Who is Responsible?!?

[JHOV2324]

No More REEFER on REEFER Crime....

 

[scarf_ace1981]

jhov you've officially become the new ink.

 

[SlamaJama]

This is me speaking as a brett, not as a mod.

The facts as we know them so far:

Mike, you checked out the fish in person. You picked it out and bought it. You took it home, it eventually died, for whatever reason. We the readers of this thread haven't heard why it's dead. Did it jump? did one of your other wrasses bully it? was it sick with a parasite that you couldn't see? We don't know. All we know is your fish died. You contacted the vendor who offered a decent deal to get you another one. Sure, it's an expensive fish. But that's the chance you take. If you lost a $4 chromis would you have started this thread?

You bought the fish knowing there was no written replacement guarantee. Just like most brick and mortar stores around here, there's ZERO replacement on saltwater fish. And you choose to get the fish from Michael because you can see before you buy, you get a really good deal, and you're supporting the vendors of the site. Any of these reasons and more are why we like local vendors.

He made you an offer to get you another fish. He would have made $0 on the deal. You would have gotten a fish at HIS cost. Granted. Paying over $100 for a fish and having it die sucks. But that's part of this hobby. It's part of taking care of a tank. Things do die. Every time something dies in my tank I figure out why. I also don't BLAME someone else for what goes on in my tank. Without a full autopsy on your fish we can't tell why it died. It's not your fault, it's not his fault. We can't prove he sold you a sick fish, we can't prove that your husbandry killed the fish. We also know that you have other wrasses in your care that are doing well. We know that Michael has sold other fish from the same batch that are doing well.

So instead of pointing fingers, maybe we should drop this thread before it gets locked.

Mike (slamma) you know I like you and have your back. But when someone offers to make $0 on TWO fish he should have profited on, that's a GREAT deal. Granted, maybe paying that extra made that fish 'not worth it' Maybe that extra cash would have broken the budget. thre are many times in the past that I skipped dinner to get something for my tank. It happens. we're ALL addicted to this EXPENSIVE hobby. But there's also times you get a really good deal on something. Its an ebb and flow that happens.

AS A MOD:

there's a lot of good points in this thread. if we continue those choice discussions I don't think this thread will get closed. There's a very active thead in the admin forum discussing this thread. We're all watching.

B

dont you think knowing me,that i would have accepted such an amazing deal if it had been offered?!? this never has come up untill this thread, i question his honesty on this point of cost, ive done my research on his so called cost price....

 

[JHOV2324]

Wtf...

WOW...that is crazy...

Which brings me to post one of my favorite pics

 

[Deanos]

jhov you've officially become the new ink.

Ewww :dead1: He's been Inked

 

[JHOV2324]

Everybody is the new ink to scarf...... :tired:....

 

[loismustdie]

Thanks Josh, I figured I was going to hear it for that one. But I have to disagree with your last statement.

This is me speaking as a brett, not as a mod.

I hate to say this Brett and Josh, but you cannot wear both hats. Look through the thread. Every time a members says something, he is met with rebuttals. When you read posts by mods, they are followed by a chorus or praise. Basically ass kissing. Pretty pathetic.
This is why I say Mods cannot be vendors. There is a habit on this site and many others to kiss ass with mods. I'm not sure why. When a Mod is a vendor, he automatically has favoritism from the members.
Also, a mod should be and experienced member who can provide advice. So now, am I talking to a mod who genuinely wants me to succeed, or a vendor who is trying to sell me something?
I see it's guys like me and Marrone get most aggravated with the vendors when these discussions pop up because we dedicate time and effort into this site to provide sound advice with no personal gain (because that is what these sites should be for. Sharing information) while the vendors put very little work or effort into the site, yet make money off of it.

 

[ShaunW]

Chris,
Correct me if I am wrong, but on RC many of the vendors are mods. Take Habib! the CEO of Salifert. He is extremely fair and reasonble and is a mod there. He was the voice of reason when I got banned from RC to rein-state me.

Many discussions occur behind the scenes on MR. All major decisions are discussed. Jim is just one of many voices! he is unable to do anything that is not approved by the majority of mods on the site. In fact, since he has become a vendor, he actually has made his voice less than before.

I don't see any conflict yet, but I do agree with many of the points made here, i.e. signatures, vendors buying goods from hobbists only to turn them around to others for profit, etc.

We really are trying/have tried to work hard to make this place the best reefing site for the Tri-state area, and "reef world". Sometimes I want to quit, since this place takes too much time and energy for not much in return. Being a mod. isn't easy because I am constantly quelling my personallity to keep the peace. So I don't consider the job something to envy.

 

[michael stern]

dont you think knowing me,that i would have accepted such an amazing deal if it had been offered?!? this never has come up untill this thread, i question his honesty on this point of cost, ive done my research on his so called cost price....

Your joking, right?????

Mods, Josh, powers that be.

If you have the ability to pull my pms and print them unedited, you have my permission to do so. I know $120 is a lot of money (note the lack of flame wrasses in my personal tank), but it seems to be driving slama over the edge.

 

[loismustdie]

Take Habib! the CEO of Salifert. He is extremely fair and reasonble.

Thank you Shaun. My point exactly. Salifert is considered gods gift to test kits on RC. Look at the movement to Hanna on this board.
You guys make this too easy.

 

[SlamaJama]

Thanks Josh, I figured I was going to hear it for that one. But I have to disagree with your last statement.

So now, am I talking to a mod who genuinely wants me to succeed, or a vendor who is trying to sell me something?

Chris, asking the tough questions with some hard answers, man looks like these issues are gonna come out into the open kicking and screaming...:kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

 

[ShaunW]

Thank you Shaun. My point exactly. Salifert is considered gods gift to test kits on RC. Look at the movement to Hanna on this board.
You guys make this too easy.

I'm not taking about his test kits, but him as a person. He is fair, I know first hand from personal experience.

The hobby changes with time. There was no Hanna meter a couple of years ago that I knew about. It was a big deal to even get the Salifert Phosphate test kit. Only last year there were discussions that high phosphate are not a big problem for keeping SPS. I was part of that discussion with Bomber and others, and "YES" we all now know that it affects calcification. So my point is that it is all relative, Salifert kit were the best (probably because of no competition) and I am sure that Habib will catch up but this is overall great for reefkeeping, i.e. advancement of the hobby. But that still doesn't take away that he is a good mod there.

 

[Wes]

Thank you Shaun. My point exactly. Salifert is considered gods gift to test kits on RC. Look at the movement to Hanna on this board.
You guys make this too easy.

It's pretty much common knowledge over on RC that the Salifert Phosphate kit is garbage, there are people who have been using Hanna for phosphate tests for quite a while over there.

I actually saw the movement to Hanna over there first.

 

[marrone]

On the subject of Mod being Vendors, I've had a # of people complain to me that Jim is a vendor and a Mod also. The feel that if they have a problem with Jim or Russ they can't say anything as they're afraid that they'll be blackball on the board.

 

[loismustdie]

Where did I say RC is perfect? You know the best thing about this site? I see a tank I like, I hop in my car and get a closer look. Can't do that on RC. I never even mentioned RC on MR. I'm not comparing.
I use vendors, the LFS and internet for purchases. I'll continue to use all of them. The problems here are, the vendors have done nothing more than become the LFS these saviors of the hobby claim they are fighting against. They made their way into every thread. Their advertisements are all over the place. MR has been turned into petco. Info is rarely shared anymore.
Honestly, I expect to see the vendors post in every thread in the market place. It's the way they made their way into everything else.
I'm also not talking about all the vendors. I have to lump them together because I'm trying not to show favoritism on the open forums.

 

[Pedro]

Just my opinion but at this point i think Josh should just open up a thread where these Vendor rules/suggestions/policies can be discussed and corrected.

This thread was between two individuals but had branched out. It's a matter that can be resolved through PM's between the two parties. Frankly i think this thread As Is has become more of a soap opera. More good can be done by having these discussions on a separate thread. I think it's time to close it for now and let's work on ironing out the suggestions the members have brought up!

Since both parties cannot come to a conclusion at this time, this thread seems useless at this point.

Nobody wins here, we have a dead fish, a loss of $120, questioning of characters, etc!

:dead:

 

[ShaunW]

Where did I say RC is perfect? You know the best thing about this site? I see a tank I like, I hop in my car and get a closer look. Can't do that on RC. I never even mentioned RC on MR. I'm not comparing.

I brought it up just so show that vendors can be successful mods, that's all.

I use vendors, the LFS and internet for purchases. I'll continue to use all of them. The problems here are, the vendors have done nothing more than become the LFS these saviors of the hobby claim they are fighting against. They made their way into every thread. Their advertisements are all over the place. MR has been turned into petco. Info is rarely shared anymore.
Honestly, I expect to see the vendors post in every thread in the market place. It's the way they made their way into everything else.
I'm also not talking about all the vendors. I have to lump them together because I'm trying not to show favoritism on the open forums.

I totally agree with you on this one. Any WTB thread and before any hobbist can respond there is a vendor post. But it is their right to post up that they have an item. I don't see how we can have it both ways, keep them in a box right up until the moment someone wants something no one else has?. I don't feel that is fair either. Ultimately it is up to the individual reefer to chose where to place his/her hard earned money.

 

[Salesbig]

Just my opinion but at this point i think Josh should just open up a thread where these Vendor rules/suggestions/policies can be discussed and corrected.

I think youre wrong.. i dont think MR should have anything with any of the vendors policies. What else should mr do? decide who to sell to?
The vendors should be the policies of the vendors..

Wasnt this thread closed? how did get opened again?

This whole thing sucks.. mike and mike have an agreement on the table, no matter if it came before or after this thread.
I think its very fair. If they both agree..
And mods shouldnt vendors for the most obvious reasons..

Thats it.. enough.. lets all get along

:grouphug:

 

[loismustdie]

Maybe you mis read me Shaun, I think they should be allowed to post all over the market place. If someone is looking to buy something, they should be able to scoop it up if they want to.
I'm really not a big RC guy, so I don't care either way with them.
This isn't about RC. It's MR.

 

[Salesbig]

And if slama doesnt want a new fish. maybe mike can give the profit back to slama..
Fair is fair..