood.


hmmm I do not think I'm fully wrong because it states it right here:

"After a few days of feeding on the fish's blood, the parasite bores its way out of the fish and forms a cyst in the tank.''

This came directly from this:

http://www.aboutfishonline.com/articles/ich.html

"It then feeds on the blood and dead skin cells. It is the burrowing of the parasite which results in irritation and leads to swelling of the skin. White cysts which appear as spots also develop in the process. This irritation causes the fish to rub and scratch against the rocks and gravel. After many days of feeding, the parasite turns into a trophozoite and comes out of the fish and sinks to the bottom."

http://www.pethealthandcare.com/fish-health/fish-ich.html
 
Last edited:

Anthony.Luciano710

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+1 i tried everything when i first got ich the only real cures are hypo and copper.
Ich doesn't die instantly in lower SG, but over a period of time. Ich can easily live in fresh water for quite sometime, way longer than most fish can take it.



Did it really work or was it something else? Most likely it was something else and you still have the ich in the tank.




Must be some sort of magic water you used, as ich can stay embedded onto the fish for quite sometime, and a fresh water dip isn't going to remove them. It's also very possible that you didn't have ich but something else, like maybe gill flukes, where a fresh water dip will kill most of them instantly and you'll see them falling off the fish in seconds. Fish infected with gill flukes reaction very similar to fish with ich, a lot of scratching and flashing.


You can show me all the videos you want, fresh water dips don't remove or cure ich. I'm not sure why you don't believe in copper, as it differently kill ich.



I don't have time to look at the video, but the fresh water dips had nothing to do with the ich disappearing from the fish. There is a good chance the fish fought off the ich or there is still ich in the tank, the fish just haven't been as infected as before. Also it's possible you didn't have ich to begin with.
 

JavyJaverson

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Just listen to marrone, i've read just about every scientific fact about ich and i can tell marrone has read them too. One thing i can add to this conversation is a piece of advise from a mistake i made a while back. Some one suggested hypoing my fowler, so i did. The advise seemed sound as i had no visible inverts in my tank, however i grossly underestimated how much life resides within the rocks. i had a crazy ammonia spike that made matters worse. All in all, i think its easier remove all the fish and quarantine.
 

IamRobG

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Hertana didn't do anything for me but give me crappy water quality because it says to turn the skimmer off and it made my water smell like ****. Its supposed to irritate the fish and help it build a thicker slime coat which in turn makes it harder for the ich?? Something like that but it didn't work. You could try taking all your rock out and treating the tank with copper but then i heard it can leech into your silicone and there goes your tank. Your best bet really is to spend the 50 bucks go buy a little 20 gallon tank and quarantine and copper the fish for 6 weeks. I'm now in my second battle with ich and so far i'm winning except i have a reef tank and they're impossible to catch. Good water quality and feedings will help as well. Make sure you keep all your levels in check, garlic will help with the fish immune system and do daily 5% water changes. Thats what i'm doing now and after week 2 everyones still alive and looking a little better.

Rule number 1-QUARANTINE EVERYTHING. For more than 2 weeks also. I have my quarantine tank always copper filled and quarantine for at least 3-4 weeks. I got impatient, did it for 1 week and now i have ich again.

GOOD LUCK!
 

IamRobG

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If getting rid of Ich was as simple as dipping the fish in FW - NOBODY in reefing would be having such an issue with it.
The Ich that you saw fall off the fish was only some of the Ich. Marrone was trying to explain to you that there IS more Ich in the fish, it can (and probably still is) in it's gills and in it's eyes and other places inside the body. The FW CANNOT get to those Ich cysts embedded inside the fish -- so they break open and fall to your substrate - they continue to multiply in your tank.

There are SOME fish that after getting Ich can become immune to it - nobody knows why, or for how long the immunity may last but that certainly doesn't mean the next fish you put in your tank won't catch it - or that the corals you frag and give to other people won't have Ich parasites in them and you could pass it onto those reefers.

FW dips can be useful in helping to fight Ich, but they are FAR from the only thing you need to do to eradicate it from your tank!


+1 !! My foxface is the lone survivor of my first ich outbreak and now on outbreak number 2 there isn't a spot on him and he's swimming around eating everything like there's nothing wrong.
 

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