Eric Borneman coral controversy

[Anonymous]

Wait! Don't close it yet! I'm just finding out who the players are!!!!

So, according to DT's email, EB told him that he was going to use these rare corals to restore the reef, right? DT was helping him grow these corals to return to the reef? He was growing specific species of phytoplankton for them?

OK, so before the thread gets closed again, can we find out who you guys are? Who is Cracker? Who is Vitz?

Geez, I have so many questions still....

Can we continue this elsewhere?

 

[sihaya]

LOL Aerosmith - this thread is 37 pages long! It's going to breakdown under its own weight soon. Just PM me and maybe I can help.

 

[Rook]

Wow, lots happened in the last few days.


I have a question.

Was Eric working under the University of Houston? He is a student there right? Was this a project of the University's? Or, of Eric's? If it was a University project, has the University been contacted about all of this?

If this was Eric's project, how? University's rarely, if ever, allow their Ph.D students do outside research projects. In Michigan students have to sign a policy noting that all their research is under the instruction of the University and any intellectual property gained under those research projects is owned by the University.

Plus, How did Eric get a permit or a grant in the first place. He's just a student, not an expert. No student or even a post-doc is an expert in anything. No student should ever be entrusted with a permit like this. We can see what happens when students are given permits for such projects.

IMO, while Eric is the smaller story on the grand scale of fault in this problem, Eric is the story for this hobby. A hobby that considers Eric an expert and treats Eric as the coral messiah. This situation shows us just how much of a research expert Eric really is, and should put into perspective all of these supposed hobby "experts", only a few of which have Ph.D's in their respective fields.

 

[sihaya]

Was Eric working under the University of Houston?

Theoretically, yes.

He is a student there right? Was this a project of the University's? Or, of Eric's? If it was a University project, has the University been contacted about all of this?

Tough question. According to the permit ap, Mr. Borneman's NSF grants were used to partly fund the project. Does that make it a project of the University? I'm not sure.

If this was Eric's project, how? University's rarely, if ever, allow their Ph.D students do outside research projects. In Michigan students have to sign a policy noting that all their research is under the instruction of the University and any intellectual property gained under those research projects is owned by the University.

Yeah, it's weird... I'm not even entirely sure UH knew all about this.

Plus, How did Eric get a permit or a grant in the first place. He's just a student, not an expert. No student or even a post-doc is an expert in anything. No student should ever be entrusted with a permit like this. We can see what happens when students are given permits for such projects.

Again, it seems to be an odd situation.

IMO, while Eric is the smaller story on the grand scale of fault in this problem, Eric is the story for this hobby.

Agreed.


But anyway... it looks like this thread is going to close in <30min. So let me just say again, if anyone has any questions they think I might be able to answer, please PM or email me. And I'll be working to keep the site updated.

 

[Anonymous]

So, according to DT's email, EB told him that he was going to use these rare corals to restore the reef, right? DT was helping him grow these corals to return to the reef? He was growing specific species of phytoplankton for them?

Absolutely not.

Mr. Borneman was chastised in the review of his permit application for that.

Comment:
Don't loose focus of this proposal. It was to establish coral cultures for research purposes not restoration. You seem to mix in another agenda.

.

 

[sihaya]

Comment:
Don't loose focus of this proposal. It was to establish coral cultures for research purposes not restoration. You seem to mix in another agenda

In all fairness to Aero - it looks like a lot of people lost focus. Just recall the comments in the margins of the permit ap. It looks like everyone was a little confused.
:?

 

[Liquid4ce]

Turn out the lights... :lol:

Ultimately this fiasco is just old news... All three parties, Borneman, the Sanctuary, and Reef Savers played equal roles in a well intentioned project gone wrong.

Good luck on your vendetta Sara. I hope at some point you'll have a moment of clarity or an epiphany or something and come to grips with your true motivation. Whatever feelings of resentment or rejection you harbor towards Borneman can only do you more harm in the long run.

Best,

Kid Ego

 

[Anonymous]

IMO, while Eric is the smaller story on the grand scale of fault in this problem, Eric is the story for this hobby.

I've said all along. Mr. Borneman is not the story, Mr. Borneman will just be collateral damage.

 

[sihaya]

IMO, while Eric is the smaller story on the grand scale of fault in this problem, Eric is the story for this hobby.

I've said all along. Mr. Borneman is not the story, Mr. Borneman will just be collateral damage.

And that's a good closing post I would think.

 

[Liquid4ce]

Nah. I want the last word...

WORD :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Ultimately this fiasco is just old news... All three parties, Borneman, the Sanctuary, and Reef Savers played equal roles in a well intentioned project gone wrong.

You are mistaken.

Mr. Borneman and Reef Savers are not mandated to protect our natural resources.
Only the Sanctuary is responsible for that. Only the Sanctuary is required to check credentials and stories, and they are the ones responsible for seeing that our natural resources are used for the public good.
Issuing permits, after the fact, for protected corals to go to a facility that's main purpose is to culture corals for the pet industry, is not protecting that natural resource.
Unless the Sanctuary wants to change the rules and allow pet shops to start selling protected corals.

sihaya handed the right people/organizations this information on a silver platter. Information that they did not have or know of prior to this.

.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, so WHO are Cracker, Liquidforce, Vitz?

Is one of them EB?

 

[Liquid4ce]

sihaya handed the right people/organizations this information on a silver platter. Information that they did not have or know of prior to this.

.

So maybe something will be done... I doubt it, it's the Federal Government we're talking about after all... but who knows. I think the odds would much greater though if Sara weren't the one spearheading this thing.

http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail/co ... 04216.html

 

[Anonymous]

It does not matter. You are only seeing this from a hobby point of view.

 

[sihaya]

Is one of them EB?

Nope

And I agree with Cracker2 - you gotta step outside the hobby a little to fully understand just what a big deal this is/was.

 

[Liquid4ce]

It does not matter. You are only seeing this from a hobby point of view.

Cause' I'm too ignant to see the big picture? Please...

 

[Anonymous]

Not ignorant at all.

No one that matters will care who sihaya is, only people in the hobby will know that and only people with a hobby point of view will care who shearheaded it.
It does not matter where the information came from.
The information is factual.

 

[Liquid4ce]

It does not matter where the information came from.
The information is factual.

So what would you like to see done about it? Assuming part of this pieced together speculation is accurate... huh?

 

[sihaya]

Kid Ego- it's a big iceburge. Follow the questions all the way back. Why were these corals ever taken down from that wall in the first place?

 

[Anonymous]

There's no speculation, and these are the facts.

Ultimately this fiasco is just old news... All three parties, Borneman, the Sanctuary, and Reef Savers played equal roles in a well intentioned project gone wrong.

You are mistaken.

Mr. Borneman and Reef Savers are not mandated to protect our natural resources.
Only the Sanctuary is responsible for that. Only the Sanctuary is required to check credentials and stories, and they are the ones responsible for seeing that our natural resources are used for the public good.
Issuing permits, after the fact, for protected corals to go to a facility that's main purpose is to culture corals for the pet industry, is not protecting that natural resource.
Unless the Sanctuary wants to change the rules and allow pet shops to start selling protected corals.

sihaya handed the right people/organizations this information on a silver platter. Information that they did not have or know of prior to this.

.