Let's Use Real Names!

[GSchiemer]

Greg:

Another Greg, Greg Hiller, started this same thread a couple of years ago here. I think it had about the same response.

Randy

Randy,

I know Greg Hiller. We've traded frags. He's a very good reef aquarist.

I anticipated the responses in this thread and sort of asked for it. I think it's a worthwhile debate, as long as it's argued on the bases of fact and experience and not fiction. As so often happens, when you request substantiation, the debate degenerates into this mess.

Greg Schiemer

Ps: Nice to see you here! It gives me hope.

 

[Tom Freeman]

Greg,
I couldn't agree with you more. I am a Fishnet member also so maybe we are all crazy. If you want to start flame war #2 could you please ask people why they have to have those ridiculous non-aquarium graphics and phrases that repeat as part of their signature line after every reply? I guess I am too serious but I really don't appreciate a post that has fewer reef-related words than the amount of exra "junk" that gets included! FWIW I do find interesting information on reefs.org if you can filter out all of the extra stuff!

 

[O P Ing]

...I really don't appreciate a post that has fewer reef-related words than the amount of exra "junk" that gets included! ...

hi.
I agree with you that there are certain people that got carried away with avatar and sig, and don't really have much substance in the post body (that is, in regard to reef, check out The Sump as well as this thread :wink: ). However, keep in mind that both is what make each of the posters different, instead of a just plan black characters. Think of it as your handwriting... everybody is different, but can't show it with identical font on a computer screen.

I guess you must wear uniform back in your school days? How do you like the suit I am wearing?

 

[Anonymous]

On another note, it's nice to see another familiar name here, which further illustrates my point.

I think your point is you want to see names you recognize, not that you care about people using their real names.
I submit, again, that if you are interacting with someone for the first time it makes no difference what name they use because that is the name you know them by.

I anticipated the responses in this thread and sort of asked for it. I think it's a worthwhile debate, as long as it's argued on the bases of fact and experience and not fiction. As so often happens, when you request substantiation, the debate degenerates into this mess.

What mess, and what have substantiation have you asked for?

I've practically made a second career out of helping other marine aquarists through my participation on various forums, my articles, and numerous speaking engagements. To accuse me of being an "elitist" is absurd and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in this arena.

I submit that this paragraph, and especially the last sentence, is, at least right on the verge of being 'elitist'.

RR

 

[Anonymous]

Greg,
I couldn't agree with you more. I am a Fishnet member also so maybe we are all crazy. If you want to start flame war #2 could you please ask people why they have to have those ridiculous non-aquarium graphics and phrases that repeat as part of their signature line after every reply? I guess I am too serious but I really don't appreciate a post that has fewer reef-related words than the amount of exra "junk" that gets included! FWIW I do find interesting information on reefs.org if you can filter out all of the extra stuff!

With respect, even though you have insulted me, if you really don't like it so much, why do you even bother to post/read here?

RR

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I guess it is just who you know. I have read tons of posts by OP Ing and Righty and feel like I know them fairly well, real names or not.

Tom Freeman, on the other hand, I don't know from Adam, or if thats even his real name!

 

[Marrowbone]

I think that being able to use a so-called "wacky name" is a good thing. It allows a person to create a new, possibly more recognizable identity, and to just have fun. The BEAUTY of using non reef-related avatars here is that it allows them to be more unique. If we all had a picture of a fish or anemone on a reef bulletin board, we would all look the same. Use a reef avatar on a bulletin board dedicated to one of your other interests to distinguish yourself over there!

I am fairly new to the concept of discussing reefs on the web. I basically don't recognize any names as being "authoritative" people. No one is absolutely correct about anything, and everything must constantly be questioned and tested in a scientific manner in order to draw the most accurate and current conclusions about anything.

Granted, I am initially more inclined to give more weight to the opinions of those who use what seem to be real names, but really I draw my conclusions based on the content of what they say.

On spelling... Not only is bad spelling and grammar difficult to read, it takes some of the poster's credibility away. Good spelling and grammar commands a certain measure of respect because it shows that the author cares about his words.

I think there are a very large number of people in this forum that fall very much in between being a "serious and dedicated aquarist" and a "manufacturer's rep [in disguise]" The beauty of this place is that a very large number of people can chime in with their own experiences, giving a person a large pool of data to examine. The more responses there are, the better, right? Throw out the data that is way off to the extreme in either way, average the rest, add a pinch of common sense and there you go.

For a novice (such as myself) I find it to be equally valuable to hear of the experiences of fellow novices who may have situations similar to mine.

 

[GSchiemer]

Greg,
I couldn't agree with you more. I am a Fishnet member also so maybe we are all crazy. If you want to start flame war #2 could you please ask people why they have to have those ridiculous non-aquarium graphics and phrases that repeat as part of their signature line after every reply? I guess I am too serious but I really don't appreciate a post that has fewer reef-related words than the amount of exra "junk" that gets included! FWIW I do find interesting information on reefs.org if you can filter out all of the extra stuff!

Tom,

I recognize you from Fishnet. Good to see you here.

IMO, this is the highest quality forum on reef related topics at the moment, which is why I've begun to frequent it. Well, that and the fact that I write for the sister publication, Advanced Aquarist Online. I followed Terry Siegel here after Fancy Publications pulled the plug on Advanced Aquarist.

I can do without the silly pictures and the "philosophy" at the end of posts as well, but it doesn't bother me as much as the anonymous posts. IMO, you give up a lot more anonymity by having your name in a phone book than by using it here!

Greg Schiemer

 

[GSchiemer]

I think your point is you want to see names you recognize, not that you care about people using their real names.

No, I've never said this. I like making new reef buddies. Read what I said at the top of the thread. Don't "guess" at my motivation. I SAID that the use of real names discourages "flaming" and encourages more serious exchanges. I feel that anonymity promotes incivility and can serve to mask someone with a hidden agenda. Period.

Greg Schiemer

 

[Chucker]

I followed Terry Siegel here after Fancy Publications pulled the plug on Advanced Aquarist.

Pssst.... You mean Aquarium Frontiers :wink:

 

[GSchiemer]

I followed Terry Siegel here after Fancy Publications pulled the plug on Advanced Aquarist.

Pssst.... You mean Aquarium Frontiers :wink:

Oh, yea.

 

[Anonymous]

No, I've never said this. I like making new reef buddies. Read what I said at the top of the thread. Don't "guess" at my motivation. I SAID that the use of real names discourages "flaming" and encourages more serious exchanges. I feel that anonymity promotes incivility and can serve to mask someone with a hidden agenda. Period.

I did read what you said at the top of the thread. I am not guessing at your motivation, rather I am looking at what you have written and chosen to use as 'further illustrations of your point'. Several times you have 'recognized' someone and used that recognition as support for your position, while such recognition in no way supports your 'period' statements above.

I mostly disagree with your views on anonymity (and even question that such anonymity exists, because with a couple of clicks you could find out a whole bunch about me and most other people on this board - including our 'real' names), and would like to remind you that this is a board for professionals and non professionals alike; many people here would be less interested in taking part in discussions if they became simply serious as you advocate. I do however, hope that you will put your money where your mouth is and only post 'serious' messages.

I am still interested in how you think this discussion has 'degenerated into this mess', and what the 'substantiation' that you asked for and never recieved was.

 

[Anonymous]

good god, righty! don't tell him to only post serious posts. ferchrissakes, then everyone in the world will be thinking that anyone who is into fish in any way is nothing but a geek and a bore.

greg, you don't want to be a bore, do you? and certainly not a boor, either, eh?

i do, in many respects, absolutely agree with marrow, however, along with grammar and spelling many folks would jump my train for not properly using capitalization. the problem is, i just can't be arsed. you know, when the thoughts are flowing and the fingers get going....

also, i've been jumped more than once for cracking on someone's spelling, just cuz ya cain't spell don't mean yer stupid, do it? but, if you've got a degree and you can't spell, i want to know HOW you got that degree. LOULE!!

btw, my av is a seamonkey. you guys remember those? i think that it not only suits me very well, it's funny that it is also somewhat "aquatics" related. but, mostly, i'm with marrow, i like to see diversity.

 

[GSchiemer]

No, I've never said this. I like making new reef buddies. Read what I said at the top of the thread. Don't "guess" at my motivation. I SAID that the use of real names discourages "flaming" and encourages more serious exchanges. I feel that anonymity promotes incivility and can serve to mask someone with a hidden agenda. Period.

I did read what you said at the top of the thread. I am not guessing at your motivation, rather I am looking at what you have written and chosen to use as 'further illustrations of your point'. Several times you have 'recognized' someone and used that recognition as support for your position, while such recognition in no way supports your 'period' statements above.

I mostly disagree with your views on anonymity (and even question that such anonymity exists, because with a couple of clicks you could find out a whole bunch about me and most other people on this board - including our 'real' names), and would like to remind you that this is a board for professionals and non professionals alike; many people here would be less interested in taking part in discussions if they became simply serious as you advocate. I do however, hope that you will put your money where your mouth is and only post 'serious' messages.

I am still interested in how you think this discussion has 'degenerated into this mess', and what the 'substantiation' that you asked for and never recieved was.

The fact that I was familiar with the names of some "real" people enabled me to immediately recognize that they are experienced and serious aquarists. These are people that have been on other message boards for many years under the SAME name. I understand that if I remain on these boards for some years and you continue to be "righty," then I will recognize you as well, but this doesn't help newcomers to this board, including me. For all I know you may have frequented various boards for many years and have great skills as an aquarist, but that's not apparent to me and I'm not going to take the time to weed through your previous posts. Perhaps you're "lefty" and have been a staff member of the AOL boards for 5 years, but who would know that. Now, if you were "John Smith" from Florida from AOL or Fishnet, I might immediately know something about you as an aquarist, and that’s beneficial. That's the best I can do for an explanation.

As for 'degenerated into this mess,' these repetitious posts and those in the related tang thread (http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24596) speak for themselves.

As for “substantiation,” I was referring to the posting under the “tang” thread and the fact that it’s easy to give glib answers when no one knows who you are. When I challenged the “glib answer,” the discussion degenerated into personal attacks.

Greg Schiemer

 

[Anonymous]

The fact that I was familiar with the names of some "real" people enabled me to immediately recognize that they are experienced and serious aquarists.

But this has nothing to do with 'real' names. If you did know me as Righty from another board would it really matter if you knew my real name or not?

These are people that have been on other message boards for many years under the SAME name.

OK, now we are making progress. You would like people to always use the same name across different boards so it will be easier to know who is who. While that may be a great idea, it will never happen - different boards are different for a reason.

I understand that if I remain on these boards for some years and you continue to be "righty," then I will recognize you as well, but this doesn't help newcomers to this board, including me.

If my screen name was Bill Johnson, who would that help newcomers to this board any more then my screen name being Righty? You have no idea who people you don't already know are, so advocating 'real' names seems pointless. What you seem to actually want is consistancy across boards, and, again, it ain't gonna happen.

For all I know you may have frequented various boards for many years and have great skills as an aquarist, but that's not apparent to me and I'm not going to take the time to weed through your previous posts.

Same for you. I don't know who you are, but I still will read your posts and see if they contain good info. If you don't know someone, under any name at all, you still have to figgure out if you want to trust them. This is why many people lurk for a time on new boards; to decide who seems to know what they are talking about.

Perhaps you're "lefty" and have been a staff member of the AOL boards for 5 years, but who would know that. Now, if you were "John Smith" from Florida from AOL or Fishnet, I might immediately know something about you as an aquarist, and that’s beneficial. That's the best I can do for an explanation.

I understand what you are talking about, but I don't think it has anything to do with 'real' names - it has to do with names *you* are already familliar with.

As for 'degenerated into this mess,' these repetitious posts and those in the related tang thread (http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24596) speak for themselves.

As for “substantiation,”....

Ah! I had no idea you were refering to different threads.

I was referring to the posting under the “tang” thread and the fact that it’s easy to give glib answers when no one knows who you are. When I challenged the “glib answer,” the discussion degenerated into personal attacks.

Gotcha. IME, this happens reagrdless of a person using a real name or a screen name.

I hope this exchange has not tainted our future communications. Welcome to RDO, I am happy you are here.

RR :mrgreen:

 

[shalegac]

SUMP!

 

[Expos Forever]

I have modified my sig to include my first name and initial and in fact did so early in this "debate".

GSchiemer wrote

Using a real first name and an initial is okay if someone is uncomfortable using their entire name.

I do feel it makes for a nice personal touch.

Tom Freeman wrote

Greg,
I couldn't agree with you more. I am a Fishnet member also so maybe we are all crazy. If you want to start flame war #2 could you please ask people why they have to have those ridiculous non-aquarium graphics and phrases that repeat as part of their signature line after every reply? I guess I am too serious but I really don't appreciate a post that has fewer reef-related words than the amount of exra "junk" that gets included! FWIW I do find interesting information on reefs.org if you can filter out all of the extra stuff!

Please! Nice of someone with 3 posts to ridicule people who have helped countless new reefers. People like OP Ing, Vitz, Righty and others... "Ridiculous" non-aquarium graphics and avatars aside they have proven to be "experienced and serious aquarists" (to quote your friend Greg) more than you have around these parts at least. My personal ridiculous phrase sig is from the song Ripple written by Jerry Garcia and Robert Hunter. Nothing to do reefing no, but will tell Joe Blow from Cleveland more about me personally than my real name ever would. Unless Joe Blow happens to be in the aviation industry. I will change this when my keyboard is pried from my cold dead hands, if only as a matter of principal.

So let me get this right people must use their real names but cannot show any individuality at all. Maybe RO should remove the sig/avatar options and provide a default one. I vote for a nice pic of a clownfish.

GScheimer wrote

Erik,

I've practically made a second career out of helping other marine aquarists through my participation on various forums, my articles, and numerous speaking engagements. To accuse me of being an "elitist" is absurd and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in this arena.

University professors make a FIRST living from giving lectures, participating in forums and publishing articles. Believe me, some are elitist, I've had a couple. I'm sure you've helped countless people Greg but your attitude concerning who should post and give advice, and name-dropping, to me at least, is proof-positive.

From dictionary.com

2 entries found for elitist.
e•lit•ism or é•lit•ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-ltzm, -l-)
n.
1)The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

2) a.The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
b.Control, rule, or domination by such a group or class.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
e•litist adj. & n.

IMO the group or class appears to be Fishnet forum and anyone else Greg has recognized as "experienced and serious aquarists".

Doug,

It's nice to see a name that I recognize! Your post illustrates my point. I wasn't going to respond to this post until I saw your name at the bottom.

IMO, you give up a lot more anonymity by having your name in a phone book than by using it here!

I think the point Greg is when on the internet you really never know who you're dealing. So, hypothetically speaking of course :roll: , you get involved in a flame war on-line that person can't say I'm going to harass Joefishboy. I realize most "hackers" can still find you if they wanted to, it just makes things a bit more difficult. I do believe hackers are more prevalent and this is more likely to happen in a forum with heated exchanges than people who pick names randomly from phone books.That being said I chose my "wacky” name strictly to tell people just a little bit about myself as opposed to privacy concerns.

For all I know you may have frequented various boards for many years and have great skills as an aquarist, but that's not apparent to me and I'm not going to take the time to weed through your previous posts.

IMO this is your loss. Since I don't know anybody here, I lurked and read for quite a while before ever posting a single word. Righty,Greg Scheimer,Julian Sprung, aquariast=broke , IP Freely and Joe Smith all had the same credibility regarding reefing to me before I ever picked up a book or stumbled upon RO and RC.

A couple other random thoughts:



DanConnor: Even though I have previously visited your web site I somehow was under the impression you were just a Roseanne fan...

Righty and Marrowbone: Well said. Thank you for articulating some of my thoughts apparently better than I can.

Regarding the tang thread. I will assume you are not speaking about me in regards to in-civility. I whole-heartedly agree I would rather have you care for my tang in a 20 gallon than have my neighbour (who doesn't know a reef tank from a septic tank) care for it in a 500 gallon. I only stated your half-acre aquarium argument was a bit ill-conceived. My opinion simply remains bigger is better when the same quality of care is involved.

Greg, I will drop this issue because I would truly hate to drive out someone with your experience from this board. I will simply have to learn to bite my tongue

 

[GSchiemer]

But this has nothing to do with 'real' names. If you did know me as Righty from another board would it really matter if you knew my real name or not?

If my screen name was Bill Johnson, who would that help newcomers to this board any more then my screen name being Righty? You have no idea who people you don't already know are, so advocating 'real' names seems pointless. What you seem to actually want is consistancy across boards, and, again, it ain't gonna happen.

There's a lot to say for real names and consistency. For example, as soon as I saw Mitch Gibbs post here, I knew that he is the Mitch Gibbs that visited my home; that I've met at MACNA on a few occasions; that owns a store; that markets the Aquatic Revolution system, etc. I suspect that many newcomers would know Mitch as well. In addition, because I used my real name, Mitch and many others here immediately knew me! If I had only seen the "dizzy' handle, Mitch's post would have meant very little to me. If I had posted as "Mr. Reef" no one would have recognized me. Real names DO matter. They can provide a lot of information about a person.

I hope this exchange has not tainted our future communications. Welcome to RDO, I am happy you are here.

I have no problems with this exchange. I do this for fun and learned a long time ago not to take this stuff too seriously. I save the stress for my real job

Greg Schiemer

 

[GSchiemer]

I'm sure you've helped countless people Greg but your attitude concerning who should post and give advice, and name-dropping, to me at least, is proof-positive.

Again with the personal attacks. I NEVER said you or anyone shouldn't be allowed to post. I commented on the quality of your post, which I felt was a glib remark to a serious question. You're entitled to your opinions, as long as you represent them as such and not statements of fact.

As for name-dropping, if recognizing Mitch Gibbs is name-dropping, then I plead guilty

Greg

 

[GSchiemer]

I'm sure you've helped countless people Greg but your attitude concerning who should post and give advice, and name-dropping, to me at least, is proof-positive.

Again with the personal attacks. That says more about a person than any name.

BTW, I NEVER said you or anyone shouldn't be allowed to post. I commented on the quality of your post, which I felt was a glib remark to a serious question. You're entitled to your opinions, as long as you represent them as such and not statements of fact.

As for name-dropping, if recognizing Mitch Gibbs is name-dropping, then I plead guilty

Greg