Nitrates in an SPS Tank

[NYPDFrogman]

The one thing that I find is that people with a higher fishload that really like to feed their fish are the ones with the higher nitrate levels. But its these same people that have the most beautifull tanks.

They also happen to be the people with perfect husbandry.

Ideally I would like my reef to be dominated by sps and also have a school of chromis amongst other fish. At what point does it become too much? What are the limits?

It seems that most conventional wisdom regarding reeftanks gets thrown out the window as peoples expertees grow.

I have a rather large fish population and fed heavy, everday. there is a constant supply of red laver(nori) and usually fed a combo of prime reef, myiss,planton, angel formula,
I have zero nitrates and zero poshates (lamotte test kits)
I do have a lot of cheato, mangroves and zenia in my fuge.
I have good coral growth ( IMO) and good color

my orp averages in the mid 400MV with no Ozone
I do run 2 lbs of carbon in a home made reactor.
this is a great thread!


I do think a mix of fish and corals helps to maintain a healthier more natural tank

 

[herman]

Sollby, is there any way you can summarize what the articles for the scientifically challenged peeps:sleepy:
Thanks dude!!

 

[charliethetuna88]

i can do a millon water changes and with my deep sand bed my nitates are still 20ppms my coral is doing great

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

That's was my turf when I was a young

I am going to buy some discus soon :lol:.

I know it's off topic but just can't resist to express myself when I see other people raise King of Aquarium.

I used to breed different colors for my family to sell. Make sure you post pics.

I am was one of the earliest to cross breed discus and generate electric blue after "Walles"-forgot his exact name. Nowadays, they are so many different colors. Amazing.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Deanos you are good!

Full Article

How the heck do you do it?
__________________
Paul

ditto

You are one hell of a human robotic library. You get me the composition chart of the mud in no time!:shocked1:

 

[jhale]

this thread scared me into testing my NO3, they are 2 mg/L, phew.

I have not kept up with my water changes, only one 40 gallon change in the past three months. I keep a large bag of ESV carbon in a semi passive media flow through chamber in the sump, and I have one fluidized reactor stuffed with phosban.

In the past the NO3 was not detectable, I feed my fish quite a bit of food, but I also have a large clean up crew I know needs to eat. I actually want some algae to grow in my tank, otherwise I'm afraid the 300 plus snails and hermits you all made me buy will starve Not to mention the three serpent stars hanging out on the marina board like little five armed beggars.

Most of you have seen my tank, I get decent growth and decent color. I have a bunch of fish that are fat and I have to clean the glass every two days. I never considered a small amount of NO3 to be a problem. I'm amazed by the levels that Pierce has and how great his system looks.

I have not read the articles linked in the thread yet so I can't get into discussing their details, I can only offer up my observations on my own tank.

I am also a member of the S.S.A , small skimmers anonymous. lol.

Rich I"m planning on adding a slightly larger skimmer soon, maybe one of daves super skimmer mods, or something of my own creation. Do you think a skimmer twice the capacity of my present one will do anything for my tank in terms of NO3 ? I'm guessing it might knock then down to 0, but if Pierce has 40 mg/L , what's the point? Just playing :sgrin: advocate...

 

[ShaunW]

After reading the research articles, I would have to say that a little bit of nitrate isn't nessesarily a bad thing.

What is amazing is that these articles fly in the face of present hobbist/reefkeeper dogmas.

 

[ShaunW]

Sollby, is there any way you can summarize what the articles for the scientifically challenged peeps:sleepy:
Thanks dude!!

I will try, but your asking for quite alot of written prose (and biological background), so I will do it over time with hopefully other members adding their input along the way.

 

[ShaunW]

To begin I would like to compare phytoplankton populations and zooxanthellae populations on oligotrophic (nutrient limited) reefs. What is extremely interesting, and very important regarding nitrate and phosphate, is that the biomass of zooxanthellae are many orders of magnitude greater than the surrounding phytoplankton present in the water column (planktonic algae).

You can see the cellular density in the tables below from Cook and D'elia, 1987.

So I don't want to give everything on a silver platter, , what would you consider the implications of this?

 

[prattreef]

You can tell he is back in front of the classroom this semester I'll bite. Their higher biomass density requires increased availability of Nitrogen and Phosphorous to maintain themselves? Randy

 

[ShaunW]

EXACTLY!!! and they are able to utilize more nitrogen and phosphorous then the surrounding non-symbiotic algae.

 

[prattreef]

Might different clades of Zoox have different requirements re. Phos. and Nit. in part explaining why certain species of coral do well in some conditions/systems and poorly in others?

 

[ShaunW]

Additionally the growth rates of zooxanthellae are dependent on the external environment.

In HIGH nutient environments - zooxanthellae grow slower.
In LOW nutrient environments (like a coral reef) - zooxanthellae grow faster.

Thinking about this you may think to yourself "this doesn't make sense!!" from first glance. For example, you would be correct to think that if there are more nutrients around living things should grow faster! RIGHT?? but in the case of symbiotic algae the opposite seems to be true.

 

[ShaunW]

Might different clades of Zoox have different requirements re. Phos. and Nit. in part explaining why certain species of coral do well in some conditions/systems and poorly in others?

Well Yes, but let's not go there yet. But I am still talking in general, i.e. similarities between all the symbiotic zoox.

 

[kimoyo]

Additionally the growth rates of zooxanthellae are dependent on the external environment.

In HIGH nutient environments - zooxanthellae grow slower.
In LOW nutrient environments (like a coral reef) - zooxanthellae grow faster.

Thinking about this you may think to yourself "this doesn't make sense!!" from first glance. For example, you would be correct to think that if there are more nutrients around living things should grow faster!

I was just trying to figure this out.

Are you talking about growth or cell division?

 

[prattreef]

Sorry for speaking out of turn I see the logical conclusion, now please explain why it is the opposite.

 

[ShaunW]

I was just trying to figure this out.

Are you talking about growth or cell division? Because I thought growth increased in high nutrients but cell division increased in low nutrient environments + light.

Paul in this case I would consider that: Growth = Cell division.

The KEY is the host cell! Remember zoox live in a special home, they are inside of a coral living happily in a protected and regulated environment.

I guess we need a working definition of symbiosis, let me go find a good one, or if someone would like to help out, ?

 

[alrha]

21 fish, po4 is .02 on a hanna meter

hanna makes a PO4 meter? is it good?
(i've been using the Deltec(Merk) test kit)

 

[Deanos]

I guess we need a working definition of symbiosis, let me go find a good one, or if someone would like to help out, ?

Symbiosis

 

[ShaunW]

From the article:

Growth rate is probably density-dependent, as growth rates of zoox in situ appear to be greatest in conditions of low population density. This has been observed both in natural hosts with different population densities and in experimental infections of algae-free hosts. While one interpretation is that more "space" is available, we propose that host catabolism provides a greater relative supply of nutrients for symbionts at low population densities. Moveover, the achieveable algal biomass of the symbiosis will depend on the supply of "new" nutrients to the symbiosis.