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The point is that the outlet is so huge a powerhead would never be able to keep up with it.

Why do it? It has the potential to create a larger water movement than all the other surge devices (at least in gallons/sec moved), as well as much less noise* and bubbles. (*Assuming I can do it with the venturi of a pump.) You can bet I will be calling it the Wandell surge device if this sucker works :D

Bry, your idea is good in theory, but it could really only be implemented on a very large tank. It's basically a large piston. Imagine if the container was solid, and inside of a stationary sleeve, and you basically have a wave2k type device. The difficulty is in getting moving parts to stay moving in a saltwater tank, and getting it to work flawlessly. Way too complex.

Roberto,
Can you explain exactly how a pressure relief valve works?
 
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RobertoVespucci":2pmp9uat said:
Podman:

But, if the pump is pushing the water in faster than it runs out, once the surge chamber is full, the pump is just pushing water out the chamber's opening.

Example, When full the surge drains at 5,000 gallons per hour. To run the surge 4 times per hour, the pump fills it at 20,000 gallons per hour. So, once it fills up at 20,000 gallons per hour, the head pressure will reduce the flow to something much closer to 5,000 gallons per hour and burn out the pump.

well, i did post again back there.. but in my own defense of such a bonehead idea, i think it could work at the expense of a new powerhead quite often.

all that would be required would be the slightest bit of head pressure to vacate the air from the chamber. the water would probably have to be added from the top to prevent the change in head pressure on the pump enabling a correct throttling on the chambers discharge.
water would be exiting this outlet at all times until the water level sank to a point where there was nothing left to pump up from the sump... the problem this is that the pump would be running dry until the water came back down for it to be pumped back up again.
 
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The prototype run...

This is a big stein I drilled a hole in :( :(

I just placed the vacuum to the bottom of the glass, no seal involved. It sucked up the entire glass in about 3 seconds.

I'm going to buy some 4" acrylic tubing and PVC fittings and build a larger prototype next week. Hopefully going on my 40 gallon if all goes well.

(Note my helper. I needed a miracle.)
 

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Probably something like 33 ft of water I believe. It's about 1 atm.
 
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Pod,
I guess I'm a bit confused what you're envisioning. What kind of outlet do you mean? The way I'm picturing it the bottom is completely open. A powerhead pumping in would just empty out the bottom.
 
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Matt_Wandell":2ivqtiur said:
Pod,
I guess I'm a bit confused what you're envisioning. What kind of outlet do you mean? The way I'm picturing it the bottom is completely open. A powerhead pumping in would just empty out the bottom.

it won;t do what you are envisioning... it was a dumb idea.
 

RobertoVespucci

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knucklehead":238hkdp4 said:
http://shorinternational.com/VacuumInvestMach.htm


Hey Matt, check out the second device on this page


anyone know how much weight 30 inches of mercury vacuum will lift?


Bell Jar, vacuum pump, and a vibrator? Wrong kind of surge device, my friend.



Pressure relief valves are like check valves that don't open until a preset pressure differential is achieved.
 
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Regarding water getting into the vacuum, wouldn't a check valve on airline prevent this?
 
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Matt_Wandell":1h7g1d7o said:
Regarding water getting into the vacuum, wouldn't a check valve on airline prevent this?

how would that work.. a check is just a directional device.
 

RobertoVespucci

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Matt_Wandell":75n28mvg said:
Regarding water getting into the vacuum, wouldn't a check valve on airline prevent this?

Check valves turn a two-way line into a one-way line. It won't stop the water from following the air.
 
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i take that back... i am betting a thousand today... i think i will go lay down.
 
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RobertoVespucci":3efv0r6y said:
knucklehead":3efv0r6y said:
http://shorinternational.com/VacuumInvestMach.htm


Hey Matt, check out the second device on this page


anyone know how much weight 30 inches of mercury vacuum will lift?


Bell Jar, vacuum pump, and a vibrator? Wrong kind of surge device, my friend.


:lol:


That vacuum pump looks like a nice one, 2000 dollars though


hey Matt, is it possible to use a clear piece of acrylic pipe so we can see the action inside the pipe while its working?
 
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RobertoVespucci":1qcjlf55 said:
knucklehead":1qcjlf55 said:
http://shorinternational.com/VacuumInvestMach.htm


Hey Matt, check out the second device on this page


anyone know how much weight 30 inches of mercury vacuum will lift?


Bell Jar, vacuum pump, and a vibrator? Wrong kind of surge device, my friend.



Pressure relief valves are like check valves that don't open until a preset pressure differential is achieved.

:lol:

Are they adjustable? I mean that would have to be a pretty sensitive pressure differential for it to "fire" right?
 
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knucklehead":1ioqvoko said:
RobertoVespucci":1ioqvoko said:
knucklehead":1ioqvoko said:
http://shorinternational.com/VacuumInvestMach.htm


Hey Matt, check out the second device on this page


anyone know how much weight 30 inches of mercury vacuum will lift?


Bell Jar, vacuum pump, and a vibrator? Wrong kind of surge device, my friend.


:lol:


That vacuum pump looks like a nice one, 2000 dollars though


hey Matt, is it possible to use a clear piece of acrylic pipe so we can see the action inside the pipe while its working?

That's exactly what I'm planning.
 

RobertoVespucci

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You usually buy them for a specific pressure. I'm sure there is an adjustable out there somewhere. It's probably as available as the frackin' barb fitting I spent all day looking for unsuccessfully.


That is a sweet pump, though. But following it with a 1 horse compressor doesn't sound quiet.
 
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Well if i did use a vacuum, I could just put something like this in the line between the surge device and the vacuum.

wastecollector-large.jpg

Vacuum attachs on the left, surge device attachs on the right. Any water sucked up falls to the bottom of the container and stays there.
 
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And if it does suck up too much the vacuum will shut off anyway.
 

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