Eric Borneman coral controversy

[Anonymous]

Eric did not own those corals, those were Federally protected corals. Natural resources that are the property of the US public.

Eric did not secure a location to do his long term study. These coral lines will take several years to establish in terms of broodstock, fragmentation and grow-out times.

Obviously he did not secure a location, he was kicked out shortly after he got setup at ReefSavers. He did not own that location, it was not associated with any University, he obviously did not even have a lease.

How long was he going to wait to report getting kicked out and the corals neglected?

He was kicked out of ReefSavers, later discoverd that ReefSavers was no longer maintaining his corals, then he didn't tell anyone. Craig Watson found out and reported it.

 

[sihaya]

Today's episode of "As the Water Flows" is brought to you by Elements GAC

Will Charles out Sihaya?

Will Sihaya find the missing link?

What will Steven have to say?

Will Eric pull his head out of the sand?

All this and more after this short message from http://www.navy.com/[/url]

ROFL! Oh my god, you nearly made me bust out laughing in the middle of class!! Thank you... I think we are all well over-due for a comic relief.

 

[Anonymous]

I suppose hypocrisy is a sliding scale.

Buy MAC corals Save the Reef
Buy Walt corals Save the Reef
Grow frags at home Save the Reef
Buy all aquacultured corals Save the Reef

But when it comes to someone, in the hobby

It's not save the reef, it's Save the Name

The wheels are in motion, this is not going away. It's not going to be up to the court of public opinion anyway.

 

[StevenPro]

This is very old "news", but yes, at the time, there were some misunderstandings and issues between some parties involved, none of which were Erics fault and he did NOTHING wrong, in fact, if not for Eric, the situation could have gotten worse. Since that time, any misunderstandings have been cleared up, issues resolved and wounds were healed. To drag it out into an online gossip fest would only serve to do one thing. And that is to open old wounds and damage good working realtionships that are in place now. To do so, would serve what purpose here online? I can think of only one reason, and its not nice.

Chuck

Very well said Chuck!

 

[sihaya]

And what makes you think he or anyone owes you anything at all?

Huh? I don't think anyone owes me anything. All I'm saying is that, however you might criticize my posting of these documents, it's still that much more than anything anyone else has offered.

Who are you that they must answer to? You seriously believe that you can call out someone and they should have to answer to you or anyone online.

It's not *me* that anyone has to answer to. See my response to Cracker's posts.

Talk about a power trip. And if they were to be so foolish as to give you the time of day, you would only allow what ever was said or provided, to be fodder for even more conspiracy garbage. You need to deal with your past issues as well as getting yourself off of this power trip. Shall we continue?

No. These rumors you've apparently been told are just that, rumors. And I'm not going to insult this thread or these people by discussing them with you publicly.

 

[Anonymous]

Do not take this the wrong way, but it is the only way I know how to say it. Its none of anyones business. Not here online at least.

Quite frankly, all your wishing to the contrary aside, that's just not the case. Whatever merits - or lack of - this accusation may have, it's public, it's already out there, and it's not going to go away.

If this stalls here without any further information coming to light, people will remember it. It will not be forgotten. It will be talked about. It will be discussed. Many people have already expressed that they won't be shy in asking Eric about it, in public venues before others who may not yet be familar with the situation, thus spreading it further.

Quite a lot of us in the hobby have long memories.

Telling people who believe they see a problem that there is no problem, you know there's no problem, but no, you can't tell them why there is no problem is pretty much a sure-fire way to make the problem worse.

You may think this issue is none of anyone's business, but quite clearly a lot of people feel otherwise. I might suggest that telling them it's not their concern is not exactly going to change their minds.

I might also suggest that in your vigorous defense of Eric, you are in fact weakening public perception of the strength of Eric's case with the tactics you are using - personal attacks, threats, extortion, and telling people it's not their business to be concerned with a situation that they clearly feel is their concern.

Perhaps you wish to re-evaluate your technique?

 

[Anonymous]

said what

He didn't say anything other than Eric didn't do it. Which is the same thing you are saying.

You have tried to rip sihaya's proof apart.

Where is this proof that it was just a big misunderstanding?

How did Eric help? He took off to Puerto Rico, did not tell the authorities that he was kicked out of his facility, and did not tell anyone that the corals were not being cared for and were dying.

 

[sihaya]

This is very old "news", but yes, at the time, there were some misunderstandings and issues between some parties involved, none of which were Erics fault and he did NOTHING wrong, in fact, if not for Eric, the situation could have gotten worse. Since that time, any misunderstandings have been cleared up, issues resolved and wounds were healed. To drag it out into an online gossip fest would only serve to do one thing. And that is to open old wounds and damage good working realtionships that are in place now. To do so, would serve what purpose here online? I can think of only one reason, and its not nice.

Chuck

Very well said Chuck!

Well, there are certainly a few researchers in the Keys who might have quite a lot to say to the contrary... maybe one of you should talk to them.

 

[StevenPro]

Actually, in some of those missing documents, Eric notified the CDHC within an hour of being locked out of Reef Savers.

 

[Anonymous]

I take it personal.

If someone else did this, people would be calling for their head.

Eric is more a hobby person and a hobby representative than anything.

If this had been someone with a pet shop, a hobbyist, someone with a tropical fish warehouse, people would be saying that these sort of things will be what will regulate the hobby out of business, how it gives the hobby a black eye, how this is exactly what people that are against the hobby would be looking for.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, in some of those missing documents, Eric notified the CDHC within an hour of being locked out of Reef Savers.

Eric is the CDHC!

 

[middletonmark]

Denials and summary dismissals ... not the way most people with the facts on their side act.

And what makes you think he or anyone owes you anything at all? Who are you that they must answer to?

Charles, Eric presented this at a conference, wrote an article about this project. It's a little to late to ask hobbyists who he hyped this project to to now turn a blind eye.

I think he needs to answer to hobbyists, to people who have bought his book, paid $$ to see him speak, and support sites/conferences/projects he is associated with. Plenty of folks have done the above, lots of folks have done every one of those. I know I have.

He's been paid to write articles for online mags, paid to have a forum online, paid to go talk/present his material - all by hobbyists.

If he doesn't want to give us the facts ... if he doesn't owe `us' some explanation - well then frankly I don't think we owe him anything either.

If he didn't want this project to be the discussion of hobby boards, perhaps he should have never made it so prominent in the first place.

 

[sihaya]

Perhaps you wish to re-evaluate your technique?

Very well articulated... this, and the whole post from which it came.

 

[StevenPro]

Actually, in some of those missing documents, Eric notified the CDHC within an hour of being locked out of Reef Savers.

Eric is the CDHC!

No, Eric was chairman of one committee of the CDHC.

 

[Charlesr1958]

Eric did not own those corals, those were Federally protected corals. Natural resources that are the property of the US public.

Eric did not secure a location to do his long term study. These coral lines will take several years to establish in terms of broodstock, fragmentation and grow-out times.

Obviously he did not secure a location, he was kicked out shortly after he got setup at ReefSavers. He did not own that location, it was not associated with any University, he obviously did not even have a lease.

How long was he going to wait to report getting kicked out and the corals neglected?

He was kicked out of ReefSavers, later discoverd that ReefSavers was no longer maintaining his corals, then he didn't tell anyone. Craig Watson found out and reported it.

Meaningless statements when formed and based upon the incomplete information that you have access to. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

Do not take this the wrong way, but it is the only way I know how to say it. Its none of anyones business. Not here online at least.

Quite frankly, all your wishing to the contrary aside, that's just not the case. Whatever merits - or lack of - this accusation may have, it's public, it's already out there, and it's not going to go away.

If this stalls here without any further information coming to light, people will remember it. It will not be forgotten. It will be talked about. It will be discussed. Many people have already expressed that they won't be shy in asking Eric about it, in public venues before others who may not yet be familar with the situation, thus spreading it further.

Quite a lot of us in the hobby have long memories.

Telling people who believe they see a problem that there is no problem, you know there's no problem, but no, you can't tell them why there is no problem is pretty much a sure-fire way to make the problem worse.

You may think this issue is none of anyone's business, but quite clearly a lot of people feel otherwise. I might suggest that telling them it's not their concern is not exactly going to change their minds.

I might also suggest that in your vigorous defense of Eric, you are in fact weakening public perception of the strength of Eric's case with the tactics you are using - personal attacks, threats, extortion, and telling people it's not their business to be concerned with a situation that they clearly feel is their concern.

Perhaps you wish to re-evaluate your technique?

Totally OT, but your new avatar is the bestest, BESTEST thing I have seen in a long long time.


Something else to add to your post - this topic is not only being discussed here, it has made appearances on almost every message board that is reef related.

 

[sihaya]

Actually, in some of those missing documents, Eric notified the CDHC within an hour of being locked out of Reef Savers.

Eric is the CDHC!

I think you mean was... somewhat coincidently, he stopped being chair in 2005.

 

[bleedingthought]

your new avatar is the bestest, BESTEST thing I have seen in a long long time.

I highly agree!

 

[Anonymous]

Meaningless statements when formed and based upon the incomplete information that you have access to. Sorry.

Are you going to play hide and seek with it Charles?

You've tried to attack the information that sihaya presented.
Where is this complete information that you have access to?

 

[StevenPro]

It is not ours to share. I will speak to what I can that does not damage other people.

Edit: By other people, I am referring to people that have not already been discussed.