The Importance of Water Changes for your SPS Colors?

[CoralReefer]

This thread is awesome. I have seen best growth, color, and polyp extension with esv salt 5g per week, total water volume is around 90. I like feeding the tank heavy with oyster and roti feast, mysis, pellets,cyclopeeze to keep nutrients up a little and keep both sps and zoas happy which isn't an easy task. If I need to lower phosphates I use P04+ (brightwell aquatics)in a TLF reactor. I highly recommend this product over any other gfo.

I have also found from my personal experience that in most cases lack of sps color is more related to improper spectrum(usually LEDs) or placement in the tank and not so much nutrients in the system. I know that a nutrient starved tank will obviously leave corals pale but let's be honest how many people have that problem. I am saying this bc I have kept the same sps colonies under t5s, reef koi LEDs, ai sols, and now radions and until I found a good lighting graph all my corals weren't as nice as they were under t5s. Now that I have finally found a good graph I can honestly say that colors compare to those with a 20k MH or ati blue+. I know that a lot of people have very colorful sps under ai sols but I couldn't find a good spectrum that corals liked.

All you t5 lovers go with radions you won't be disappointed

I also agree with jhart about potassium.

-Nikko

 

[jackson6745]

Nikko we have enough lighting threads What do you notice with the potassium? Whats the difference between Brightwell PO4 remover and regular GFO?



I did a 15 gallon water change last night after a week of heavy feeding and the corals look soooooo happy. Polyp extension on millis have increased. I've read that PE is not a sign of health but to some extent I would disagree based on my experiences. More often I have had corals die while polyps retracted, but I did lose some to rtn or stn while fuzzy I dunno

 

[Tonyscoots84]

Nikko we have enough lighting threads

Took the words right out of my mouth : lol2:

 

[CoralReefer]

I like po4 better because although it is more expensive you can use much less and achieve the same results. It is also a lot easier to clean out of the reactor. If you use it in a reactor it shouldn't move at all, not even the slightest tumble.

 

[Hans24hrs]

I am glad someone started this thread. I have a 220 mixed reef, moderate fish stock. I have alway believed in keeping to the basics, but that isn't always the best way. I recently have added quite a few SPS's in the last couple of months. So now I have to adjust my methods of tank maintenance. Since adding them I have noticed swings in my alk. So I tried doing more frequent water changes and manually dosing. It works but is very time consuming, so I purchased some dosers. I also bit the bullet and finally got a controller to help automate things.
As far as my water changes, I was trying to stick with the recommendation of salt mix (seachem salinity) of every two weeks. that works okay, but everyone's tank is different. I have found that weekly changes of half the recommended two week change works a little better. Like anything else small subtle changes are easier to adjust to than large less frequent ones.

I will let you know how my corals do after I have the dosers up for a couple of weeks. Till then, sticking to current regime.

 

[jackson6745]

everyone's tank is different..

This brings up something else that I was thinking about. Let me start by saying that I disagree with this statement (not directed at you Hans). I read this all the time on every forum.
IMO every tank is the same in a sense. Yes we may have different skimmers, flow, fish stock and coral type, sand beds or BB, refugium or not, chemical medias or not, vodka etc.. Age would also be another variable. My point is, given a set of these variables, it is predictable how a system will perform. However there are so many different combinations of variables that are used in different aquariums, we might as well look at it as "every tank is different" LOL
But.....there are some common trends to notice for sure:knockedou

 

[Paul B]

OK I hate to say this but I don't change much water at all, maybe 100 gallons a year in my 100 gallon system and I don't notice any difference in the corals or the fish after I change water. My corals look good before a water change as well as after. My SPS acropora, monti's and LPS etc. do great and grow fast even though my nitrates are very high. I have no idea what my phosphate is because I don't have a test kit. But I will say that if you can see a difference in your corals after a water change, something must be wrong with your water that is gradually affecting your corals.
I do feel as was said that every tank is different and my tank is by no means the nicest looking tank on here but I feel changing to much water is actually detrimental.
OK stop laughing, but that is how I feel. A new tank with all new water looks lousy and has the most un healthiest livestock. True or not?
Most older systems look much better and have much healthier animals.
New systems, with the least amount of nutrients grow the most algae and have the most problems with ich and everything else.
I feel that although water changes are of course necessary, they are frequently overdone.
You can yell at me later, I am going out now. :bagfish:

 

[jackson6745]

Paul I respect your input and agree with you to some extent. We would never yell at the grandfather of reefing Maybe just a little

Your tank is very old and houses much more bacteria than a tank that has been setup for a short time. As with many older reefs that I have seen, they seem to process waste better. Your corals have probably been growing in your system for a long time as well so they have gotten over shipping stress and have adapted to your water parameters. Your SPS put their foot down and are probably good size. You have all these things going for you.

New tanks tend to be unstable due to changing calcification demands, bacterial populations adjusting for new livestock, and have "new" corals introduced that have to settle in. So I agree that they do not look as healthy as an established reef.......but you have to start somewhere and new corals in a new tank do much better in cleaner water than a tank with high nitrates and phosphates.

I think where we disagree is the demand for peak SPS colors. With your high nitrates and probably higher than they should be phosphates, it is a PITA to get good colors from many acro types. Stylos, pocilliporas, hydnophora, and most tentacle type SPS would love your system. You can probably get a really deep purple from nana/valida try-color types if they settled into your water quality. I'm sure there are a few other types that would show deep rich colors in your system. For every coral that would do well, there are 10 that would brown out, or have brown shaggy polyps covering them, or turn green (when that's not the color) etc..

I realize that I am making generalizations about your reef. I have seen pics online and you told us your water quality. Now, if you show me pics of a bright red table, beautifully colored mills, stags with nice blue tips, or any other acro that doesn't have its color shaded with an over population of zooxanthellae...........You will blow my mind and I would have learned something new! If this is the case, i will be at your house tomorrow taking some of your live sand and begging for a piece of live rock

 

[Paul B]

Jackson, unfortunately I agree with almost everything you said and I hate when I agree with people.
The only reason my tank has SPS at all is because years ago some people on here said SPS could never grow in a tank such as mine because of the conditions and my practices. So I bought some SPS frags, and the dam things grew all over the place.
As to their color, you are correct that I don't have a lot of color in my tank, but in my defense, I don't think I have any colorful corals to begin with. My tank is mostly LPS such as frogspawn, hammars, and gorgonoans because I just like the movement better than SPS. The 5 or 6 types of SPS I have are acropora which is the same color it was when I got it, kind of a greenish, the montipora which are almost becomming a pest are pink. I can't be sure how pink they are supposed to be and as a man I only see one tint of pink. Pink Pink. There is an old green coral which I forgot the name of. (I was married for 6 months before I remembered my wife'e name) I am not real good with names but I will try to find a picture.
They grow as fast as I think they should grow. The acropora,s are all over the place and seem to double in size in 6 months or so.
Now I know you are going to force me to buy some colorful corals just to see if they do well. So the next time I go to a LFS I will see what they have.
The pictures of my corals don't look colorful because I never take pictures with a flash so the colors are muted.

This guy is becomming a pest and is now all over the tank, it grew from a 1/2" frag. There is no color in this picture because as I said, I don't use a flash, and it is a lousy picture anyway.
You can see my photography skills are not great as the pictures all have a different tint even though it is the same tank.

Here it is much younger

This is one of my oldest SPS, it is lime green and it was always lime green. I think thats the best that coral gets, but I could be wrong. Again, no flash

This is my oldest SPS, and like the last one, I have no idea how old it is but it is up there.
Obviousely I don't use photoshop as I don't even know how.

This monti frag is now about 8" across and grows wild, it is pink and I think it was always that color pink. Pink is pink and as a man, I only know one color pink. Pink Pink

I just like soft corals better but let me know the name of a coral that you don't think will grow in my tank and I will get it as a test. It will most likely croak but I like a test.

 

[jackson6745]

Paul that big stag is impressive and better than I expected to see given your nitrate level. I think that is a Acropora Microphtalma If you search through some of the pics in the link, you will see what it can look like in different reefs. The other two SPS look like Pavona. That's pretty much what they look like.

Do you do anything to keep phosphate low? GFO or phosphate sponge etc? I am surprised that you are keeping a montipora cap pink. That usually happens in a low nutrient environment. In most tanks it will look orange, in some larger or aged systems it gets red/orange. In my last 15 years reefing I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing a true red monti cap, or a true pink monti cap. They are all variants of orange and will change color given lighting and nutrient level. Although I do remember a pink plating monti way back when. This was a non-scrolling monti, similar to montipora undata but pink.

Reading that you have 80ppm nitrate and have SPS naturally makes me think of Calireefs old tanks. He kept many colorful SPS with a similarly high nitrate level. However, I think he bought stock in phosban Hopefully he sees this and chimes in.

Anyway Paul, a good SPS test would be a colored milli since you like movement If you can keep a pink milli pink given your current nutrient level I would be surprised. Once again begging for some rock and sand :redface:

 

[FaviaFreak]

this is what water changes can help get

 

[Mattl22]

I have had 3 frags of pro corals rainbow stag and they never do good for me and certainly don't come anywhere close to that pic!!

 

[FaviaFreak]

I have had 3 frags of pro corals rainbow stag and they never do good for me and certainly don't come anywhere close to that pic!!

give me a frag and let me try

 

[Tonyscoots84]

I have had 3 frags of pro corals rainbow stag and they never do good for me and certainly don't come anywhere close to that pic!!

what are your water changes per month? i noticed a HUGE difference since i upped my water changes in sps colors :groupflip

 

[Paul B]

Do you do anything to keep phosphate low? GFO or phosphate sponge etc?

No, and I don't know, or care what my phosphate level is as I don't have a test kit. I gave them up decades ago.

Reading that you have 80ppm nitrate and have SPS naturally makes me think of Calireefs old tanks.

Where did you read that? I tested the nitrates 6 months ago and they were 40. For many years they were 5 but on my last trip to Europe, my tank sitter let the water level fall 7" causing all the corals near the top of the tank to die. After that, the nitrates went up and I think are still high. I don't want to lower them as an experiment because the SPS are growing much faster with the higher nitrates and I just want to see what happens. There is also no algae in my tank but it is growing in my algae trough or scrubber.
That monti grows seemingly fast and is getting pushed by a frogspawn to grow in the opposite direction. In person the tank is much more colorful than in those washed out pictures and nothing seems to die including the fish which many are spawning including the mandarins and blue striped pipefish.
This tank to me, has always been an experiment or learning experience and I never thought of it as a thing of beauty. It is easy to keep things alive and growing but I want to see how to make it better, healthier, to see what nitrate does and why people seem to think of it as poison. What is algae's role? how to keep the fish spawning and living disease free forever, what is the best food? why do some tanks get ich? why do people change so much water?
These are things I like to know. Anyone can keep these things alive, but if we don't experiment we won't know squat.
Now I will try to get some of those corals you mentioned if I can to see if they thrive in my tank.
Thank you for that information.

Once again begging for some rock and sand :redface:

Jackson, I am in New Hyde Park probably 35 minutes from you, come by anytime you like or come out boating and collecting to see the mud I add to my tank.
Paul

 

[RGibson]

how do you mix 5 gal of salt water?

 

[Paul B]

how do you mix 5 gal of salt water?

You take a 5 gallon bucket of fresh water and dump in enough salt to make it whatever salinity you want. Why, how does anyone else mix 5 gallons of salt water?

 

[Paul B]

You shamed me into taking a picture with a flash although as a SCUBA diver I think it is more un natural.
I also don't touch up pictures. But I probably would if I could.

More of half of this monti is under it and dead, it died because the coral on it's right keeps overtaking it so it keeps moving to the left. They are both encrusting so I can't and don't want to move them and let nature take it's course but it would be over a foot long if I let it grow.

 

[jackson6745]

Sorry Paul, I confused the 80ppm nitrate with something else I was reading. I'm looking forward to see how some other SPS respond in your reef.

 

[Paul B]

I went to get a mili today but they didn't have any so I got an arrow crab and clown gobi. Close anyway.