Treating Ich in a Reef Tank

[Tangster]

I just noticed this morning that some of my fish have marine ich. This is not my first time treating ich, I believe i have tried just about every method imaginable. I first noticed 3 spots on my Yellow tang, so i immediately looked for the source. It seems my Male Lyretail anthia as well as the 2 females have the worst case of ich. The two females have about 5 spots mainly on their tails. The male has about 10-15 spots on fins and a small amount on the body. No other fish in the tank have ich, I will put a list of the fish below.

Fish:
2 Tracey's Damselfish
2 Wild Clowns
3 Lyretail anthias
1 Yellow Tang
1 Melenarus Wrasse
1 Bubble anemone
various zoas and polyps

I have a quarantine tank which i can set up, however my past experiences with doing this is that when i catch the fish and transfer them, the process becomes so stressful, they end up dying.
My plan is to keep the fish eating, which they currently are. I will do a water change every day, and try to get the water quality up. i just tested the parameters, and ammonia, nitrate are at 0. I fed the tang seaweed this morning, and now it looks like there is only 1 spot left on his fin. I may add paraguard to the system, but only at 1/4 the dose. If the anemone does not react, and the corals show no signs I will continue the dosing, and maybe increase it.
If i quarantine any fish, I think I will only quarantine the anthias seeing as they are the worst. I also have a small 4 gallon nano tank which i can move the zoos into, I don't think the anemone will be able to last long in the nano. I could also move the corals into a quarantine tank, and put my old light setup over that tank. I just switched my LEDs last night, so I have two 55w bulbs which i can put over the 20. I would still have to do water changes to both tanks. If i did this, and dosed the paraguard in my DT would the live rock be affected?
Please let me know of your past experiences with ice, success/unsuccessful?
Thanks

 

[cmantis]

If you can take the anemone out hit it with chloroquine phosphate.

 

[Z06-Hec]

Just to throw my experiences with ick...
I have tried treating it a few times and most of the time fail. The catching and moving the fish usually plays a big part of stressing them even more.
I have tried changing the salinity, increasing the heat, using "Reef Safe" meds, using copper... Like i said... Most of the fish die, in fact i have had only 1 fish survive that is still with me. (Majestic Angel) from 3-4 years ago.
Since my last tank upgrade from 90 to 150 i just added a UV Sterilizer and never looked back... Have not had any outbreaks in a long time.
At one point i was skeptical about the UV that i turned it off. Within a few weeks, ick showed up again. I kept everyone eating a lot and turned it back on, no more ick.
Have not seen it ever since then.

I will never mess with medicating the fish after the fact. I use some NLS medicated food here and there and keep my UV running.

 

[Reefinny]

I agree with Z06-Hec, I was having issues with my Achilles, tried many things. Hooked up a 57w UV, and never looked back. If you invest in one get one that is rated high enough for your tank.

 

[Tangster]

Thanks for the input. I definitely agree that moving them stresses them even more, usually killing them. I do have a uv sterilizer, however the bulb died and I could never got a new one. I was also skeptical about it and I didn't think it helped. I have to figure out what bulb to get, I have a coralife sterilizer that came with the tank so I'm not sure the wattage.

Last night I also began dosing Herbtana. It is supposed to be a naturally ick killer which strengthens the immune system while also killing them off. I did a full does last night and so far there have been no serious reactions from the anemone and corals. One group of polyps did contract slightly, but never fully closed. My only skepticism is that I have to shut off the skimmer. I don't know how this will affect water quality. Today will be day 2 of treatment.
When I picked up the Herbtana, I also gathered more supplies for my "war" on ick. I got some vitamin supplements, as well as Matrix biofilter. I put the matrix in my phosphate reactor, and some in the filter bag. It is supposed to remove nitrates, as well as organic waste.

Last night after my water change in the morning I also noticed that the ick on the male anthia seemed to be gone, as well as the females. The yellow tang had nothing for a while but later I noticed some spots on the left fin.

 

[Ekimabba23]

I use kick ick it is reef safe and it has worked for me a few times you don't need to remove and fish coral or inverts just my 2 cents

 

[bonomo53]

The ich not being on the fish just means it moved onto the next stage in the life cycle and will come back in a few weeks. None of those reefsafe treatments will work. The only way to competently get rid of ich is to quarantine the the fish and leave the tank fallow for 72 days.

 

[peachyreef]

It maybe worth trying to determine the cause of the ick. Sometimes those things flare up unexpectedly, but I have found it is often due to some sort of stress response; whether that stressor be from an environmental change, water quality change, a new addition to the tank, or aggression among tank mates. Often if you eliminate one of those issues you also reduce flare ups. But, that has just been my experience.

Something we use quite often to help keep appetites, especially when a fish is sick, is a garlic supplement. It seems to really stimulate them and some people argue it helps keep diseases at bay.

I would also highly recommend you get your UV bulb replaced, like the others said, even if you decide to quarantine. It will help prevent issues in the future and possibly eliminate some issues now.

I have also had great success with Kick Ich as well in reef tanks as well.

Good Luck!

 

[Tangster]

I haven't had the time to give an update, but i am happy to say that as of right now I am rich free. after about 2 days of herbtana treatment, the ice seemed to get worse. one of my lyretails was starting to sit near the bottom and i could tell it was not doing well. I then decided to switch over to Paraguard treatment, which is not reef safe. I moved all the corals to me nano tank, including the anemone. The anemone suffered greatly in the nano, and i ended up losing it. The lyretail lasted 3 more days, eating small amounts, before dying.
Then the ice seemed to be slowing down, i continued to do a water change every day. i continued paraguard treatment as well as Prime and later stressguard. The stressguard began after I noticed a huge cut along the left side of my male Anthia. I kept the male alive and eating for about 3 days before he stopped eating. i have no idea where the cut came from, possibly fighting with my damsels. I then had about 5 days of peace, all my fish were now ice free. My Yellow Tang surprisingly had the least issues and kept eating throughout the whole process. each night I fed the fish miss with vitamin supplements, and the tang got seaweed, which the melenarus wrasse eats too apparently.
My last lyretail had not external signs of sickness, but stopped eating and died about 3 days ago. I believe the damsels may have been responsible for this as well. as a pack the anthers were fine, especially because the male was bigger than the tang. But with nobody else, the anther was abused by the damsels.
My total treatment included 45ml of Paraguard a night, of which i used 700ml in total. In addition I used 30ml of Prime, and 45ml of stress guard if i noticed damaged fins or scales. I also got my UV sterilizer up and running shortly after you guys recommended it.The Portein skimmer had to be turned off throughout this process, and only just came back on last night after I ended treatment on Friday. My total treatment time with paraguard was 15 days, about 11 or 12 of which there were no signs of ich.


Now I would like to focus on preventing another disaster like this. My first solution is to remove my two damsels, they used to be peaceful but i think they will need to live in the refugium and or quarantine tank for a while. Next, I need to replace my Protein skimmer. I currently have a Coraline Super skimmer Cone 150, which is not doing the job. It works for a couple of days until I need to re calibrate the air etc. I am looking at getting either reef octopus or Vertex. Please let me know what you guys think, this is for a 90g reef. it also has to fit an RS200 sump.

Vertex: http://vertexaquaristik.com/Product...s/IN180/tabid/148/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Vertex:http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GJYT7PA/?tag=reefs04-20

Octopus:Regal 150INT
Octopus:Classic 200INT
Octopus: SRO 3000INT
also, is Bubble Magus any good?
Please let me know which skimmers you guys have or would recommend.

 

[mtxguy8]

If i have to leave my tank with the non sense fall off 3 weeks 4 weeks 72 days and so on i rather sell everything pack it up and go. i had a friend that was doing that and in a year if he has his tank with fish 3 month out of the year was a lot. its non sense to leave tank fishless for 72 days or whatever then you get ick again for whatever reason even from temperature swing 2 or 3 degrees will get you ick again. you think im gonna be like that. what fishless again and again and again lol i told my firend its pointless for that i rather retired from the hobby. just me 5 cents lol

 

[greenstreet.1]

Why not just qt all your fish before you add them to the tank then you will never have to use the 72 day nonsense as you say


Onelove.

 

[Tangster]

okay, I've narrowed down my skimmer choices.
Vertex Omega 130 @$319.00
Ebay: $280.00
or

Bubble Magus Curve 5 @$209.00

or

Bubble Magus Curve 7 @$299.00

So which one should it be, I want the Vertex, but I'm not sure if the 130 is enough for the 90g and the omega 150 is just too expensive. The bubble magus however are in my price range, and the curve 7 is rated up to 230g which would give me more than double the power.
Let me know if anyone has experience with these.

 

[salpet]

tangster if you keep your fish strong and stress free you will get rid of ick, its always there so taking the fish out or treating them just does not work get some selcon and garlic extract soak your food with a drop of each feed you fish a little more and you will see great results, you will probably loose the weakest fish.

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

If you don't have a QT and can't afford one or don't have room I have been hearing that Safety Stop works very well at getting rid of external and internal parasites. It is not a perfect solution, but it is better than nothing. It is a 2-part dip. You put the fish in 1 gallon of water with Part-1 for a certain number of minutes then you put the fish in 1 gallon of water with Part-2 for a certain number of minutes.

It is marketed as an "Rapid Fish Quarantine" and a lot of very advanced reef keepers swear by it.

 

[Tangster]

Thank you for your advice, I know I need to keep them healthy and stress free etc. I explained that my water quality is not up to par. I am trying to get advice on a new skimmer. Everyone has just ignored my last two questions on skimmers.


Vertex Omega 130 @$319.00
Ebay: $280.00
or

Bubble Magus Curve 5 @$209.00

or

Bubble Magus Curve 7 @$299.00

So which one should it be, I want the Vertex, but I'm not sure if the 130 is enough for the 90g and the omega 150 is just too expensive. The bubble magus however are in my price range, and the curve 7 is rated up to 230g which would give me more than double the power.
Let me know if anyone has experience with these.

 

[bonomo53]

The first two are gonna be too small. I would go with the curve 7 or look at other brands such as skimz or NYOS.

 

[Tangster]

okay, i did some more shopping, i can get the Vertex 130 and the Magus curve 7 for the same price on eBay @ $265, the vertex is a little cheaper actually. I have researched each of these skimmers, and it seems that the vertex is the better buy and many people use them on 90 gallon tanks. I know the Curve 7 will give me some "overkill", I'm just now sure how well it would compare to a vertex.
Please let me know what you guys think, i am still leaning towards the Vertex 130, I'm just skeptical. Does anyone have either of these skimmers? Should i go for a Vertex 150?

Skims
I looked at the skims skimmers, and i have no idea which model is best for a 90g reef. I found a Skimz SN123 Monzter Mini Monster for $185 new, that is rated for 140g. i also don't know anything about their reputation.

Quantum?
I also found a quantum 120 for $369.00
i would go for this skimmer if it is really worth it. any opinions?

 

[Silkyslim]

Run tank fallow for 72 days and treat all incoming fish with chloroquine phosphate. When adding anything wet i.e. Corals cuc qt is a must. That way ich will never be introduced in your set up. One drop of infected water is all it takes to &)(@ stuff up

 

[b-ridge]

@silkyskim-and where would someone get chloroquine phosphate from?

 

[greenstreet.1]

@silkyskim-and where would someone get chloroquine phosphate from?

You will need a scrip from a vet.


Onelove.