Introducing Tridacna species to Gulf waters, your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Lets not introduce any alien species of anything into any ecosystem..this goes beyond waters..this goes for everything...I dont think it will happen for one...and if it did im sure it would have to be under constant scrutany! Only way i can see the government allowing that to happen is if Tridacnas were caused to go extinct in that area due to mankind..(which i dont believe happened) Only now is the federal governments starting to reintroduce species extinct in certain areas back into those areas..ie the wolves for example...Id have to agree withevery one and say this isnt a good idea..More than likely the govt will not even think twice on this subject...(this is my opinion and is not fact!)

 

[reefNewbie]

this is like playing god, religion doesnt belong in general discussion! lol this should be in the SUMP!

haha just j/k

 

[tazdevil]

I know plenty of bad instances about introducing foreign species, here's four (albeit freshwater, however, same effects could be expected in a saltwater environment)

1: Sea Lamprey. They're still a problem in the great lakes, every once in a while you'll catch something with them attached.

2: Zebra mussel. They're a real problem, killing many native clams in the river systems.

3: I can't remember the actual name of it, but it's a asian carp species. Forget about boating in waters they inhabit.

4: Eurasian water milfoil. Chokes out lakes and rivers, causing massive fish die offs and effectively eliminates all native water plants.

There has not been a good way found to reduce or eliminate any one of these four problems, the current methods are aimed at "control" (in other words, not letting these species into any more lake/river systems). Otherwise, as in the case of the water milfoil, your only option at this point is to chemically nuke the lake, wait three years, start re-introducing a eco-system, and about 10 years from then, the lake will start living again.

 

[John_Brandt]

Lionfish (Pterois volitans) are native to the sub-tropical and tropical regions of the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and the Red Sea. Since August 2000, lionfish have now been found all along the southeastern coast of the United States from Florida to Cape Hatteras, North Carolina, in water depths from 85 to 260ft. They can be identified by their distinctive red or maroon and white stripes; fleshy tentacles above the eyes and mouth, fan-like pectoral fins, and long separated dorsal spines. You may be familiar with lionfish as an aquarium pet. Now, scuba divers and fishers are the most likely people to come in contact with lionfish in the Atlantic. If you see or collect a lionfish we are very interested in your observations. However, exercise extreme caution as lionfish have venomous dorsal, anal and pelvic spines that can be very painful.

Lionfish distribution as of summer 2003

All of the red and black dots on this map represent locations where lionfish have been reported since August 2000. Notice that there are very few observations north of Cape Hatteras. This is because lionfish are normally found in sub-tropical and tropical Pacific waters and their distribution in the Atlantic are limited by the colder temperate waters from the north. South of Cape Hatteras the coast is inflenced by the warm, clear waters of the Gulf Stream.

http://shrimp.ccfhrb.noaa.gov/lionfish/lionfish.html

Nonindigenous Aquatic Species

http://nas.er.usgs.gov

 

[hillbilly]

Introducing alien species of anykind, anywhere is always a bad idea. This has been proven hundreds of times all over the world.

 

[Len]

NYC lionfish 8O

 

[hillbilly]

NYC lionfish 8O

Yeah, with a Long Island accent!

 

[hdtran]

Lionfish (maybe not the volitans, but a relative) is also in the Mediterranean, and is good eating (obligatory fish for bouillabaisse).

There are some pacific tangs in Florida waters.

Didn't they drain some Maryland ponds to try to eradicate a Chinese lungfish? Maybe the eminent John Brandt remembers that episode?

Ditto most of the comments that the risks (say, rabbits in Australia) are not worth the possible benefits (anyone ever thought of introducing Koalas to California?)

 

[Anonymous]

It seems like everyone is against it and for good reasons..And wow..this is really hitting a nerve for John..Totally understandable though...No one has really argued in favor of and the benefits of doing that(if there are any?).

 

[John_Brandt]

Lionfish (maybe not the volitans, but a relative) is also in the Mediterranean, and is good eating (obligatory fish for bouillabaisse).

Just mind the bones!

Didn't they drain some Maryland ponds to try to eradicate a Chinese lungfish? Maybe the eminent John Brandt remembers that episode?

......................

Northern Snakehead

Channa argus
A top level predator which can quickly impact local fish populations through predation or displacement .

Snakeheads are now illegal to own in Maryland.

http://www.mdinvasivesp.org/index.html

 

[Anonymous]

Yes they did...I think they still have problems with them every now and again... It was a National deal a year or two or three ago...

 

[John_Brandt]

And wow..this is really hitting a nerve for John

Well, I am MASNA's Legislation Representative. That makes me aware of Federal and State legal initiatives that may affect the marine aquarium hobby and trade. I travel to Washington DC regularly to attend meetings and symposiums related to these and other issues.

The issue of alien, invasive and introduced speacies is a very very hot political topic right now. Agencies are poised to pass laws that will prevent citizens from introducing exotic species. Finding alien species that may have originated from the aquarium trade (ie East Coast Lionfish or something like Gulf Tridacnas) is all the evidence they may need to create bans on certain species.

Worst case hypothetical scenario timeline:

1) Tridacna clams are introduced to the Gulf of Mexico by hobbyists or the trade.
2) US Government discovers Tridacna clams in the Gulf of Mexico.
3) US Government passes a law making possession or importation of
Tridacna clams anywhere in the United States a Federal offense.

 

[Anonymous]

Like i said..i totally agree with you...I too am a part of MASNA..not quite where you are at but i am a member..Id hate to see Tridacnas taken away from the hobby..

 

[Anonymous]

CaptiveReef,

I just stumbled across a posting wherein you asked exactly the same question at ReefCentral.com on 3/29/04.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=346941

You knew exactly what the arguements were against the introduction of alien species, yet you persisted in perpetuating the question.

Generally, I view trolling as a non-harmful waste of time. In this case I view this attempt for attention as being very harmful in
that it could give people the morally repugnant idea of introducing alien species for financial profit.

 

[free_loader]

I just stumbled across a posting wherein you asked exactly the same question at ReefCentral.com on 3/29/04

he never said this was a new question .. his first statement was that he was looking for more information on this subject as he had already asked about it once and was given more flak than data .. i'm not a fan of trolls myself .. but i do not feel this was trolling .. i've never seen a troll start out a post by asking for a peacefull discussion ;-)

I was met with some gruff comments regarding this topic.
I know there have been alot of species that were released, and these species have caused havoc in their new habitat's.
Alot of opinions have been not to introduce Tridacna's due to the following:
1) The Gulf's waters are too murky
2) The Gulf's waters are too polluted
3) water is too cold
4) The Tridacna's would over populate the Gulf due to no natural predators
of the clam.
5)The Tridacna's would throw off the natural balance in the Gulf.

i'm not saying i agree with captivereef's idea... but i do not believe he posted his question just to make waves

 

[Anonymous]

I'm hoping one day new corals and rock will be introduced back into Jamacia waters to build back all the reefs that were destroyed by dynamite fishing.

That's a noble goal. Why not use native specimens?

I'm all for that.

Why are we still discussing this then?

 

[fishfanatic2]

I don't understand why anybody would even consider this, especially the gov't.

I think we all know the govt. to do some pretty stupid things.

Cane toads in florida...mongoose in hawaii...lots of others i dont know about...all wreaked havoc, and all were introduced by the government to control some pest.

 

[CaptiveReef]

CaptiveReef,

I just stumbled across a posting wherein you asked exactly the same question at ReefCentral.com on 3/29/04.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=346941

You knew exactly what the arguements were against the introduction of alien species, yet you persisted in perpetuating the question.

Generally, I view trolling as a non-harmful waste of time. In this case I view this attempt for attention as being very harmful in
that it could give people the morally repugnant idea of introducing alien species for financial profit.

Well SciGuy2, first of all I was looking for an adult discussion on the subject, and was met with some gruff comments by some individuals. I'm not trolling just looking to see what people had to say about the subject.
Hey If I want to I'll post it on as many boards for discussion purposes .This board has kept this discussion as a discussion,and not a gang up flame forum. And who are you to assume what arguments would come up by me posting on another forum.
I find the fact that you HAD TO POST to accuse me of trolling, you are trying to turn this discussion into another flame topic. If you read I stated not to do this, but keep it as a discussion.
Everybody in this hobby posts on different boards to get as much info as possible, these are DISCUSSION FORUMS, we seem to forget that.
In science topics are brought up and discussed and researched to see the VALIDITY of the subject.
It's the foundation of our technology, why do you think we have come so far in the past 100 years, by scientists sitting on their hands, no by research. I didn't want to get this deep, but I'm not going to be falsely accused of being irresponsible for my posting.
Nothing against you SciGuy2 but the reason why we have so many useful products and equipment for this hobby is because of research, looking into ideas, researching those ideas.
Don't let a few mistakes in the past stop the progress of research, in the future this topic may come up again, if God forbid the Tridacna's numbers do dwindle down to dangerous numbers, we may have to setup protected aquatic farms in Federal waters, but only if there is a need and the Government allows it and has appointed a program to do this.


CaptiveReef

 

[John_Brandt]

I don't understand why anybody would even consider this, especially the gov't.

I think we all know the govt. to do some pretty stupid things.

Cane toads in florida...mongoose in hawaii...lots of others i dont know about...all wreaked havoc, and all were introduced by the government to control some pest.

Are you able to cite references that governments intentionally released these species?

FWIW, a mongoose was sighted last week on the Hawaiian island of Kauai for the first time ever.

 

[John_Brandt]

You wouldn't get a bivalve parasite from captive propagated clams...

What makes you confident of that statement?