- Status
Told you.
It's all NOAA's fault.
The Sanctuary falls under the Department of Commerce. Giving someone a permit to take a bunch of protected corals to a tropical fish warehouse sounds like commerce to me.
He was innocent. They should have checked out his stories and this would have never happened.
Doesn't matter that he should not have told the stories in the first place, just to get his hands on those corals.
What happened to the part of his permit application where it says that those protected corals would also be grown for re-introduction into the Sanctuary? Growing corals for re-introduction is common in a tropical fish warehouse too.
Unless you are trying to say that the warehouse was empty, there were no Pacific corals in that coral farm, turned facility, turned pet warehouse.
Envisioned as a coral propogation facility? Where would the corals come from? Was it empty when the protected corals from the Sanctuary were put there? Was it already in operation, with Pacific corals?
It's all NOAA's fault.
The Sanctuary falls under the Department of Commerce. Giving someone a permit to take a bunch of protected corals to a tropical fish warehouse sounds like commerce to me.
He was innocent. They should have checked out his stories and this would have never happened.
Doesn't matter that he should not have told the stories in the first place, just to get his hands on those corals.
What happened to the part of his permit application where it says that those protected corals would also be grown for re-introduction into the Sanctuary? Growing corals for re-introduction is common in a tropical fish warehouse too.
Unless you are trying to say that the warehouse was empty, there were no Pacific corals in that coral farm, turned facility, turned pet warehouse.
Envisioned as a coral propogation facility? Where would the corals come from? Was it empty when the protected corals from the Sanctuary were put there? Was it already in operation, with Pacific corals?
So to please Steven, the story is altered
Hi I'm Eric and I would like a permit to collect corals for disease research, bleaching, and establish corals for reintroduction to the Sanctuary,and I would like to take them to a coral propagation facility in Houston. This facility is already in operation with Pacific corals.
That would be assuming that the people in charge of the Sanctuary are really stupid.
Hi I'm Eric and I would like a permit to collect corals for disease research, bleaching, and establish corals for reintroduction to the Sanctuary,and I would like to take them to a coral propagation facility in Houston. This facility is already in operation with Pacific corals.
That would be assuming that the people in charge of the Sanctuary are really stupid.
bleedingthought":ylovkaon said:
Of course... however, I have no reason to think they were. I have the paper copies and they doesn't appear to have been "tampered with." Furthermore, had anything been edited out by the FOIA office, they are *required* to tell me where and why they have edited out information on the documents. Thus far, they have told me that these documents are "whole," meaning that the FOIA office has not edited out anything on them.
That said, Steven seems to be questioning the integrity of FKNMS and NOAA. While I admire his tenacity, I'm still willing to give the FOIA offices the benefit of the doubt with regards to giving me these documents.
StevenPro":3dnsfclg said:
Ok, let's assume something was actually there... how do you know Eric didn't edit it out before he submitted the application? Or, how do you know that the people reviewing the application (and making those comments on the side) didn't edit it out as a condition of approval?
and a big gap from the time that Reefsavers stopped caring for the corals, December/January, and Craig Watson found it out in March and informed the Sanctuary.
From Billy's communication to Eric
Let me explain that we would still not know about these problems if Craig Watson had not contacted me.
But that didn't stop Eric from going on trips.
From Billy's communication to Eric
You knowingly traveled to Puerto Rico recently having admitted to me in an email that the corals retained under your permit were in jeopardy.
From Billy's communication to Eric
Let me explain that we would still not know about these problems if Craig Watson had not contacted me.
But that didn't stop Eric from going on trips.
From Billy's communication to Eric
You knowingly traveled to Puerto Rico recently having admitted to me in an email that the corals retained under your permit were in jeopardy.
steven, i just gotta say, your good. i like how everytime you get backed into a corner, you point behind them and say... " what about that?" instead of answering the questions already asked.
what ever sihaya's intentions are with eric isnt really our buisness, that may be personal, or it may be that she wants the world to know, either way, its of no consequence, so stop even talking about it, the story is there, and all the info is there.
you keep asking what his side of the story is, well. its all there too, and it doenst look real good at all.
what ever sihaya's intentions are with eric isnt really our buisness, that may be personal, or it may be that she wants the world to know, either way, its of no consequence, so stop even talking about it, the story is there, and all the info is there.
you keep asking what his side of the story is, well. its all there too, and it doenst look real good at all.
Eric was honored with the award of a Federal permit to maintain Federally protected corals. Corals that do not belong to Eric, protected corals that belong to the public. Not to Eric.
If every thing was honest.
When Eric was kicked out of ReefSavers, why didn't he pick up the phone and call his permitting agency to report it?
When Eric found out much later that, for whatever reason, ReefSavers decided to no longer maintain his sytem with those corals in it. If every thing was honest, why didn't he call his permitting agency and report it?
There was plenty that the Federal Government could have done to get those corals out of ReefSavers and they would have done it.
Even if he didn't care about the corals, he would care about his permit. The permit is in his name and he is the only one responsible for maintaining the conditions of that permit.
It is a Federal permit and he was honored to receive it.
Why did he continue to act like nothing was going on? Why did he not tell anyone? Why did he not report it?
Why did Eric not want to let anyone know about ReefSavers and what was going on there?
Why did Billy Causey, the person that awarded Eric the permit, have to find out from Craig Watson?
From Billy's communication to Eric
Let me explain that we would still not know about these problems if Craig Watson had not contacted me.
If every thing was honest.
When Eric was kicked out of ReefSavers, why didn't he pick up the phone and call his permitting agency to report it?
When Eric found out much later that, for whatever reason, ReefSavers decided to no longer maintain his sytem with those corals in it. If every thing was honest, why didn't he call his permitting agency and report it?
There was plenty that the Federal Government could have done to get those corals out of ReefSavers and they would have done it.
Even if he didn't care about the corals, he would care about his permit. The permit is in his name and he is the only one responsible for maintaining the conditions of that permit.
It is a Federal permit and he was honored to receive it.
Why did he continue to act like nothing was going on? Why did he not tell anyone? Why did he not report it?
Why did Eric not want to let anyone know about ReefSavers and what was going on there?
Why did Billy Causey, the person that awarded Eric the permit, have to find out from Craig Watson?
From Billy's communication to Eric
Let me explain that we would still not know about these problems if Craig Watson had not contacted me.
I take it personal.
If someone else did this, people would be calling for their head.
Eric is more a hobby person and a hobby representative than anything.
If this had been someone with a pet shop, a hobbyist, someone with a tropical fish warehouse, people would be saying that these sort of things will be what will regulate the hobby out of business, how it gives the hobby a black eye, how this is exactly what people that are against the hobby would be looking for.
If someone else did this, people would be calling for their head.
Eric is more a hobby person and a hobby representative than anything.
If this had been someone with a pet shop, a hobbyist, someone with a tropical fish warehouse, people would be saying that these sort of things will be what will regulate the hobby out of business, how it gives the hobby a black eye, how this is exactly what people that are against the hobby would be looking for.
Okay, enough is enough.
All but one of you are totaly clueless and are debating a mere fragment of the event. The fragments you are debating when put together, create a totaly different story which is being used to make assumptions and accusations.
The moment anyone knew that the material provided is fragmented and incomplete, that alone should have told you that any debate would be pointless. All that can be done with the information provided is to assume and accuse. As it is now, this is not a debate, but merely a gossip fest. Shamefull.
All I can do now, besides becoming disgusted with a few of you, is to sit back and hope that the day will come when the entire event and the motivations behind this being put out in this way are known. When and IF that day comes, a few of you will be embarrassed, while another will have their true nature shown.
Chuck
All but one of you are totaly clueless and are debating a mere fragment of the event. The fragments you are debating when put together, create a totaly different story which is being used to make assumptions and accusations.
The moment anyone knew that the material provided is fragmented and incomplete, that alone should have told you that any debate would be pointless. All that can be done with the information provided is to assume and accuse. As it is now, this is not a debate, but merely a gossip fest. Shamefull.
All I can do now, besides becoming disgusted with a few of you, is to sit back and hope that the day will come when the entire event and the motivations behind this being put out in this way are known. When and IF that day comes, a few of you will be embarrassed, while another will have their true nature shown.
Chuck
Chuck - while I completely understand and admire your loyalty, you seem to be suggesting that, unless we ALL assume on blind faith that there's no way Mr. Borneman could have done anything wrong, then we're all worthy of your disgust.
What are you basing this on? Why do you think us so reprehensible for even just entertaining the possibility that he made mistakes?
My FOIA request was not for "anything that makes Mr. Borneman look bad," it was for "all information on the Houston model corals project." The documents I got are what they are. If you can find any documented and verifiable information to counter them in favor of your friend, give them to me and I'll post them.
What are you basing this on? Why do you think us so reprehensible for even just entertaining the possibility that he made mistakes?
My FOIA request was not for "anything that makes Mr. Borneman look bad," it was for "all information on the Houston model corals project." The documents I got are what they are. If you can find any documented and verifiable information to counter them in favor of your friend, give them to me and I'll post them.
Again... "All but one of you are totaly clueless and are debating a mere fragment of the event. The fragments you are debating when put together, create a totaly different story which is being used to make assumptions and accusations. "
You may have requested ALL information, but you have recieved only a mere fragment, (and you know it!) A great many documents were not provided to you as well as other documents from sources you are not even aware of. Include the emails and phone conversations, and you are creating nothing but gossip.
"What are you basing this on? Why do you think us so reprehensible for even just entertaining the possibility that he made mistakes?"
On a great more than the little bits and pieces you have, of which I am not ever, NOT EVER, going to share or give up as it was revealed to me in trust. So don't even ask. Why do I think it so reprehensible? That is quite obvious on two fronts. One being the most obvious as to what I quoted above. You have but fragments and can not claim a "debate", you are taking everything out of context while making a great many assumptions leading to unfounded accusations. Nothing you have posted allows any type of discussion possible, even what you think is obvious questions to raise are raised from fragments. Impossible to debate and leads to mere gossip. Again.... shamefull! I find nothing "entertaining" about having a friend smeared for the sake of your own dillusional ego.
On a lessor known front, think back to your previous actions against Eric and others as well. That alone speaks volumes of where you are truly coming from. Now if anyone wants to really get into some gossip, then take it from there.
At this time, please remove any and all photos that I have given to you in the past from your coral sheets. I tried my best to remain impartial between what I thought were friends, but this was all before finding out a bit of your own history, which to be honest, was just plain scary. Put that up on a site and we might have a real discussion.
Chuck
You may have requested ALL information, but you have recieved only a mere fragment, (and you know it!) A great many documents were not provided to you as well as other documents from sources you are not even aware of. Include the emails and phone conversations, and you are creating nothing but gossip.
"What are you basing this on? Why do you think us so reprehensible for even just entertaining the possibility that he made mistakes?"
On a great more than the little bits and pieces you have, of which I am not ever, NOT EVER, going to share or give up as it was revealed to me in trust. So don't even ask. Why do I think it so reprehensible? That is quite obvious on two fronts. One being the most obvious as to what I quoted above. You have but fragments and can not claim a "debate", you are taking everything out of context while making a great many assumptions leading to unfounded accusations. Nothing you have posted allows any type of discussion possible, even what you think is obvious questions to raise are raised from fragments. Impossible to debate and leads to mere gossip. Again.... shamefull! I find nothing "entertaining" about having a friend smeared for the sake of your own dillusional ego.
On a lessor known front, think back to your previous actions against Eric and others as well. That alone speaks volumes of where you are truly coming from. Now if anyone wants to really get into some gossip, then take it from there.
At this time, please remove any and all photos that I have given to you in the past from your coral sheets. I tried my best to remain impartial between what I thought were friends, but this was all before finding out a bit of your own history, which to be honest, was just plain scary. Put that up on a site and we might have a real discussion.
Chuck
Chuck - don't you see that you're doing the SAME thing to me that you think I'm doing to Eric?
Obviously, he told you things from his "side of the story" as to my personal character, past actions, or whatever else it is he thought he could tell you that would build his case. And yet, you are not "practicing what you preach." You have not asked me via personal email or PM my account of what he may be alleging.
Regarding my history... I'm well aware of the rumors that Mr. Borneman and some of his friends seem to be spreading about my past and my character in a desperate attempt to distract from the information I've posted. However, I find it well beneath me to publicly discuss them. For one thing, they have NO relevance to this issue or any issue of the hobby.
Obviously, he told you things from his "side of the story" as to my personal character, past actions, or whatever else it is he thought he could tell you that would build his case. And yet, you are not "practicing what you preach." You have not asked me via personal email or PM my account of what he may be alleging.
Regarding my history... I'm well aware of the rumors that Mr. Borneman and some of his friends seem to be spreading about my past and my character in a desperate attempt to distract from the information I've posted. However, I find it well beneath me to publicly discuss them. For one thing, they have NO relevance to this issue or any issue of the hobby.
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