• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

jamesw

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It is public knowledge that John does not make one cent from his position with MAC.

So it it my humble opinion that he is not motivated by money - and that comment is just posted to make him look bad.

Like Len, I would much rather see constructive feedback posted in this thread - instead of negatives. If MAC and CORL are not able to work together and we need to hear why, then would y'all please try to stick to the facts?

Cheers
James
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This thread has reached an unexpected and unfortunate turn. There is a need for a decent civilized explanation for what went on. There seems to be differing opinions.

I will seek a response from MAC on a clarification from their end. However, I can assure you that I am personally not responsible for their executive decision-making.
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
John_Brandt":sjyut4hi said:
There is a need for a decent civilized explanation for what went on. There seems to be differing opinions.

I will seek a response from MAC on a clarification from their end.

John,

Does there? I mean, really, is there such a need?

In all of the explanations and dissections of who did what, who said what, and when, does anything help to serve the movement?

Frankly, I don't think so.

The other question that begs to be asked:
Why is the CORL/MAC accord even being discussed in the AMDA Net and Training Fund thread? The AMDA fund has nothing to do with the breakdown in relations between CORL and MAC. To me, this looks like a way to discredit AMDA using a 'guilt by association' means.

If there is the need to 'clear the air' so to speak, have at it privately.
Or split this thread.

I realize that this turn happened due to something I posted, where I attempted to outline different things going on to Lee as he seemed to be confused and I thought that my outlining things could help make things clearer. In talking about what went on with CORL/MAC, I was intentionally vague. I blamed no one person or entity. Frankly, I thought that this was in both party's best interests. Sometimes things just don't work out. Leave it at that.

I'll ask you again, John... Is there really a pressing need to explain?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

dizzy

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Mike R King":v4fqy9ps said:
Mike Kirda, You have my permission to give out a brief outline or summery of the 350K proposal if you have the time.

Mike King
Founder and Director of CORL.
www.corl.org

I would be very interested in seeing this 350K proposal made public since Mike King has given permission to do so.
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
dizzy":1gtbq9sa said:
I would be very interested in seeing this 350K proposal made public since Mike King has given permission to do so.

Mitch and all,

I would be delighted to give an outline of it.
I ask, in return, for some patience. "Why?" you ask?

Well, because I'm going to Graceland, leaving straight after work tonight, and will not be back until late Sunday.

(And before the Elvis jokes start flying, no, it was my wife's idea...
I drag her on these silly net-caught fishing trips, she drags me to Graceland.
Turn-about is fair play, I guess...)

In turning the proposal into something for public consumption, I will be having to edit things, explaining what some items are for, etc. It may take me a few hours of time, and I will likely submit it to Mike King for approval before I post it. This may take a few days, time that might be better spent in helping locate grant funds for CORL to implement the plan.

So, I ask that all have some patience. If you want to inquire on the progress, please do so via e-mail. I am typically very prompt with my replies.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

Smyerscough

Active Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
mkirda":1l6ra8jc said:
dizzy":1l6ra8jc said:
I would be very interested in seeing this 350K proposal made public since Mike King has given permission to do so.

Mitch and all,

I would be delighted to give an outline of it.
I ask, in return, for some patience. "Why?" you ask?

Well, because I'm going to Graceland, leaving straight after work tonight, and will not be back until late Sunday.

(And before the Elvis jokes start flying, no, it was my wife's idea...
I drag her on these silly net-caught fishing trips, she drags me to Graceland.
Turn-about is fair play, I guess...)

In turning the proposal into something for public consumption, I will be having to edit things, explaining what some items are for, etc. It may take me a few hours of time, and I will likely submit it to Mike King for approval before I post it. This may take a few days, time that might be better spent in helping locate grant funds for CORL to implement the plan.

So, I ask that all have some patience. If you want to inquire on the progress, please do so via e-mail. I am typically very prompt with my replies.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Thankyou thankyou verymuch
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
To the readers

The more I read these threads, the more I am convinced that the "reform efforts" of individuals attacking NGOs, in particular MAC, are neither unified nor sincere.

Please analyze this.

In his last post Mike King stated, "I was never that excited about working directly with MAC". M. King was not that excited, but he looked at working with MAC just to obtain project funding for CORL. M. King is really driven by almighty dollar. The message I got from it is that M. King can do anything, even deal with a group he doesn't feel confortable with, only for the almighty dollar. How sad!

I found inconsistencies, as probably you have, about the proposed "training plans" from the different groups as follows:

Robinson's training plan is US$60K / 1,000 collectors / year
Robinson's more recent plan US$ 60K / 1,000 collectors / 2 years

King's -Low budget plan- US$ 100K / 500 collectors / (18 months?)
King's - High budget plan- US$ 350K / 1,000 collectors/ 18 months

If Robinson and King form a team as M. King stated, why the training plans are that different?
I hope you understand the readers do get confuse with these kind of inconsistencies.

Sincerely

Jaime
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":tvie5fzi said:
Robinson's training plan is US$60K / 1,000 collectors / year
Robinson's more recent plan US$ 60K / 1,000 collectors / 2 years

Jaime,

Can you point me to the source for this statement?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hey Boss,
If you scroll back a week to June 30th it says quite clearly that the notion of a one year, 1,000 man training nationwide was obviously a mistake. Its simply there in black and white.
As for the real one year proposal that was being developed thru CORAL, it was not for 100K. That, as Mike explained in black and white was what MAC wanted to do. No salaries for any trainers and no food allowance during the trainings might get it closer to that. Also if you toss out the development of ecosystem management planning...
Mike made it clear that the entire mission could not be achieved for so little and the rest of the alliance with MAC drifted thru mutual disinterest.
Sincerely, Steve
ps Doesn't Jaimes nasty and offensive post deserve a response from the resident hall monitor or school marm? He owes Mike King an apology for speaking to rudely.
 

dizzy

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Go ahead and blame some of the confusion on me. I was at an AMDA BOD meeting and the $60K figure got tossed out there. I think the need to raise serious funds came from the fact that MAC was not acting too interested in co-operating with CORL/and or Ferdie so we were willing to help try to raise money to pay for training, as well as to supply netting.

I am not speaking for AMDA, but I feel comfortable in saying that many dealers just want healthy, sustainably caught fish, and do not really want a lot of red tape and paperwork that just put more hours of work on top of the overtime we are already working. (KISS) I think most of the people working for the NGOs are doing so because they want to help, and not for the money.
 

Mike King

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero Said:

Please analyze this.

In his last post Mike King stated, "I was never that excited about working directly with MAC". M. King was not that excited, but he looked at working with MAC just to obtain project funding for CORL. M. King is really driven by almighty dollar. The message I got from it is that M. King can do anything, even deal with a group he doesn't feel confortable with, only for the almighty dollar. How sad!

If you were to open your eyes you might come to understand that it was at the request of other parties that I even thought of becoming involved as I have previously posted. I was looking for funding for the net training project not CORL, and yes I will work with an orginization that I'm not tottaly comfortable with. It's the collectors and villagers who need the help, if it means setting aside some differences to get the job done, so be it!

No need for me to go any further for those that know me also know I'm not in it for the money. Enough said......

LOFA'

Mike King
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Mike,

I said these threads, there are many.

- Is reef.org aiding the sale of cyanide caught fish?
- Is MAC fraudulent?
- Who is imperial ?
- Letter to Paul Holthus
- MAC press release for finding Nemo film
- John Brandt's MAC Philippine report
- AMDA and Net training fund

Jaime
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":3nqv30i4 said:
Mike,

I said these threads, there are many.

{snip}
Jaime

Jaime,

Are you replying to me here? A quick scan of said threads revealed no such information about Steve's 60K plan... Maybe when Mike King and I are both involved in a thread, you might consider adding our last names so it is readily apparent whom you are addressing? Purty puleaze?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
dizzy":9divgpkn said:
Go ahead and blame some of the confusion on me. I was at an AMDA BOD meeting and the $60K figure got tossed out there. I think the need to raise serious funds came from the fact that MAC was not acting too interested in co-operating with CORL/and or Ferdie so we were willing to help try to raise money to pay for training, as well as to supply netting.

I am not speaking for AMDA, but I feel comfortable in saying that many dealers just want healthy, sustainably caught fish, and do not really want a lot of red tape and paperwork that just put more hours of work on top of the overtime we are already working. (KISS) I think most of the people working for the NGOs are doing so because they want to help, and not for the money.

Mitch, don't blame yourself for all of the confusion. There are mixed messages weaved thoughout all of this. I was not joking when I asked; what the hell is going on here?

If you scroll back to June 11th of this thread you will see that Steve Robinson mentions the $60,000 figure. Plenty of times in the recent past we have seen Steve speak of this magic 1,000 trained fishers number. In one posting he even seems to suggest that 1,000 can be trained in what remains of 2003. Robinson has previously given figures here for how much netting would be needed to do 1,000 fishers, and it sure ain't $60K.

Again it would be comforting to clearly know what is the "plan"? Is there more than one plan? What is the involvement of CORL with this all? What is the involvement of AMDA with all this? Where does the cash that the MSI Netting Fund raised fit into all this? What becomes of the fish that this net training campaign produces? Are they parted among the AMDA members? Are they preferentially sold to exporters? Do the cherries go to Cortez Marine? We are hearing noises that this is primarily a netting fund; but why did Robinson originally ask for it to be titled, "AMDA Net & Training Fund".

CMAS-Chicago contributed cash to this fund. Mike Kirda and myself are members of CMAS, and at the minimum I want some good feelings out of it.
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
John_Brandt":1raum8lx said:
Where does the cash that the MSI Netting Fund raised fit into all this?

John,

MSI had absolutely nothing to do with the AMDA fund.
All cash raised by MSI was used to purchase the netting and send it over. There *may* yet be enough to pay for customs clearance fees and other associated charges, and we are hoping to have enough yet to pay for delivery. If there is any money left over, I believe that Mary will give it to Ferdinand in order to help pay for plastic jars used to hold the fish during collection.

I trust that this is clear.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ok, thanks. But then the netting that was sent over by MSI is netting that the AMDA fund won't have to purchase? You see if Ferdie and Steve are on the receiving end of that MSI netting then it gets weaved into the mix of plans and budgets with relation to the AMDA Fund, right?

I'm not trying to be combative, but it would really be helpful if everyone knew just what was going on. Backing up and reading forward from months ago in these threads does not lead to a good understanding of what is going on. I'm not the only one confused.
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
John_Brandt":tgcxw2rv said:
Ok, thanks. But then the netting that was sent over by MSI is netting that the AMDA fund won't have to purchase? You see if Ferdie and Steve are on the receiving end of that MSI netting then it gets weaved into the mix of plans and budgets with relation to the AMDA Fund, right?

I'm not trying to be combative, but it would really be helpful if everyone knew just what was going on.

John,

MSI and AMDA are not cooperating in any way that I know of.
At this point, Ferdinand is just off operating on his own, privately.
In talking to him, I identified netting as an appropriate way of making a contribution. I believe Mary did so as well in talking to him independantly.
Her fund started as a way of getting needed hand-netting material to the collectors...

During this same time, it is no secret that others decided to try to work with Ferdinand, to find some way to help finance his independent net trainings. Mike King through CORL and Steve Robinson through AMDA have been trying to obtain funding.

It is possible that CORL will get funded. In this case, AMDA may use whatever is in the pot at that point to buy barrier netting material. If CORL's proposal does not get funded, AMDA will have to fall back on 'plan B', meaning far less ambitious goals. Instead of 1000 trained, they would likely have to cut back to just a couple of villages. Steve has already said this, but it seems to have been lost in this seemingly mythical 1000 collectors trained for 60K proposal... Quite the nice cat to pull out of a hat, but we both know, John, that it could not be done for that amount, nor did Steve ever claim it could be. There would not be enough money for netting materials and food, let alone for the salaries for the trainers for the year it would take...

The funniest thing I see here is how MAC could never be bothered to answer the simplest of questions, yet now expect other competitors to lay bare their souls. Why is MAC attacking now? I wonder how MAC would react if AMDA responded by in true MAC-fashion... I'm sorry, but we cannot answer that. That would reveal proprietary information. :D

In all of this, there is one thing I do know. The netting sent over *will* be distributed to the collectors. They will finally have the proper materials for hand nets. I can only hope that one of the other proposals get funded so the collectors can get the proper barrier netting material: Netting that is not made in the Philippines, and is not available there. (I've since had private communications regarding the suitability of the barrier netting available in the Divisoria area: That netting material is made with too fine of a monofilament, and causes damage to the fish fins and scales. It also does not hold up under daily use.) The proper netting material needs to be imported.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Guys,
Once I had lg Passer angels on my stock report for $35.00
The three wasn't very legible so I whited it out leaving just the number 5.00 . Anyway the stock report went out without filling in the three again to lots of customers.
You wouldn't believe the number of customers that were upset to find out that it was just a misunderstanding. They wanted those big passers for five bucks and wouldn't take an innocent explanation as an answer. A large imported passer for $5.00?? Who could believe such a thing?
This insistance that a "mention" of a 60K "target" to support a big nationwide training by CORL is like that. Wow! Nice value if it were possible. We can do a lot with that as I said but to accomplish the whole thing for so little?
I know we can train much, much better than what has gone before but the whole enchilada for five bucks on the passer will not happen.
Sincerely, Steve
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top