Ethics of keeping the blue ring octopus.

[Anonymous]

Calm down there happy pants. I just said that I thought that Galleon's tactics were unjust. You take everything so freaking personally. I also feel that most people would be able to find medical help if bitten.

A doctor in my hickville state, would have no frickin clue as to what the hell was wrong with me if I was bit by one of those.

A point I eluded to earlier. Your survival is dependent on the person caring for you knowing what is going on, and indeed, your ability to communicate it to them. Hope you can dail a phone and they get to you before paralysis sets in. 8O

 

[Tackett]

Unless you treat whatever is causing the paralysis you will be pumping away at them forever, or they will be on a vent forever.

that was a general statement, in this case it means; direct heart massage, otherwise a vent would be purposeless.

 

[Tackett]

What it comes down to is that the general population is not smart enough to have unrestricted access to these animals. I also include venemous snakes, crocodile monitors, etc. While there might be "many" aquarists able and willing to give it a good home and practice proper safety techniques, there are FAR MORE idiots out there that are likely to end up with the animal. Idiots have money too.
I've handled and kept crocodile monitors, I know what I'm doing. I've handled venemous snakes in the field for years, again, I know what I'm doing. I kept a blue ring in captivity until it died of natural causes. I've kept 7' black throat monitors that weigh more than most people's dog. This doesn't mean any schmuck should be doing the same. There are plenty of people on this board capable of keeping certain critters just as I have, in fact maybe most of you, I realize I'm not unique. The fact of the matter though is that the idiot factor out there is just too high to make these animals available to ANYONE with a Visa card.


Jim

Well said, and I agree to a point. I dont like laws that are in place to protect me and infringe on my rights to do whatever the hell I wish. As long as my exercise of rights does not infrige on someone elses there should not be any government regulation. Someone mentioned helmet laws and seatbelt laws. These laws are examples of laws that I hate because if I dont want to wear my seatbelt, and send MYSELF through MY windshield of the car that I bought with MY own money. It should be MY own buisness. Having my brain plastered on the side of a road some where does not infringe on anyone elses rights. I feel BRO's should be regulated, not for anyone elses sake but the octo's. I have the same feelings toward BRO's as I do with Nudibranchs, flame scalops, moorish idols, anemones, and every other difficult to near impossible critter to take care of. Mass importation of something that you know will probably be killed by over half of the 'tards buying them is unethical in my book. [/b]

 

[HClH2OFish]

Ive found that most people wont listen to you unless you tell them what they want to hear.

What was that? I wasn't listening....

:lol:

 

[Tackett]

LOL smartass. 8)

 

[reefann]

oh yeah, and FYI, CPR is a last ditch effort in an emergency situation. It aint what you see on TV, you'll almost always add a cracked ribcage to whatever caused them to get cpr. And cpr wont do crap for something that attacks your neurologic system. Unless you treat whatever is causing the paralysis you will be pumping away at them forever, or they will be on a vent forever.

I am CPR certified and know that cracked ribs usually follow. I dont see how this really related but ok glad to hear it.
And there you are totally wrong with your statement that unless you treat what is causing the paralysis you will be pumping away forever. There is no known treatment for a blue ring bite. The person just needs to be kept on life support until the toxin has worked it way though the body and muscular functions are restored.
I feel Mr. Jim M put it best by saying that many people are responsible and trained to handle these and many other deadly creatures BUT they should not be available to anyone with some CASH. I never said offer them for sale to the public did I? I just thought that some other means of getting rid of these creatures may have been able to be worked out. BUT I commend the fact that they were frozen and kept for educational purposes!

 

[reefann]

Oops Mr. mohr pretty much said the top half of my post. I need to start finishing the threads before posting.

 

[Anonymous]

 

[Anonymous]

What it comes down to is that the general population is not smart enough to have unrestricted access to these animals. I also include venemous snakes, crocodile monitors, etc. While there might be "many" aquarists able and willing to give it a good home and practice proper safety techniques, there are FAR MORE idiots out there that are likely to end up with the animal. Idiots have money too.
I've handled and kept crocodile monitors, I know what I'm doing. I've handled venemous snakes in the field for years, again, I know what I'm doing. I kept a blue ring in captivity until it died of natural causes. I've kept 7' black throat monitors that weigh more than most people's dog. This doesn't mean any schmuck should be doing the same. There are plenty of people on this board capable of keeping certain critters just as I have, in fact maybe most of you, I realize I'm not unique. The fact of the matter though is that the idiot factor out there is just too high to make these animals available to ANYONE with a Visa card.


Jim

I remember we had a guy walk into U of Fla's vet school with a box, said his snake was sick. Stupid Bastard almost killed the receptionist, she opened the box to find a vary agitated rhinoceros viper, the guy didn't warn her because "it's a gentle guy, wouldn't hurt a fly". the police and animal control raided his residence he had something like 30 of them. The level of human stupidity sometimes seems infinite.

 

[Mihai]

What it comes down to is that the general population is not smart enough to have unrestricted access to these animals. I also include venemous snakes, crocodile monitors, etc. While there might be "many" aquarists able and willing to give it a good home and practice proper safety techniques, there are FAR MORE idiots out there that are likely to end up with the animal. Idiots have money too.
I've handled and kept crocodile monitors, I know what I'm doing. I've handled venemous snakes in the field for years, again, I know what I'm doing. I kept a blue ring in captivity until it died of natural causes. I've kept 7' black throat monitors that weigh more than most people's dog. This doesn't mean any schmuck should be doing the same. There are plenty of people on this board capable of keeping certain critters just as I have, in fact maybe most of you, I realize I'm not unique. The fact of the matter though is that the idiot factor out there is just too high to make these animals available to ANYONE with a Visa card.


Jim

Well said, and I agree to a point. I dont like laws that are in place to protect me and infringe on my rights to do whatever the hell I wish. As long as my exercise of rights does not infrige on someone elses there should not be any government regulation. Someone mentioned helmet laws and seatbelt laws. These laws are examples of laws that I hate because if I dont want to wear my seatbelt, and send MYSELF through MY windshield of the car that I bought with MY own money. It should be MY own buisness. Having my brain plastered on the side of a road some where does not infringe on anyone elses rights. I feel BRO's should be regulated, not for anyone elses sake but the octo's. I have the same feelings toward BRO's as I do with Nudibranchs, flame scalops, moorish idols, anemones, and every other difficult to near impossible critter to take care of. Mass importation of something that you know will probably be killed by over half of the 'tards buying them is unethical in my book. [/b]

Well put Tackett. Taken into extreme, Jim's view would mean to ban paragliding, diving, bungee jumping, climbing and lots more fun and interesting stuff, which, incidentaly is dangerous if not made properly.
He's probably also of the dominant southern oppinion that we should legislate morality... I disagree.

M.

 

[Anonymous]

I disagree. I think anyone dumb enough to buy one without training or knowing what they are doing shouldn't be allowed to reproduce anyway so it's no great loss if the Octopus bites them, their kids, or any friends dumb enough to hang out whith them.

 

[Anonymous]

A wholesaler that we have close ties to received an incorrect shipment. In the shipment was 15 Hapalochlaena maculosa. The wholesaler has a policy against selling these and other "dangerous" animals to customers, so they shipped them to us. We have a policy against deadly animals as well. Ultimately, they were killed to be preserved and used as educational pieces. While unpacking the bags and observing behaviors, stimuli responses, taking pictures, etc., we had some interesting discussion on the ethics of the general public having access to such animals to keep as pets. I was just curious about other thoughts on the matter. Post away.

People have the right to be stupid, and they express it in many ways every day in the US. I also have no problem with people who don't want them and want to act the way the wholesaler and Galleons institution acted.

That said, I also think that the BRO has the potential to be dealdly, but in reality we are talking about shark attack syndrome. From what I can find out by talking to people who do research on the BRO, there really aren't that many documented cases of death from the BRO in the wild, and none from captive animals.

RR

Can you tell I am waiting to get on a plane?

 

[Anonymous]

Are you heading to the South Pacific, Righty?

 

[Anonymous]

Are you heading to the South Pacific, Righty?

Nope - heading back from the Carribean.

 

[Anonymous]

Well put Tackett. Taken into extreme, Jim's view would mean to ban paragliding, diving, bungee jumping, climbing and lots more fun and interesting stuff, which, incidentaly is dangerous if not made properly.
He's probably also of the dominant southern oppinion that we should legislate morality... I disagree.

Wrong - try again.

 

[Mihai]

OK, I take back the morality part (which was just extrapolated), but I maintain the extreme part...

Jim, since you did it, it means you admit that there is some fun and it's an interesting animal to keep. However, since you cannot give sale tests (to single out the idiots) you can either let them all have it, or none of them... it seems you opt for none of them...

M.

 

[Anonymous]

As with very large minitor lizards, large snakes, venemous snakes and a variety of other critters including some marine varieties, I think they should be available to those who have demonstrated a certain level of proficiency at animal husbandry in the area to the organism in question.

 

[Anonymous]

can't get there...

reefing licenses sound goofy.

 

[Anonymous]

He's probably also of the dominant southern oppinion that we should legislate morality

No, down here we think stereotyping and poor spelling should be legislated.

 

[Mihai]

I think I already apologized about stereotyping... my bad. Perhaps the discussion about the morality belongs in the sump rather than here. Regarding the spelling - well... I'm just tired of spell-checking. It seems that you got the message though . I'm sure that your French grammar is just as shabby ;-)

M.