How much do you get at your LFS for frags?
- Thread starter liquid
- Start date
We generally do half price at store credit, sometimes half of the wholesale price on fish depending on the customer. The thing you have to realize about giving cash though is the fact that in many cases you are getting in critters from unknown sources. (Especially when dealing with fish trade-ins). If I "buy" a frag from an walk-in and it dies I'm out of luck on the purchase where as if I had bought the same thing from one of my regular suppliers I would at least have some one to complain to, and could possibly get a credit on it. So getting in frags locally is sometimes riskier and there for the price I'm willing to pay for them goes down, if I am simply trading store credit for retail purchases I am able to to essentially give more for them because of the extra padding the retail purchases gives the transaction. If I were to give straight cash the amount offered would be much less. Of course once someone becomes a regular trader and isn't always bringing in the same xenia, the rules change a bit.
knowse":2tcmjlda said:
knowse,
That really isn't exactly the way it is supposed to work. Items that are being purchased for resale can be bought tax exempt if you fill out the proper resale certificate Jenn mentioned. Most items that are purchased for store use are not tax exempt. This includes items like office supplies, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, etc. If it goes to the customer as part of the sale (like the sales receit or bag) it is tax deductable. Certain organizations like churches and schools do have the right to buy everything tax exempt, but that right is not extended to the retailers, at least not in Kentucky.
I need three things from some of you if this discussion should continue. I hope it does, as I find it very interesting. However, I am also happy to just stop after this post.
1) Stop taking this personally.
We went over this early in the thread, and are having a discussion to see where it leads.
2) Please don't put arguments into my posts that aren't there.
I never said anything about a hobbyist trying to realize profits from the sale of frags. I have been talking about the fairness of the assumption that LFS are granting us a boon by even considering taking in trades from hobbyists. If propagation really is the future, I think it would be great for LFS to support the process as a long term goal rather than simply trying to maximize profits in the short term.
3) And like I said in my very first post, I AGREE WITH YOU. I think LFS are doing me a service by taking my frags in trade, a service they do not have to provide. I also think, as I said in my first post, that it is fine for LFS to do whatever they want to in regards to frags. Their store, their rules. If they want to give 1 dollar store credit for every coral brought in regardless of anything, then it is their choice.
1) Stop taking this personally.
We went over this early in the thread, and are having a discussion to see where it leads.
2) Please don't put arguments into my posts that aren't there.
I never said anything about a hobbyist trying to realize profits from the sale of frags. I have been talking about the fairness of the assumption that LFS are granting us a boon by even considering taking in trades from hobbyists. If propagation really is the future, I think it would be great for LFS to support the process as a long term goal rather than simply trying to maximize profits in the short term.
3) And like I said in my very first post, I AGREE WITH YOU. I think LFS are doing me a service by taking my frags in trade, a service they do not have to provide. I also think, as I said in my first post, that it is fine for LFS to do whatever they want to in regards to frags. Their store, their rules. If they want to give 1 dollar store credit for every coral brought in regardless of anything, then it is their choice.
It's not about rights, but supply and demand. You have several options about where to take your frags. The lfs offers to pay what they are willing to pay, if you don't like their price or deal you are free to put your frags on the market to someone else, and likewise the lfs is free to do whatever they like with the frag once it has been traded in. On the other hand the lfs has many places to get livestock from, all the different wholesalers as well as frag traders. The lfs will pay the percieved value of the frag based on how much they could get the same item elsewhere. Xenia is difficult to ship which is why most lfs's will take it in trade. How much they are willing to pay for it is dependent on how much they can sell it for, and how much they have to spend to keep it alive long enough to sell. I couldn't sell a xenia frag for 30 bucks very quickly, I could for twenty so i might offer ten assuming I don't already have some. Keep in mind that the majority of people are all trying to frag the same stuff, (xenia, monti's, acros, etc.). When dealing with other trade ins my question is always "If you don't want it, what makes you think someone else would?"
Bottom line is most places just won't pay too much for a muffler.
When most people frag, they frag cuz there is too much stuff growig in their tank.The humanitarian thing to do with it s bring it to the lfs so someone else can enjoy it, and promotes captive propogated stock. I look at it as the customer getting something in return for their resourcefullness (didnt spell that right!) :wink: :mrgreen:
Ok, the whole wholesale/retail thing is OT, but that's not what I was trying to say. When I had to have some electrical work done on my business building, I did purchase tax free the supplies I needed to do the job, with the aide of my sales and use license. I did go to a place that supplies electricians, I didn't go to Sam's.
BOT, lfs here never give store credit, not even for the stuff they sold you that they shouldn't have. :roll:
gracie=YGM
BOT, lfs here never give store credit, not even for the stuff they sold you that they shouldn't have. :roll:
gracie=YGM
I've sold frags of frogspawn and xenia. The xenia goes for about $15 store credit and gotten $20 for the frogspawn. Basically I have 2 LFS (well 3 but not gonna count one because the conditions are just plain nasty). One I've sold a few frags to over the last 2-3 years the other somewhere around 75-80. The one I've just sold a few to has a really high markup on everything, like 2-3x as much as mail order. The one I've sold tons to has almost the same prices as mail order and he's also a super nice guy and very honest. I also replace any frags that he happens to lose (well ones that I happen to see dying cause he won't tell me about them).
The way I see it is sure LFS come out twice on taking in frags for credit. When they sell them they get markup and when you spend credit they only lose their cost. But that $20 of food would still cost me $20 without the credit so I come out good also. As far as what they sell them for I could really care less. If he can get $100 (like that's gonna happen
) out of those frags I'm happy for him. The more he sells the more he buys...
Really tho if you're selling to a LFS that you can trust, ya might wanna think about replacing frags they lose. I mean truthfully you're not out anything in doing this and if you were buying off someone wouldn't like like some kind of guarantee?
The way I see it is sure LFS come out twice on taking in frags for credit. When they sell them they get markup and when you spend credit they only lose their cost. But that $20 of food would still cost me $20 without the credit so I come out good also. As far as what they sell them for I could really care less. If he can get $100 (like that's gonna happen
) out of those frags I'm happy for him. The more he sells the more he buys... Really tho if you're selling to a LFS that you can trust, ya might wanna think about replacing frags they lose. I mean truthfully you're not out anything in doing this and if you were buying off someone wouldn't like like some kind of guarantee?
In some ways this thread illustrates inherent problems that the industry would face in converting to predominantly aquacultured or fragged animals for their inventory.
Aquarium shops require variety and quantity of animals for their shops, and they must have them on demand in order to compete with what is available from the wild any day of the week. These animals must also be able to return a profit similar to what is realized now with wild stock.
An aquarium hobby that is dominated by captive-raised animals may have to come from true force rather than by choice.
Aquarium shops require variety and quantity of animals for their shops, and they must have them on demand in order to compete with what is available from the wild any day of the week. These animals must also be able to return a profit similar to what is realized now with wild stock.
An aquarium hobby that is dominated by captive-raised animals may have to come from true force rather than by choice.
Mitch, domestic and/or international legislation that prevents purchasing wild animals.
That is not meant to be taken prophetically. I'm saying that until aquaculturists can present retailers with a true substitute for wild-caught animals (with the criteria I mentioned above) they should not be expected to convert voluntarily.
That is not meant to be taken prophetically. I'm saying that until aquaculturists can present retailers with a true substitute for wild-caught animals (with the criteria I mentioned above) they should not be expected to convert voluntarily.
John,
You're starting to sound like you have left the MAC camp and joined forces with Wayne Ryan. :?
There may be perceived value issues involved here. Diehard reefers aside, the general public may not be able to look at that little 2" frag, and equate it to being worth $30-40. Americans tend to want instant gratification. There is really no evidence that shutting down the harvest of live marine animals for the aquarium trade will prolong the life of the reefs. While it might be good for aquaculture companies, it might cause a serious decline in the growth of the marine hobby. The whole industry might collapse. Only a fool would fail to realize that a ban on wild marinelife would have a very negative on the fishers who collect for a living. It seems to me that when we reach the point where the ocean can no longer sustain a reasonable harvest of marine animals, then we will probably have much more important things to concern ourselves with, than where will we get our frags.
I think aquaculture is a wonderful thing. We are certainly trying to do our part here at our store. You wouldn't believe the amount of time we devote to it above and beyond our normal overwork load. In spite of this I must admit to having mixed emotions. Although I support those who are trying to make a living at aquaculture, I hope their success doesn't come at the expense of the fisherfolk. I completely agree with the MAC that it would be best if large scale aquaculture took place in the countries of origin.
You're starting to sound like you have left the MAC camp and joined forces with Wayne Ryan. :?
There may be perceived value issues involved here. Diehard reefers aside, the general public may not be able to look at that little 2" frag, and equate it to being worth $30-40. Americans tend to want instant gratification. There is really no evidence that shutting down the harvest of live marine animals for the aquarium trade will prolong the life of the reefs. While it might be good for aquaculture companies, it might cause a serious decline in the growth of the marine hobby. The whole industry might collapse. Only a fool would fail to realize that a ban on wild marinelife would have a very negative on the fishers who collect for a living. It seems to me that when we reach the point where the ocean can no longer sustain a reasonable harvest of marine animals, then we will probably have much more important things to concern ourselves with, than where will we get our frags.
I think aquaculture is a wonderful thing. We are certainly trying to do our part here at our store. You wouldn't believe the amount of time we devote to it above and beyond our normal overwork load. In spite of this I must admit to having mixed emotions. Although I support those who are trying to make a living at aquaculture, I hope their success doesn't come at the expense of the fisherfolk. I completely agree with the MAC that it would be best if large scale aquaculture took place in the countries of origin.
JennM":x3jfl2qh said:Some interesting points brought up all around...
-Store credit obtained for frags to offset expenses that would be incurred *anyway* is a bonus to the hobbyist.
-Prices are extremely driven by supply and demand.
-Wholesale/resale 101
Jenn
- frags traded to LFS for store credit can be an easy source of income for the LFS, and the practice drives more traffic through the store.
:wink:
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