Nanobbules and strawman arguments
- Thread starter Thales
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I've been following the thread...with much skepticism, pun intended.
I should admit that I don't know much about the topic and wanted to learn more about what is polarizing everyone. And this means that my lack of knowledge on the topic places me in what I consider a very neutral position.
I don't know Thales or have ever interacted with this individual, but I think a very important point is missed by others who try to argue with him...and that point is that this is Thales sub-forum within this forum...it is his forum to post these exact type of threads and foster these exact types of discussions.
So personal attacks are uncalled for.
Lastly, did you guys here the one about pico-bubbles?
I should admit that I don't know much about the topic and wanted to learn more about what is polarizing everyone. And this means that my lack of knowledge on the topic places me in what I consider a very neutral position.
I don't know Thales or have ever interacted with this individual, but I think a very important point is missed by others who try to argue with him...and that point is that this is Thales sub-forum within this forum...it is his forum to post these exact type of threads and foster these exact types of discussions.
So personal attacks are uncalled for.
Lastly, did you guys here the one about pico-bubbles?
I think it is great the people play scientist - that is something I support. I just want them not to promote fallacious thinking because it leads to bad things. I often have to argue that anyone can do science because people seem to think they 'have to have a lab and fancy equipment'.
Sometimes I do work at what you are calling finesse, but in my experience it takes so much effort and the results end up being exactly the same because at the root of it, some people just get bent unless you agree with them.
Understand but it is tough if you lump everyone into one category. If a company is selling a product based solely on anecdotal evidence and does not disclose as such, then I wholeheartedly agree. If a hobbyist is truly excited about something that works for him/her and brings it up as something to consider trying then this is a gray area and would not come down so hard and fast so quickly. You do not know the back story especially on a personal level. Maybe there is a sick child in the family excited to witness dad's "great results" ...... so dad shares it...
If I made that same comment you might call me cynical
From what I see, you are spending alot of effort anyways on defense of sorts. Just my observations, I have no hard evidenceI wouldn't call you cynical for that comment! I might ask more questions, but I wouldn't lead with cynical.
Sometimes I do spend a lot of time on it, but it would be much more if I was trying to figure out a way to make them happy instead of just having a discussion. My degree is in Philosophy so the way people think and argue is fascinating to me.
Sometimes I do spend a lot of time on it, but it would be much more if I was trying to figure out a way to make them happy instead of just having a discussion. My degree is in Philosophy so the way people think and argue is fascinating to me.
Rock! Thanks for chiming in. I have no problem with people arguing with me, I love it and love to be shown I am wrong. It happens all the time. What I don't care for is people using fallacy and bad argumentation.
I agree, I think personal attacks are generally uncalled for and I feel bad the few times a year I don't stop myself from playing in that way.
Interesting, not suggesting you try to make a person happy while trying to make your point! But I'll take it! It just seems to me one could spend the same amount of time, in a more "gentle" way, to make the same point? Maybe? Do I need to go back to my inner child?
jackson6745
SPS KILLER
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IME being less straight forward, doing anything but just saying what I want to say, gets either the same or worse reaction or gets ignored. I don't know how to be more gentle than my first post on r2r -
"We see growth pics all the time like those in tanks that don't bubble. What would be useful would be two tanks side by side, run the same except for bubbling, and then comparison of fragments of the same corals put into the tanks at the same time."
More smiley's?
I don't think anyone would really disagree that we don't need data but I'm not looking at your thread. Anyway here's more data ToTM from 2008. Just look at all them bubbles...
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-04/totm/
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-04/totm/
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