Paypal fee...

[Wolverine57]

2.9% + $0.30 USD
when the money comes from a debit or credit card or PayPal Credit. Someone is making money on 4%

 

[beerfish]

I don't have a problem with it if the transaction is one hobbyist selling to another. I do have a problem with a business requesting the fee.

Paypal is convenient and inexpensive. A real merchant account has fees as well, and usually a monthly cost. If you're running a business, it's your responsibility to consider the expense of credit card transactions and price accordingly.

 

[adamt]

Price of the item(s) has no bearing on which direction the 3% should go; it's the merchant's responsibility. Should the shops at Woodbury Commons tell you to pay their Amex fee because they're selling you that leather jacket for below their retail stores?

I've bought this issue up before and was ignored. There are vendors/sellers here that charge the 3% like it's their privilege and right. However, if their local retail store did it to them, they'll be up in arms! :lol2:

Larger retailers often cut deals with with credit card companies for a lower percentage because of the volume of sales. They also look at what percentage of their sales credit cards and adjust the price of products to reflect what they will have to pay to credit card companies. The main diff between this and what you guys are talking about is that the large companies are smart enough to build any additional costs they might incur into the price of the item they are selling.

If the smaller vendors like guys in the hobby yall are talking about were a little more business savy they would just adjust increase the cost of all their items like 1.5% cash or credit, so they dont have to ask for a fee.

Its pretty common for gas stations to charge more for gas when using credit cards so the practice is not w/o precedent. Having said that, accepting credit cards is the price of doing business on the internet, if you are a vendor it looks real bad to ask for the fee. Customers already pay a percentage to credit card companies, for the service they provide (instantly approved loans basically), and vendors pay a % because accepting credit cards increases their sales. I believe that the fee a credit card company or pay pal charges a vendor is their burden to bear since customers are already paying credit card companies for the priviledge of using them.

 

[NYreefNoob]

you cannot ask to have the fee covered on paypal and if you threw a stink about someone doing it ebay will shut the account down if proved they did, you also cannot change more for an item when it is being paid for by a credit card, gas stations will show a lower cash price but cant say they need x amount if a cc is used. we were charged 3% for mastercard and visa and others but were at 4% for amex. and in the business i was in that really add's up on 2k-10k repairs on fee's

 

[albano]

you cannot ask to have the fee covered on paypal and if you threw a stink about someone doing it ebay will shut the account down if proved they did, you also cannot change more for an item when it is being paid for by a credit card,

+1

Customers already pay a percentage to credit card companies... since customers are already paying credit card companies for the priviledge of using them.

What customers pay a % to their CC co.? Interest on balance..yes, interest for the purchase/privilege...
If you have to pay for the privilege...then you probably shouldn't have a card.

There are cards with no annual fee, and IF you pay off your balance each month, you pay no fees or interest!

 

[Widdy]

Larger retailers often cut deals with with credit card companies for a lower percentage because of the volume of sales. They also look at what percentage of their sales credit cards and adjust the price of products to reflect what they will have to pay to credit card companies. The main diff between this and what you guys are talking about is that the large companies are smart enough to build any additional costs they might incur into the price of the item they are selling.

If the smaller vendors like guys in the hobby yall are talking about were a little more business savy they would just adjust increase the cost of all their items like 1.5% cash or credit, so they dont have to ask for a fee.

Its pretty common for gas stations to charge more for gas when using credit cards so the practice is not w/o precedent. Having said that, accepting credit cards is the price of doing business on the internet, if you are a vendor it looks real bad to ask for the fee. Customers already pay a percentage to credit card companies, for the service they provide (instantly approved loans basically), and vendors pay a % because accepting credit cards increases their sales. I believe that the fee a credit card company or pay pal charges a vendor is their burden to bear since customers are already paying credit card companies for the priviledge of using them.

Not sure why you're quoting me, but okay.

If the merchants has buying power and can flex on their affiliated credit card companies for a lower rate, more power to them. Yes, vendors can adjust their item prices so that the Paypal fee are built in, why they don't? I can't answer that... perhaps they must remain competitive, and building in the fees takes them out of the potential sale?

Why your gas station charges more for credit card usage is their choice; as well as yours to get on the cash line. Unless they're violating someone's TOS, they're in the clear. Charging for Paypal fees is clearly violating Paypal's TOS. Feel free to take a look:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/m...ntent_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US

Section 4.5.

 

[Alfredo De La Fe]

4.5 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

Charging for Paypal fees is clearly violating Paypal's TOS. Feel free to take a look:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/m...ntent_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US

Section 4.5.

 

[adamt]

Not sure why you're quoting me, but okay.

If the merchants has buying power and can flex on their affiliated credit card companies for a lower rate, more power to them. Yes, vendors can adjust their item prices so that the Paypal fee are built in, why they don't? I can't answer that... perhaps they must remain competitive, and building in the fees takes them out of the potential sale?

Why your gas station charges more for credit card usage is their choice; as well as yours to get on the cash line. Unless they're violating someone's TOS, they're in the clear. Charging for Paypal fees is clearly violating Paypal's TOS. Feel free to take a look:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/m...ntent_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US

Section 4.5.

I was quoting you cus i agree with you.

Albano- I was refering to interest, and yes you can get a card with no annual fees and pay off the balance each month, the reason I brought it up was to say thats how credit card companies make money from their users because many people who use them do keep a balance on them.

My whole point is that I believe its in bad taste for vendors to add additional charges for varying payment methods, and I dont agree with the practice. Even my cable company charges an extra $5 if you want to speak to a real person to make a payment as opposed to using their automated system. I believe those charges are the cost of doing business, and the correct way to do business is to take those expenses into account, come up with a price for a good or service that covers your expenses and provides a profit you're happy with, and if someone wants to buy from you they will. But, pay pal terms of service aside, if you dont like the way a vendor does business you are in no way obligated to buy from that person, and with the world just a mouse click away you can always find someone else with whom youd rather do business.

 

[guarda]

If paypal's fees weren't so egregious (gouging), I'd feel no sympathy for businesses trying to pass on their transaction costs to stay competitive but as was said above, we are generally talking about small time sellers trying to make a living at the same time offering us reefers personalized service, which is usually very very good. So yes, I do make the effort to research feedback and gift the payment. In this case, eBay/paypal's greed is less important than our fellow vendor's profits. I'd rather pass the money to our vendors.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Yep its their fee..

I don't have a problem giving a vendor (I only deal with a few) 3%- I buy 100 bucks worth of stuff and I pay 103? Not a big deal. But I'll tell ya if a vendor gives great prices hes not making much then minus 3% hundreds of times if they pay it for each sale- in this event there would be a lot fewer vendors giving those great prices because they'd go under.

The main vendor I deal with on here I consider more of a couple of friends that have always done me right, why not do right by them and throw them a couple of bucks.

just my opinion.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I agree to some extend because of the TOS with Paypal if both sides view it as a commcercial transaction.

However, I also remember MANY members here argued that they should not pay NY sales tax for purchases in this forum either because most of the sales are personal effects, which actually is against the LAW-not just a commercial contract between the seller and Paypal.

If all the buyers honored the NYC sales tax law, I am pretty sure, most sellers here will have no issues honoring their contract with Paypal of the usage fee. I personally feel the margin in most items offered here are too close to go under, therefore, many vendors, have attempted to find not-so-legit ways to compensate for that. But over time, most vendors who AFTER BEING A VENDOR FOR SOME TIME will start to revert back to the proper way of business by absorbing the Paypal fee, including me. In fact, for couple times, I have absorbed service fee of refunds REQUESTED AFTER the FREE refund grace period outlined by Paypal.

 

[beerfish]

If paypal's fees weren't so egregious (gouging), I'd feel no sympathy for businesses trying to pass on their transaction costs to stay competitive but as was said above, we are generally talking about small time sellers trying to make a living at the same time offering us reefers personalized service, which is usually very very good. So yes, I do make the effort to research feedback and gift the payment. In this case, eBay/paypal's greed is less important than our fellow vendor's profits. I'd rather pass the money to our vendors.

Paypal's fees are far lower than most merchant account's fees. If you don't like the service, don't use it.

I researched a merchant account for my business. The percentages were around the same, but with additional costs monthly, additional costs for an online gateway, and additional costs if you want a physical terminal.

I now use Paypal for online transactions, and Square for physical transactions. I don't have a problem with companies that I use making money. If they don't make money, they won't be around for me to use.

 

[guarda]

Unless they lowered their fees from a few years back and changed their cruddy practices in playing judge, jury, and executioner in disputes, I try not to use paypal whenever possible. I never had a problem with them but have had many business partners who did. Their fees are high and their service is shoddy ime. I only use them to convenience others. "don't like it, don't use it" is irrelevant here. If I don't like something, I voice my opinion and try to get others to enact change.

following

Paypal's fees are far lower use.

 

[guarda]

And it's not about paypal making money either. I want them to make money, so they can innovate and reinvest and give me better service. Not the case with paypal. I've been using and following them since I started my first business in 2000. Prices were reasonable, service was crappy, but they provided an innovative and convenient service. Forward to 2011. Now prices are unreasonable AND service is crappy. A company that uses profits to stifle international competition instead of bettering their mousetrap while slowly raising their prices all around hopefully fails sooner or later. But I'm glad it works for you and you're content.

 

[JonnyJ]

And it's not about paypal making money either. I want them to make money, so they can innovate and reinvest and give me better service. Not the case with paypal. I've been using and following them since I started my first business in 2000. Prices were reasonable, service was crappy, but they provided an innovative and convenient service. Forward to 2011. Now prices are unreasonable AND service is crappy. A company that uses profits to stifle international competition instead of bettering their mousetrap while slowly raising their prices all around hopefully fails sooner or later. But I'm glad it works for you and you're content.

could not agree more.

 

[guarda]

Finally!

 

[Alex]

Finally!

That sounds great, an alternative to paypal by AMEX.

 

[cthoughts1]

I find that most of the time paypal is used is when you come to an agreement with a seller and want the seller to do you the favor and hold the item for you until you can arrive at their location to pick it up yourself, so as to avoid the item being sold to someone else. So in other words the seller is doing the person a favor of receiving what would otherwise be a cash payment via paypal so as to be assured that the item is payed for and the purchaser is not a flake. I see no reason why the seller under these circumstances should take a 3% loss and in fact I never have a problem paying them that 3% to hold the item. Most of the time when I pay a seller via paypal I send them the payment as money owed anyway because I see no reason why our vendors should have to pay paypal the additonal 3%, on top of all their other operating costs. In my opinion, that would just raise our hobby prices an additional 3%. MOST of our vendors are great and aren't necessarily making a killing on the stuff they are selling us, so why jerk them another 3%?

Also, just food for thought, if a seller incorporates 3% into their prices so as to not charge that paypal fee, wouldn't everyone (even the people paying cash upon pickup) get screwed by paying that additional 3%? Why would we want to drive prices up that way? I think most sellers don't incorporate that fee because they expect cash upon pickup and because they want to keep their prices as competitive as they can. Makes sense to me..

Raul, although I understand your situation, there is a flip side to that coin. Look at it from the seller's perspective. He's trying to come to an agreement with you and trying to accomodate you by even delivering the goods. I assume the only reason he is asking for half as downpayment is because he wants to make sure you don't flake (I know you wouldn't) like many people on here. So in essence he just wants to receive the entire price he is asking for for the items he is selling. I'm sure he isn't calculating the additioonal 3% to the money you are paying him cash because he is receiving that money in full. But the reality is if you had picked up the goods you would have paid him the entire amount in cash and he wouldn't have to pay that 3% and I'm sure he feels as strong as you do about not having to be held up for that 3% fee. It sounds like the seller is just trying to be made whole in his asking price.

Now if that 3% is $.30 or if that 3% is $30 may make a difference. What I would suggest is, if you feel so strongly about the 3% and you want to come to an agreement, agree to pay the 3% on the half you send via paypal. Upon delivery and inspection pay him the entire amount owed for the goods in cash and have him refund you your paypal payment. This way the seller is assured he won't get stiffed and you don't end up paying the 3% on half the money. Just my .02 cents (which by the way is 3% of .60 cents).

 

[itsaNYthing]

It is also against most TOS to have a minimum purchase in order to use a credit card. In fact, in some States/Cities it is illegal. But it does cost a store every time a credit card is swiped, so I dont fight this unless they were obnoxious or something...

At my store i have a minimum, i work on very small markups and i refuse to swipe anything under $8, with these transaction and merchant fee's, it wouldnt be worth my while. My merchant sales rep knows this, and agrees with me. If they even tried pulling a stunt to kick me off, id laugh in there face cause theres tons of other merchant services i can use.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I find that most of the time paypal is used is when you come to an agreement with a seller and want the seller to do you the favor and hold the item for you until you can arrive at their location to pick it up yourself, so as to avoid the item being sold to someone else. So in other words the seller is doing the person a favor of receiving what would otherwise be a cash payment via paypal so as to be assured that the item is payed for and the purchaser is not a flake. I see no reason why the seller under these circumstances should take a 3% loss and in fact I never have a problem paying them that 3% to hold the item. Most of the time when I pay a seller via paypal I send them the payment as money owed anyway because I see no reason why our vendors should have to pay paypal the additonal 3%, on top of all their other operating costs. In my opinion, that would just raise our hobby prices an additional 3%. MOST of our vendors are great and aren't necessarily making a killing on the stuff they are selling us, so why jerk them another 3%?

Also, just food for thought, if a seller incorporates 3% into their prices so as to not charge that paypal fee, wouldn't everyone (even the people paying cash upon pickup) get screwed by paying that additional 3%? Why would we want to drive prices up that way? I think most sellers don't incorporate that fee because they expect cash upon pickup and because they want to keep their prices as competitive as they can. Makes sense to me..

Raul, although I understand your situation, there is a flip side to that coin. Look at it from the seller's perspective. He's trying to come to an agreement with you and trying to accomodate you by even delivering the goods. I assume the only reason he is asking for half as downpayment is because he wants to make sure you don't flake (I know you wouldn't) like many people on here. So in essence he just wants to receive the entire price he is asking for for the items he is selling. I'm sure he isn't calculating the additioonal 3% to the money you are paying him cash because he is receiving that money in full. But the reality is if you had picked up the goods you would have paid him the entire amount in cash and he wouldn't have to pay that 3% and I'm sure he feels as strong as you do about not having to be held up for that 3% fee. It sounds like the seller is just trying to be made whole in his asking price.

Now if that 3% is $.30 or if that 3% is $30 may make a difference. What I would suggest is, if you feel so strongly about the 3% and you want to come to an agreement, agree to pay the 3% on the half you send via paypal. Upon delivery and inspection pay him the entire amount owed for the goods in cash and have him refund you your paypal payment. This way the seller is assured he won't get stiffed and you don't end up paying the 3% on half the money. Just my .02 cents (which by the way is 3% of .60 cents).

That really nails the point! I remember that's how paypal started to be so widely used in this forum from years back. It is a mean mutually accepted by the sellers and the buyers to reserve items.

My personal statistics of my buyers-verbal reservations(dips) show up/transaction completed rate is less than 50%. Paypal show up/completed rate is close to 99%.