Eric Borneman coral controversy

[Anonymous]

How many times does someone have to take a crack at it?

Cracker2 wrote:
I think the story is that federally protected corals were taken from a government facility, corals that were designated to be relocated, under federal law, to meet the Navy's requirements, and no one wants to talk about it.
Eric is just collateral damage.

 

[sihaya]

Doesn't knowing this undercut your allegations? If Eric did the things you suggest, won't he have been prosecuted?

Not if prosecuting him would call attention to all the mistakes of the people who would be thinking about prosecuting him. As Cracker2 has pointed out... it seems very possible that FKNMS was just embarrassed by the whole thing and simply wanted it to end as quietly as possible.

 

[middletonmark]

Doesn't knowing this undercut your allegations? If Eric did the things you suggest, won't he have been prosecuted?

Is Bomber in jail?
If he did the things alleged, wouldn't he have been prosecuted?

AFAIK, no such prosecution.

If you follow your logic, then he evidently has every right to keep Atlantic corals, as there has been no prosecution.

Careful what you argue for, as you have to hold everyone to that same standard

 

[StevenPro]

I don't know what Bomber did or didn't do. I didn't have anything to do with that situation. I was out of town and barely online when things went crazy last year.

 

[andybeats]

and i think people should be able to help the reefs and do research, but what part of that is what eric did? he should know better then to contaminate the corals with pacific species, it kinda ruins the experiment about coral disease when your looking into all the diseases in the world and not just the florida species.

There is absolutely no proof that Eric did that.

you said it yourself, alls it takes is one wholesaler employee to walk between tanks with a wet arm and its all in the drain, if it was me, i would make pretty damn sure that there was NO WAY! the corals can be contaminated, it shouldnt be iffy, it should be very certain. and i dont see a whole saler as the place to be certain, eric should have known better, since he is trying to do research, there should be no way to contaminate them, and leaving some very rare and protected species in the care of a fish store isnt a really good idea on anyones part. (have you ever been to a wholesaler? ive never been to reefsavers, but i cant see it being much different than some of the others)

 

[StevenPro]

ive never been to reefsavers

Me neither. I don't know if there are/were separate rooms and I don't know what the air handling is/was like.

 

[Anonymous]

The very first sentence of the permit application states explicitly that the corals are going to the Reef Savers facility. "Collections of corals from the FKNMS will be put into permanent culture at the designated facility (Reef Savers, Inc.) ..." Additionally, there is an entire passage on Reef Savers as the "Culture Site" on the second page posted of the permit application. For any of these NOAA individuals to allege later that they did not know that the corals were going to Reef Savers is utterly ridiculous.

No one has said it was ridiculous that NOAA didn't know they were going to Reefsavers.

NOAA was mislead into thinking that Reefsavers was something that it wasn't.
No one believes that NOAA would permit the collection of corals for disease research at a wholesale tropical fish warehouse that ships corals all over the world.

that entire quote from the permit reads

Collections of corals from the FKNMS, will be put into permanent culture at the designated facility (Reef Savers, Inc.), and used to establish colonal lines of coral for disease and bleaching research in the scientific community as part of the Coral Disease and Health Consortium.

under Qualifications, ReefSavers is described again.
Specifically as a coral culture facility
but also described as belonging to Eric.

Reef Savers, Inc., a coral culture facility in Houston, Texas. His facility is the chief site for the CDHC culture efforts.


[/b]

 

[Anonymous]

I think we might agree though on one thing. I think Eric was made a scape goat for other peoples' errors.

Errors that add up to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of protected corals. Removed from a government lab and taken to a tropical fish warehouse where corals are shipped in and out all over the world.

I agree.

Even though he is one of their own, the Chair of the Coral Health and Disease Emporium, and his stories should be easy to check out.

They dropped the ball, they did not check out his stories.

If they had checked out his stories before issuing the permits, this would have never happened.

 

[StevenPro]

The part where it says "His facility is the chieft site for the CDHC culture efforts." refers to the owner of Reef Savers, not Eric Borneman. The name of the owner was edited out.

 

[Anonymous]

oh sorry

then forget the whole thing

Eric told the truth and NOAA lied.

 

[sihaya]

You're being facetious, right?

 

[Anonymous]

He just walked in and told them that he wanted to haul several loads of protected corals to a tropical fish warehouse in Houston to establish clonal lines of protected corals for disease and bleaching research


and NOAA said sure fine, we do that all the time.

and gave him the permits.

 

[Anonymous]

You're being facetious, right?

You've been talking to the tip of the iceburg for too long and lost your sense of humor.

 

[sihaya]

You've been talking to the tip of the iceburg for too long and lost your sense of humor.

LOL... my bad.

 

[StevenPro]

Are you doubting that the owner of Reef Savers name was edited out of the permit application?

Anyhow, it is my understanding that Reef Savers was originally envisioned as a coral propagation facility, i.e. coral farm. Little to no importing. Around the time things went bad between Eric Borneman and Reef Savers, Reef Savers starting importing a lot and turned into more of a typical wholesale operation.

 

[sihaya]

Anyhow, it is my understanding that Reef Savers was originally envisioned as a coral propagation facility, i.e. coral farm. Little to no importing. Around the time things went bad between Eric Borneman and Reef Savers, Reef Savers starting importing a lot and turned into more of a typical wholesale operation.

It doesn't matter. As the permit holder, Mr. Borneman is ultimately and completely responsible for the corals. Whatever your thoughts about Reef Savers or their owners, it's of no consequence. They are not researchers. They had no affiliation with the University of Houston. It was not their responsibility to care for the corals, do the research or anything else (even if they said they could). It was not their permit or their NSF grant money being spent on the project.

 

[StevenPro]

So, do you admit you edited out the owner's name from the permit application? And, what else did you edit out? I know his name. It is rather short. Seems like the space is kind of long.

 

[sihaya]

Absolutely not. As I've said sooo many times, I did not alter these documents in any way.

Read the Q&A and understand how FOIA works. If a name was edited out, it was done by someone at NOAA or the FKNMS. Why they might have done such a thing... your guess is as good as mine. You can certainly call them and ask.

 

[bleedingthought]

If a name was edited out, it was done by someone at NOAA or the FKNMS. Why they might have done such a thing... your guess is as good as mine. You can certainly call them and ask.

I'm sorry, I've wanted to stay away from this specific argument, but now I'm intrigued. You seem to only be interested in the truth that harms Borneman. If you were interested in the whole thing, and whether or not Eric is to blame for something, you would want to know what they edited out of the documents.

 

[bleedingthought]

And why it was edited, also.