to fatal morgana from newbies thread

[Anonymous]

Has anybody else just sat and stared at Marrowbone's avatar for several minutes at a time?

I was just doing that before you posted!!!!

I have a pair of 32 gallon surges that use that exactomundo design 8)

Are they loud? To use that design, they have to be mounted above the display, correct?

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed. That is why my plant life full tank's inhabitents have lived for years and years.

First you say a year, then you say a couple months, now you say years and years. Which is it?

both :roll:

Both = 2. I gave 3 options. You can't have both. :sigh:

ok so all three :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

... what I really really silly is to think newbies have to must be exposed to more and more mechanical filtration and more and more techniques with new skills to learn at each turn. ...

I'd say that there are a few things a person must learn in order for them to keep a successful reef tank.

What could be more simple than removing all possible contaminants from your water before dumping it into your tank? Start clean.

P.S. I use macros, and though I don't skim, I don't have many SPS yet.

My point is it is much simplier and more effective short and long term to do it in tank.

 

[Anonymous]

Are they loud? To use that design, they have to be mounted above the display, correct?

Yes, the higher above the water level the less reliable but stronger the surge. Between 1" and about 6" mine have been 100% reliable but I had to really tweak the pipe lengths.

The noise isn't all that great. You'll see that in the picture one of the rubbermaids has a lid. With the lid on it really muffles the "flush" sound. The lid is off the other so I could get a pic of the inside.

 

[Anonymous]

Obviously this isn't something for the typical display and definatly not something you want visible on a show tank.

Pictured is the 1.5" version. I recently upgraded to 2" plumbing and it can really dump a lot of water quickly now!

 

[Anonymous]

The truth is that dispite what Guy says, environmental engineers harvest macro algaes from the ocean to check to see if copper polution is present in the ocean. So obviously, macro algaes to absorb copper even if everythign else does.

I never ever said that Macro Algae doesn't sequester Copper. You started that it would take 3 weeks for Macro Algae to remove copper. If that's true then that's far too long. Especially if you add more every day by topping off with tap water loaded with the stuff.

You say it's fine to add tap water to a reef tank as long as there is macro algae present, even if it's loaded with copper.

That is not what I said. but even with that dramatic misrepresentation, the only questions is how much plant life is needed.

any water fit for human consumption will work in any aquarium.

That is the statement I am disputing.

yes we do disagree.

 

[Marrowbone]

Hehe thanks guys, I'll take that as a compliment. I love my surge tanks, and the sound. I've tweaked the syphon breaks so that the sound is actually pretty nice. 4 small air holes and not exposing the bottom of the intake means no gurgling, just a hissing/crashing sound when it breaks. 8) ... Nice surges Guy!

 

[Anonymous]

Has anybody else just sat and stared at Marrowbone's avatar for several minutes at a time?

Or is it just me...

8O

It's a cool avatar. 8)

 

[Ben1]

I'm going to close this thread tonight at midnight EST

Amen to that, I feel bad for anyone who trys to read this thing the whole way through.

My point is that tap water filtered by plant life is suitable for any aquarium.

But you are not filtering it with the plant life before it goes into the tank. You are adding nutrient to the system then creating something to take it out. Why bother? If you have a large tank or any tank with high evap rates (I use 3-4 gal a day) tap water in my area would add the nutrient faster then the plant life could absorb it, unless I of course had a whole algae covered tank...yuk!


Your statement "ANY TANK" is very very bad. Have you run a fully stocked SPS only system? Have you run every possible system to know for a fact that ANY TANK would be fine with these additions of nutrient from anyones tap? Would a fully stocked SPS system do well with macros growing all over them trying to keep up with the nutrient added by the tap water?

 

[Ben1]

BTW, marrowbone do you ever do frag trading? I am near the phithadelphia area myself.

 

[Anonymous]

what I really really silly is to think newbies have to must be exposed to more and more mechanical filtration and more and more techniques with new skills to learn at each turn.

You don't think there is more to learn? Weird.

As you stated doin't use tap and use less plant life. After all phosphates come from things other than the input water. And plant life does consume the phosphates.

This shows a shocking misunderstanding of phosphate and its uptake in cyano and 'plants'.

So all I do is just use the plant life.

No you don't. You have a sand bed and lots of rock.
[quiote] What to me is really really silly is to tell the newbie they have to use filtered water and have the plant life. [/quote]

Not silly at all. What is silly is to tell them that it is ok to add water containing copper to the tank and let the 'plants' deal with it.

and the worse possible thing is to tell the newbie to just use filtered water and they will never have phosphates, nitrates, toxins or any other problems.

Its a good thing no one tells them that.
Amazing that you keep arguing against points no one holds.

 

[Anonymous]

My point is it is much simplier and more effective short and long term to do it in tank.

Actually its neither. Setting up 'your' system is just as cumbersome as any other, and you have not kept a reef long term. You really should stop playing the long term card since you simply have not kept a reef long term.

 

[Anonymous]

That is not what I said. but even with that dramatic misrepresentation, the only questions is how much plant life is needed.

1 - You say it's fine to add tap water to a reef tank as long as there is macro algae present, even if it's loaded with copper.

2 -

any water fit for human consumption will work in any aquarium.

You say I misquoted you.

We have 1. my dramatic misinterpretation of what you said.

and 2. your actual quote.

I am not catching the difference. Perhaps if you could explain how I misquoted you we could all understand how "any" tap water is fine for "any" tank.

 

[Anonymous]

My point is it is much simplier and more effective short and long term to do it in tank.

You have replaced your Anemone 4 or more times and your fish a dozen or more times and your corals a half a dozen times.

Please expalin how this is more effective long term than maintaining the tank with quality water using a $150 RO filter instead of tap water. You must have spent at least twice that on the animals that have died in your care.

 

[Anonymous]

My point is it is much simplier and more effective short and long term to do it in tank.

You have replaced your Anemone 4 or more times and your fish a dozen or more times and your corals a half a dozen times.

Please expalin how this is more effective long term than maintaining the tank with quality water using a $150 RO filter instead of tap water. You must have spent at least twice that on the animals that have died in your care.

Wow.
Bob, is these more of those things you just forgot to mention but now that that you are reminded your remember?

 

[Ben1]

Just one more helpful thing I wanted to post for you to read, Bob. I was just reading through it myself for more coral feeding info and thought it was a good summary of what really is happening on a reef.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.htm

I liked this point

Filamentous, slime, smear, and macroalgae are highly efficient at absorbing such material, and they grow rapidly. In most circumstances, the microalgae and macroalgae, while very useful as part of turf scrubbers or small algal communities within a reef, often become problematic as they overtake the more aesthetically and, in some ways, functionally desirable crustose red algae (coralline), corals, and other sessile invertebrates. It should be noted, though, that these organisms might also be capable of significant nutrient uptake. Bacteria and phytoplankton are also extremely proficient at removing this material. All these organisms are quite valuable to our captive reef communities. They not only "purify" water by the utilization of nutrients, but also are all part of a beneficial food web, both in coral reefs and in aquariums.

 

[Anonymous]

My point is it is much simplier and more effective short and long term to do it in tank.

You have replaced your Anemone 4 or more times and your fish a dozen or more times and your corals a half a dozen times.

Please expalin how this is more effective long term than maintaining the tank with quality water using a $150 RO filter instead of tap water. You must have spent at least twice that on the animals that have died in your care.

Guy, this is breaking my heart. I've had customers like this, and it wasn't only a few occasions when I'd tell them, "I am not selling you another thing."

 

[Len]

As mentioned earlier today, I've decided to close this thread at the end of the day. If you wish to continue discussion on particular topics, I invite you to start new threads on specific subjects.