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Kalkbreath

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Tell me agin. how they are going to fix Global warming and food fish blasting? Just how do they think that new coral frag transplants will survive, if the reasons that killed the original native corals is not changed?
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clarionreef

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Thank you Mike for all the effort and sacrifice to get this new alternative moving!

Of course its not a reality yet but its moving forward. Compared to groups that have not been moving forward for years, I think that you will pass them in measureable achievement soon and become successful.
Why would I think this?
Simply this. For the first time an in-house person ie. one from the ranks of the aquarium trade and the proverbial school of hard knocks that implies suggests a way to break the impasse. For the first time, a group arises that when talking you don't have to back up and explain what a sarcophyton is or what a problem heraldis [ angels] are and why blue tangs are so important as an indicator species etc.
For the first time all the terms are understood from the get-go and we're already into the meat of the issue. First we'll already understand each other and the search for remedies will be seen as so much more 'matter of fact'.
Outside professionals have such a built in suspicion it seems about so many things we already know to be true. Their sense of logic is so often on a different plane and in the case of many...stays that way.
But outsiders saw opportunity while the aquarium traders were so busy trying to make sales and make a living in this difficult business. Outsiders brought ambition, infrastusture and corporate logic to the table [ and minimized critical factors and truths that kept the best and brightest among us on the outside of their planning.]
As an insider with the welfare of the fisherman and the village at heart, Mikes CORL initiative already relizes how villager involvement and motivation are at the core of any sustainable reforms. CORL already has internalized the wisdom to promote remedy from the ground up instead of from Mt. Olympus down. And I could of course go on and on...
Mike, count me in for support in any way and thanks again for giving us choices and alternatives to conventional dogma about the issues we need to get right in order to keep making a living from.
Its about time people from the trade stepped to the plate and gave us something we can support wholeheartedly!
A fellow insider,
Steve Robinson
 

Mike King

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Thanks Steve,
If you would like to review the whole Program Proposal let me know, I'd like your input as always. I will contact you after I get moved so we can discuss whats needed for the Net Training course that the program will also be offering. Coastal Resource Management is only going to help the near shore reefs at the village / community level in the Philippines. The coral reefs that are far from shore are being currently being heavily harvested and need help also. The National and regional offices will be able to address the issues that concern these distant reefs and will make recommendations on actions that need to be implemented.
Seeing I’ll be in the PI next month for a meeting, I would like to toss the following ideas at you…
I’m thinking that the PI Govt. needs to license the long range collectors boats to start, and then the govt. branches need to break up the reefs into harvest areas so a lottery could be used to create a rotational fisheries on those reefs. I think this is needed what actions do you think are needed?

Mike
 

dizzy

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Mike King":36pd1rnr said:
I’m thinking that the PI Govt. needs to license the long range collectors boats to start, and then the govt. branches need to break up the reefs into harvest areas so a lottery could be used to create a rotational fisheries on those reefs. I think this is needed what actions do you think are needed?

Mike

Mike,

What did the CRTF have to say about the aquarium industry at the latest meeting? Were they satisfied with the MAC efforts? Were Paul and Dave there? I think John Brandt said he was going to answer some questions on RC.

Mitch
 

Mike King

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Mitch, the USCRTF sumed it up in their report to congress, look for the link in the general reef keeping forum. It is a need to be read by all.

Mike


yes John Brant was there.
 

clarionreef

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Hello Mike,
There are lots of things that we can contribute for the Bureau of Fisheries consideration. Chief Sarmiento is open minded and will certainly listen. A number of long range boats have run into trouble recently as areas once there for looting, have been denied to them. Case in point...Busuanga, the blueface angel gloryhole for decades is now under local control! As long as it takes real reform to get off the ground, things change. In fact, they can change so much faster than our ability to keep up with it sometimes. The old blueface longrange raiders are now blue damsel specialists and come back with tens and thousands of blue damsels at a time. Crowding, ammonia, starvation etc. all come into play.
Other than rotating the collectors like odd and even gasoline days, I think that focus should be primarily on really training divers properly so no matter where they go, it will be with less impact and with the proper array of nets so that there will be no holes in their collecting gear to temp them back into poison. If the local authorities are getting hip, as they most certainly are now, then they will deal with unliscensed raiders. No matter how remote an area, there are still local people that could be taught to utilize their own nearby resources. Why lose it to carpetbaggers?
Real, bonafide training with seriously trained and equipped trainers, [ especially Muslim trainers where the best fish remain ] are the key to making the industry not so much a short time user of marinelife but genuine fisherman of the same living collecting areas near their homes.
If the raiders are not welcome in anothers shoreline, thats their local, political problem and hard to remedy by this industry. Empowering the locals, wherever they are, is, I think, the best way.
The right materials coupled with the right training methodology will make a world of difference. Since it hasn't happened in so long, it will make a big, initial impression. Divers wil line up to be trained.
Steve
 

Mike King

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Steve I need to buy some barrier nets for use in AS can you give me the tel # of a good supplyer?

Thanks
Mike
 

Kalkbreath

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I see...............? also how is it going to be possible to keep the different coral "lots" or certificate groups, seperate from the last weeks shipments of certified corals? Having a seperate cube or tank for each shipment is going to be interesting to say the least .........And at the retailer point of sale ? I hope you are going to tag each coral ?
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Kalkbreath":36kw4agi said:
I see...............? also how is it going to be possible to keep the different coral "lots" or certificate groups, seperate from the last weeks shipments of certified corals? Having a seperate cube or tank for each shipment is going to be interesting to say the least .........And at the retailer point of sale ? I hope you are going to tag each coral ?

mike king wrote:

All of CORLs products must be sold with their mariculture ID tags in place. If a coral dies in transit the tag is to be sent back to CORL, CORL also has a unique base that is a secondary ID method. The tags we use are tamper proof and cannot be removed without damage to the tag.

kalk-read this thread
 

Kalkbreath

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Thanks for the link.....did they ever say why they thought new coral transplants would live if the reasons why the native corals died was not changed? also if a typhoon comes and blasts the lagoon the maricultured corals are growing in.........how many years will it take them to restock? I did notice that mike was open about blast fishing , but the reason for so much cyanide food fishing and the reason testing has shown 40% of groupers to be positive .........is that blast fishing is noisy.....so in order to go unheard,and un noticed, food fisherman will use juice to flush out the groupers and wrasses ........you cant hear cyanide from five miles away, like you can blast fishing...........!Kaboom!
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Mike King

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Kalk, the first part of CORL’s coral reef restoration program (as any coral reef restoration project) is to address the Anthropogenic factors and implement corrective measures for only then can reef restoration occur. There will always be natural disasters that will destroy coral farms just as they will damage natural reefs. How many years will it take to restock ? hmm try a month or two, storms create the coral fragments naturally and an abundant supply can always be found afterwards.
You still seem to be missing the point on the blast vs NaCN fishing
NaCN is used mostly in the catching of Groupers and large Wrasses by the Live fish food industry not the average village fisherman. The fishermen who use cyanide are mostly those using long range boats from Hong Kong and Taiwan. The Cyanide used by locals is mainly for the marine ornamental trade, some fish killed by its use do show up in local village wet markets and can easily be Identified by lack of net, hook, and spear wounds. They are getting smart though, many add spear wounds after the death of the fish (always missing the meat somehow). The reason that 40% of the groupers test positive is that they are mainly being collected from those foreign long range boats and the smaller long range village boats who go to the outer far reefs and sell their catch to the foreign ships. The local fishermen have to travel far from their regular in shore reefs because the far reefs are the only ones where the large groupers and large wrasses can still be found. Fishing in the near shore reefs is mostly a waste of time because the coral reefs there have been blast fished into rubble and it will take decades for those reefs to naturally recover. The methods we use however can bring back coral cover in those areas in as little as 5 years and will also bring back fish species as the coral cover increases. CORLs Coastal Resource Program uses both Marine Protected Areas and rotational use of restored areas. We are against all forms of destructive fishing and our program is supportive of village and governmental enforcement of laws to end DFPs. After we send out the final program proposal draft for review we will make it public and you can see th e total scope of our Coastal Resource Program proposal.

Mike King
 

Kalkbreath

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I understand all of this , but if you can restock your coral stocks in a few months, then what you are selling is coral frags {mounted} and unless you have outstanding color morphs{ rare stock } that no wild stock can compare , only then can you hope to make it work ..Dateline Tonga, solomon islands and Walt are all attempting to do the same. But in order for the hobbyist to be willing to pay more for your product, you must be able to prove that your company can make a difference out on the reef. The ability to keep fishermen from blasting or juicing or even crowbarring coralheads to drive fish out { into into barrier nets} is going to be very difficult at best. Also interesting as it may be, it seems that aquarium fish are in greater supply in areas which the groupers and wrasses have been overfished? A study In Hawaii and other IP locals has recently shown that reefs in which there has been an end to fishing and collecting { reefs now fully protected from any man activities} has shown in EVERY instance a decrease in the number of reef fish ? It seems that when the grouper numbers recover, there are few fish OTHER then groupers ? Seems MAN is no match compared to mothernature at decreasing fish supplies!Perhaps this is why overfished for seafood reefs like the Philippines are still the most abundant reefs in the world in reguards to the sheer number of fish ? Few goupers means more reef fish for the hobby!
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PeterIMA

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Reply to Kalkbreath, Please cite the study you quote that stated that aquarium fish numbers declined in areas that were fully protected from all kinds of fishing in Hawaii. Was it a report by Dave Gulko of Hawaii DENR?
I would like to know whether you really know what you are talking about.

Peter Rubec
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Kalkbreath

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Well wether I Know or HOW , is not the real question.........If you know the truth,why is it such a secrete! Why is the truth such a scary thing in this industry? I see your new.........Check out all my others posts and learn just how much I do know about the industry behind the hobby?
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Mike King

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Hey Kalk,
Could you please post the source of the info Peter asked for, I'd really like to read it too.

Mike King
 
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Mike, and Peter:

here's a copy of a post of mine from the 'how much would you pay' thread regarding the work of Dr. Charles Laidley and Dr. Robin Shields.i'd like to know what you guys think... :)

A consortium of research organizations has been working on stock enhancement for severely depleted red snapper populations along the Gulf Coast since 1996. Funded through the National Marine Fisheries Service, the group includes the Oceanic Institute, the University of Southern Mississippi's Gulf Coast Research Laboratory (GCRL) and Mote Marine Laboratory in Florida. The focus of the project is to develop technology and tactics for using hatchery-raised fish to restore depleted marine fish populations.
Culture research efforts are being headed by OI's Finfish Program under the direction of Dr. Anthony Ostrowski in a project led by Dr. David Ziemann. Dr. Charles Laidley and Dr. Robin Shields lead broodstock and larval rearing efforts, respectively. The goal is to develop intensive propagation capabilities for stock enhancement and then to transfer that technology to the GCRL.
Spawning of captive red snapper was first achieved in 1978 by Arnold, et al. They were able to accomplish a series of small spawns of 2,000-3,000 eggs, but were unable to keep broodstock populations alive.
About a year ago, OI brought in Charles Laidley, a reproductive physiologist and Robin Shields, a larval physiologist to head two teams in OI's effort. Laidley's team's goal was to spawn the red snapper, while Shields' team tackled rearing the larvae. Not only did they get the fish to spawn, but they also got them to spawn outside of their natural reproductive season. However, Laidley says, "We have made some significant advances, but are really still in the early stages of development. This species is particularly difficult to work with due to the development of intense aggression in correlation with sexual maturity."
The consortium's primary objective is enhancement of the natural stocks. OI's first obstacle was to establish quarantine protocols for working with a non-indigenous species and then to overcome the difficulties related to the constraints of working with transported animals over extended distances. In early 2000, research on transport methods led to greater survival rates for both larvae and broodstock. Although the initial focus of the research was to develop transport protocol for successful transfer of larvae, the natural spawning achieved has, according to Ostrowski, "given us great confidence that we will be able to produce eggs and larvae that will more rapidly advance research and the objectives of the consortium."


Thus having successfully created a more effective transporting system, the OI team focused on developing a technology with which they would have more control of the larval rearing process. This would allow them to provide larvae and fingerlings when they wanted it and as many as they needed.



The spawns produced eggs that were up to 78 percent fertile over a period of about one month. Many of the spawns produced over 150,000 fertile eggs each. Laidley anticipates that OI will be able to do even better in the future. The goal is to create technology to produce spawns of over a million eggs on demand.
When rearing larvae, most institutions are unable to get their fish to even reach mature stages. OI's team was able to rear the red snapper to maturity. This brought them to the same point the researchers had reached in the 1970s. However, through their research they discovered preliminary evidence that aggressive behavior emerges as the red snapper reaches adolescence. The animals become so aggressive that eventually they all kill each other. It was this behavior that halted the research in the 1970s, but not OI's. Through good husbandry protocols, water-quality and feeding practices, OI was able to overcome some of the problems encountered in the 1970s and 80s by other research teams.
Now the OI hatchery team is attacking the obstacles associated with the first-feeding stages of the larvae when in captivity. The larvae are so tiny (0.7 mm) that the artemia and rotifers usually fed to larvae are too big for them to eat. Initial studies by the GCRL show that the plankton-rich brown-water found in the Gulf of Mexico is optimal when filtered and condensed. However, because the natural environment is hardly reliable, OI is developing protocol for the culture of the plankton needed by the red snapper.OI's success also puts a bright spot in the future for farmers. Techniques to ensure year-round spawning and mass culture methods of the larvae (which are difficult to rear) to provide a reliable source of fingerlings are likely to be developed as an outcome of their breakthrough.
 

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