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Aerosmith":uol4gecy said:
...and then in an apparent attempt to get him to leave his beautiful wife and runaway into the sunset together, posts FOIA request response documents about his taking of protected Florida corals... or so the sordid story might go. Though I'm not so sure where the gossip train is right now. I think I lost track of it when it derailed somewhere around the "marriage license" comment. :roll: Seriously, would any of this be so fun to fabricate and gossip about if I were a guy? No, wait, please don't answer that...
Personally, I can't even phatham why people who claim to be friends of Mr. Borneman would risk embarrassing and insulting this man's wife and family by not-so-subtly hinting at such things.
StevenPro":3vovh8kf said:
That seems like strange advice given the current situation. It's obvious that this will not die down until the truth is know and out in the open. If Eric can clear his name, he should. I can understand if an attorney did not want him to incriminate himself, and could understand if NOAA did not want him to speak about it (though that would really concern me more than anything) but for him not to speak for this reason is odd and looks like he does not care about the truth, only his reputation. Even then it does not seem like the best way to handle this.
I'd be very happy to find out this is all a big misunderstanding, I'd also be surprised at this point.
wrott":3gb49r60 said:
That's interesting... but understand that Reef Relief is known for being a bit extreme. I think they've done a lot of good in the past and their hearts definitely seem to be in the right place. This is why I said that I find some validation in their support. However, I still have a great deal of respect for the organizations like FKNMS with which they've apparently come somewhat at odds with lately.
As a scientist, a couple of things jump out at me about this situation.
Look at the original permit application. The original intent was to identify a coral "model species" for research.
A model species in research is a representative species chosen for ease of care, short reproductive cycles, easily identified phenotype-linked genotypes, etc. So for mammalian research, the mouse is the model species because it's easily cared for, has a 3week gestation period (pregnancy time) and short lifespan, so multigenerational genetic studies can be done in a reasonable amount of time. For simple eukaryotes the model is C. elegans a simple worm. Or the fruitfly, the zebrafish for fish, etc.
So identifying and beginning a new model system for corals is a big deal, scientifically. Coming up with a system and exploiting it successfully and having it adopted by other scientists is a huge undertaking, almost a career in itself.
Ok, so great.
What the hell does this have to do with the project in Florida?
If I had to guess, I would think that it wasn't to identify a single "model species" as stated in the first couple paragraphs of the permit, because if you read further you see mentioned representative species from various geographic locales. I think the vested intent of the permit application was to start up a repository-type operation like this, with the gold-standards for coral species instead of mice:
http://jaxmice.jax.org/list/rax6.html
My link is an example - a quasi-scientific but for-profit operation with mice for sale. A researcher opens the catalog, "oh i need a mouse with defect x, or with x coat color, there it is #4521! I'll take a dozen yes overnight please". So the intent in the permit seems to be along those lines, but for corals. Having restricted species/strains would be huge in terms of scientific legitimacy.
All I'm saying is that the way things went seemed to not match the permit application, the original intentions stated. As someone who has both written and reviewed grant applications and renewals and I can tell you that the permit application looks like an attempt to coat-tail a for-profit venture on an academic premise.
Look at the original permit application. The original intent was to identify a coral "model species" for research.
A model species in research is a representative species chosen for ease of care, short reproductive cycles, easily identified phenotype-linked genotypes, etc. So for mammalian research, the mouse is the model species because it's easily cared for, has a 3week gestation period (pregnancy time) and short lifespan, so multigenerational genetic studies can be done in a reasonable amount of time. For simple eukaryotes the model is C. elegans a simple worm. Or the fruitfly, the zebrafish for fish, etc.
So identifying and beginning a new model system for corals is a big deal, scientifically. Coming up with a system and exploiting it successfully and having it adopted by other scientists is a huge undertaking, almost a career in itself.
Ok, so great.
What the hell does this have to do with the project in Florida?
If I had to guess, I would think that it wasn't to identify a single "model species" as stated in the first couple paragraphs of the permit, because if you read further you see mentioned representative species from various geographic locales. I think the vested intent of the permit application was to start up a repository-type operation like this, with the gold-standards for coral species instead of mice:
http://jaxmice.jax.org/list/rax6.html
My link is an example - a quasi-scientific but for-profit operation with mice for sale. A researcher opens the catalog, "oh i need a mouse with defect x, or with x coat color, there it is #4521! I'll take a dozen yes overnight please". So the intent in the permit seems to be along those lines, but for corals. Having restricted species/strains would be huge in terms of scientific legitimacy.
All I'm saying is that the way things went seemed to not match the permit application, the original intentions stated. As someone who has both written and reviewed grant applications and renewals and I can tell you that the permit application looks like an attempt to coat-tail a for-profit venture on an academic premise.
trido":3ippstti said:
Hmmm, speculation about who sihaya is, and then curiousity why said type of speculation has not gotten this thread locked yet. Am I the only one who sees the irony in your post?
I don't mean to pick on you specifically trido.Let's all please focus on issues pertinent to the discussion, rather than gossip and personal attacks about the people doing the discussing.
GreshamH":1zcu4q71 said:It's extremelly common for many NGOs to be at odds with the government :lol: Nothing new there
I just found it odd you where kind of compairing the two, when there is no comparisn. Apples > watermelons
Oh, I totally agree. I just wanted to be clear that I have respect for both of them (even if they are ever at odds with each other).
Man... I've read some of this nonsense and all I can say is: The sooner Sara is banned from ALL reef and related sites the better :wink: Seriously... Sara, you have some very real psychological issues that need addressed. Please ban her... PLEASE! ...make it stop
sihaya":5ibzj0su said:
I was just curious. I dont know you or anyone else involved in this personally, I am just a hobbiest and care about the hobby. I still think there are better ways all this energy could be spent and some serious causes that could better use all this attention
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