I THINK I HAVE ICH!!!!

[Anonymous]

hmmm....

our standard treatment for brooklynella is a f/w + formalin dip, for a 10 min minimum, or until the clown shows 'severe' stress-then placed back in the system that already has Cu in the water, w/an occasional 'shot' of formalin washed through the tank, every few hours, while the tank is on system.

seems to work rather well

some also like to also add a gentle antibiotic, like e.m., to help avoid secondary bact. infection

 

[Terry B]

Manny.
It is interesting that your fish seem to be getting better with hypo and FW dips if they have brooklynella. As you know, I prefer formalin dips. I think formalin dips are more effective and less stressful than FW dips. I don't see anything wrong with treating your fish with hypo during their initial quarantine period and then giving them a formalin dip or FW dip also. Hyposalinity does not kill every type of external parasite. It does a good job knocking out ich and it seems to help with some other parasites as well, but it's not a bad idea to give them a dip for other possible parasites if you are concerned about them. The most common trouble-maker is ich though.
Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

zooman maybe you should change you rname to the contradiction king.

You clearly state that

"The addition of a new fish will ALWAYS stress those around it, they compete for food, territory even the increased bio load on the tank is going to put some stress on the fish."


Then you say


"Obviously I didn't mean that EVERY fish will compete for food, however it is a possibility that fish will compete for food and this COULD BE a cause of stress. Yes every fish you add adds to the bioload. You think that just because it is small it doesnt add to the bioload?"

So zoo I am trying to be very very specific. You have already said that not every fish will compete with one and another for food. But you are still saying that adding a neon goby to a mature 180 which presently houses 3 fish will be a stressful event because of the increased bioload?

A simple yes or no will do. Does anyone think the addition of the neon goby will be a stressful event to the 3 fish in the 180 because of the increased bioload?

Can anyone point a point of refernce that will support this theory?

len, jim do you care to give us your take?

You can call me the king of contradiction, but perhaps you should be the joker of poor reading and comprehension and silly posts. Yes even a neon goby will add to the bioload of a mature 180, any fish will. However as it is a small fish the added bioload will be smaller. Therefore the stress will be less, this fish will also not compete with food with the other fish and probably not compete for territory.

 

[TheZooFarmer]

so zoo correct me if I am wrong

you just said that if you add a neon goby to a 180 with a tang, trigger, and angel this woud be a stressful event???????????

truly puzzling

that has to be one of the top 5 worst statements I have ever read

 

[Anonymous]

ZF, I have come to the conclusion that you make a point of being as contentious as you possibly can. I think you gain a great degree of enjoyment out of belittling others, yet have no idea how it destroys your own credibility.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes of course it would be. Obviosly there are different amounts of stress, this would be on the low end of the scale.

 

[TheZooFarmer]

sea maiden do you think adding a neon goby to a 180 with a tang,trigger, and angel woul dcause stress to these 3 fish?

 

[TheZooFarmer]

oh please sea maiden, wasnt it you who was reccomending fish without knowing the tank, nor the tanks occupants you were reccomending it for

was that not TOTALLY irresponsible on your part

needless to say you immediately confronted me and then after you knew the facts you agreed with everything I said?

I thought enough of the poster, and his fish to go the extra mile, WHEN NO ONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD WOULD

but since I tell him the truth that a 54 gallon corner tank is way to small for his choice of fish I become the bad guy

I suggest anyone who does not know the dimensions of a 54 coner to go to AGAs website and see that the tang does not even 3 feet to turn around and swim back and forth in.

 

[salt creepette]

I probably shouldn't give voice to this thought, but I can't help it after reading post after post (in this thread and others) by zoofarmer...

zoo, you may have good points sometimes, but you ARE self righteous, contentious, belittling, and arrogant, and no amount of your being right is going to change the impression you make in other people's eyes. unfortunately its just the way some people are which make the environment on this board (and this world) just a little less pleasant.

 

[StevenPro]

Yes, healthy fish in a stress-free aquarium can contract Cryptocaryon. I can give you one example, but there are many if you watch the boards. A good friend of mine added what was supposed to be the last fish to his 315 gallon reef tank. The tank held about a dozen fish, most in the 2-4" range except for a Powder Blue Tang (6-7"). Everyone was happy and healthy for several months. He then added a Copperbanded Butterflyfish. He did not quarantine this fish as he thought (incorrectly) that adding it to his reef display would be better for this delicate fish than placing it in a quarantine. The CB soon thereafter showed obvious signs of Ich, as then did eventually almost all the other fish. He tried adding Metronidazole to their food. Some fish ate it, some did not. He ended up losing the CB, PBT, and an Anampses sp. wrasse. So, yes healthy, stress-free fish can contract and die from Cryptocaryon. As I said, this is just one example. There are surely hundreds more.

 

[awigpot]

I have been reading and gaining wonderful knowledge from the discussion. I unfortunetly have only been able to reply at this moment due to school and work schedueling. I hate to inform all of you that the ich is gone or should i saw dormit. All i did was instill a strict protocol for the tanks parameters. Checking the temp, ph, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and specific gravity. Any skew from the norm results in an intervention tailored to the problem. Maybe this is what all of you are calling eliminating "stress". Being a nurse i see and take seriously the prevention factor somebody on this forum mentioned earlier on. Prevention is the best medicine for anything plus it is cheaper (especially for health care, but don't get me started) I guess i am practicing what i preach now that the outbreak is under control and i am vigoursly watching tank parameters to PREVENT stress which is now what i believe leads to ich. Look the little grasshopper is learning

 

[Terry B]

awigpot,
I hope that you are familar enough with the life cycle of ich to realize that the spots usually do go away for at least a few days. This has fooled a lot of people into thinking that the parasite is gone. It has to fall off of the fish before it can reproduce.
Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

Yikes! 8O

To elaborate on what TerryB posted above, the parasites must drop off and develope on the substrate before each one bursts forth with about 250 "baby" ichies looking for fish. Often it appears that the fish have been "cured" or have improved greatly, when in reality, every single spot that was on them is now developing into 250 more parasites.

The infestations come in waves because of this cycle. Each wave has 200 times more "parasites per gallon" than the last.

I really hope I'm wrong, but you may be facing a renewed attack in the next few days.

You should at least perform daily water changes and syphon the substrate. You may be able to eliminate a considerable amount of cysts and free floating parasites this way.

Hopefully, your nursing the tank will help your fish fight the ich off for good. Still, I prefer to know that there is no ich in my tank, rather than know that my fish are healthy enough to combat the ich that is there.

Good luck

 

[PeeJ]

Yea ZooFarmer is a meanie

 

[awigpot]

i have been watching my tank and no new infestations to report. I have come to the conclusion that there are many things that can happen when you try to contain a piece of nature. If you think about it the ocean is amazing and trying to reproduce it but 1:100000000000000000 of the scale we do an ok job. we (humans) could never keep up with every aspect of the ocean that nature takes care of automatically. THere are checks and balances in nature that we could never reproduce with platic and pumps and artifical lights, we try to SIMULATE sun raise and sun set, the tide, and natural filtration. WE could never accomplish what nature does and trying to if futile. So if all the fish are alive and seem happy i am ok with this.

 

[Anonymous]

I hate professing doom and, as I said, I hope I'm wrong; however, keep in mind that "wave two" needs at least a few days for the cysts to develope, a day or two for them to swim around the water, and another few days before you actually see them on the fish. So it may be a week from the time the spots vanished before you see more. Don't stress...just be prepared.

There are two schools of thought on ich. The first, your stated opinion, is that healthy fish will fight off ich. This is absolutely true. With your diligent care, perfect water, good nutrition, and zero stress, your fish may be able to swim through ich infested water and none of the parasites will attach to their healthy slime coated skin...then the numbers of parasites in the water will be reduced as they fail to find hosts.

The problem is that the parasites will always be there; one or two will always find a host and perpetuate their species in your tank. Then in two years your heater breaks while you're on a weekend vacation and the temperature drops five degrees....WHAM! Covered in spots.

Of course this is by no means guaranteed. Most likely healthy fish stay healthy. It's just a possibility.

The second school of thought is people who want those bastards out for good. They poison their fish in little tanks with PVC pipe and no skimmer and they let their reef be fishless for months to starve out the parasites...then they let their new fish sit in that ugly little tank for many weeks before they go into the reef, etc., etc., etc.

I like being the god of my little world and completely eradicating whichever animal I want to...ich genocide. :twisted:

I really hope that you don't experience the relapse that many people, including an inexperienced aquarist like myself, have seen. Keep up the nursing care.

Good luck