Practicing what he preaches

[Kalkbreath]

Still cant explain yourselves ............Half the fish are damsels. These damsels cost 20 cents ,which means the collectors get pennies per fish .........The cyanide costs a few pennies cents per squirt. .............so either damsels are not colected with cyanide or they are loosing money each time thy collect them...........or Damsels are collected many fish at a time. Do you also realize how long it takes a collector to collect twenty dollars worth of damsels ONE AT A TIME? Collectors would not collect damsels if they collected them one at a time ..........they would fish for other higher dollar fish ...........?

 

[MaryHM]

Kalk,

Damsels are a staple of the fish industry. Probably the top bread and butter fish. Exporters are going to demand these fish period. Do you ever see an exporter that only offers high dollar fish like the big angels, marine bettas, mineatus grouper, etc??? Of course not! Also, the areas some collectors live in (correct me if I'm wrong, Steve), don't have the high dollar fish or the high dollar fish are so scarce that the collectors have to collect the bread and butter "cheapie" fish just to make ends meet. Quit thinking in black and white, Kalk. This industry is a rainbow of shades of grey....

 

[Kalkbreath]

Then answer this simple question.........are damsels in PI collected ONE at a time? Either with cyanide or without? Half the fish in the industry ..............half the fish claimed to be cyanide collected hang in the ballance of The answer.................WHATS YOURS?

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
MOST areas don't have high dollar fish anymore.
Nor do most areas have high dollar food fish anymore...least of all high dollar cyanide caught live food fish.
Small fish that recruit well in marginal areas are what lurk off the villages these days.
Damsels, chromis, gobies and blennies.
Many are caught with nets. Many are caught with cyanide. Depends on the people. Depends on the area. Never so black and white as some would want it to be.
INCREASINGLY THIS TRADE IS BROUGHT TO US BY THE LONG RANGE BOAT...that boldly go where no CAMP has gone before.
A nice and neat theory...that all the fish will come from a managed area off designated coordinances nearby. [Ssshhh...When outsiders are around this can be pretended.]
Because of decades of the depletion Kalk says didn't exist....the fisherman range far and wide and often in a 'crop rotation' that traverses hundreds of miles...and lasts for s few weeks.
Steve
ps. Aggregating damsels are often collected by herding with push nets now...quite a number can be taken in this way rather efficiently.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Mary,
MOST areas don't have high dollar fish anymore.
Nor do most areas have high dollar food fish anymore...least of all high dollar cyanide caught live food fish.
Small fish that recruit well in marginal areas are what lurk off the villages these days.
Damsels, chromis, gobies and blennies.
Many are caught with nets. Many are caught with cyanide. Depends on the people. Depends on the area. Never so black and white as some would want it to be.
INCREASINGLY THIS TRADE IS BROUGHT TO US BY THE LONG RANGE BOAT...that boldly go where no CAMP has gone before.
A nice and neat theory...that all the fish will come from a managed area off designated coordinances nearby. [Ssshhh...When outsiders are around this can be pretended.]
Because of decades of the depletion Kalk says didn't exist....the fisherman range far and wide and often in a 'crop rotation' that traverses hundreds of miles...and lasts for s few weeks.
Steve
ps. Aggregating damsels are often collected by herding with push nets now...quite a number can be taken in this way rather efficiently.

I will also talk in the third person,{ I dont know why but steve did it} Mkirda, Tell Mary to tell Steve that Kalk agrees with what he typed ..........But he forgot to answer the question directly . "are cyanide collected damsels done so one by one? Of the supposed 350,000 cyanide colected damsels.........how many are collected one by one?

 

[clarionreef]

No, they are often caught in aggregates . But sometimes one, and sometimes a coral head full by various methods.

Steve

 

[mkirda]

Then answer this simple question.........are damsels in PI collected ONE at a time? Either with cyanide or without? Half the fish in the industry ..............half the fish claimed to be cyanide collected hang in the ballance of The answer.................WHATS YOURS?

How many times do you want the same question answered, Kalk?
You have already asked this same question.
I've already answered it twice.
What is/was wrong with my answer(s) the first two times that you feel you had to ask the same question again?

 

[Kalkbreath]

No, they are often caught in aggregates . But sometimes one, and sometimes a coral head full by various methods.

Steve

Finally the first! Then that means the fish collected with cyanide in P! are not on average collected one by one. There fore it does not take 780,000 squirts to collect 780,000 fish . How many does it take? :wink:

 

[mkirda]

No, they are often caught in aggregates . But sometimes one, and sometimes a coral head full by various methods.

Steve

Finally the first! Then that means the fish collected with cyanide in P! are not on average collected one by one. There fore it does not take 780,000 squirts to collect 780,000 fish . How many does it take? :wink:

Gee, that was the question I posed to you to start off a thread.
Now you are asking me?

:roll:

 

[Kalkbreath]

And I stated that about 78,000 would collect all the cyanide fish for the year...........thats ten fish per squirt. But now that Steve has set me straight............Taking into account that half of the 780,000 cyanide fish are damsels ..........that number would likely be more around 20 fish per squirt. forty for the schooling damsels and two for the remaining fish .............................so less then 35,000 squirts per year for the intire 25,000 square kilometers and two-thousandplus islands ...............or less then one squirt for every squire mile of reef...................Do you really think that one squirt per year is going to have much of an effect?

 

[MaryHM]

OH geez, Kalk. Leave it to you!! We were doing so well sitting here doing nothing quietly today. You broke the silence!! Now I guess we have to go back to sitting here doing nothing loudly. :?

 

[mkirda]

And I stated that about 78,000 would collect all the cyanide fish for the year...........thats ten fish per squirt. But now that Steve has set me straight............Taking into account that half of the 780,000 cyanide fish are damsels ..........that number would likely be more around 20 fish per squirt. forty for the schooling damsels and two for the remaining fish .............................so less then 35,000 squirts per year for the intire 25,000 square kilometers and two-thousandplus islands ...............or less then one squirt for every squire mile of reef...................Do you really think that one squirt per year is going to have much of an effect?

Do you really think this, or are you just trolling again?

Again, Kalk, I can identify at least two assumptions in the above that are wrong, and have been pointed out to you before to be wrong. The entire argument collapses right there. Bang. You're done. End of story.

But then again, you are 'practicing what you preach', right?
<Attempt at light-hearted joke>
Arguments so holy, Kalk should be the next Pope, and the first one to make Swiss cheese to boot. </joke>

 

[Kalkbreath]

Then list the incorrect assumptions ......you really dont want to be pinned down by actually having to answer the questions ....... :wink: And I see Mary still cant offer anything as well.............Do you think that every cyanide fish is collected one by one? ................ Run reeformers run....the truth is catching up!

 

[mkirda]

Then list the incorrect assumptions ......you really dont want to be pinned down by actually having to answer the questions ....... :wink: And I see Mary still cant offer anything as well.............Do you think that every cyanide fish is collected one by one? ................ Run reeformers run....the truth is catching up!

Why repeat? Why rehash? If you cannot bother to read the thread and respond at the time the arguments are made, why should I cut and paste the same stuff again, Kalk?

Use the search link. It is just above this, between FAQ and Memberlist.

 

[Kalkbreath]

You have never stated anything to reread? If so then quote it? ............................................. like my math teacher told me.........."show your work" ................. A parrot can shout out an answer, show us how you arrived at the conclusion? How many cyanide fish are sold in the USA each year ? I say less then ten percent of the fish actually taken home by hobbyists are cyanide collected and I backed it up with your numbers ........I also say that less then 100thousand cyanide squirts are used to collect those fish . If what I state is correct then , very few hobby fish die in the hobbyists aquariums from cyanide exposer.......and very few corals out on the reefs are exposed to cyanide. If you disagree, then express your position. this is a public request for participation so anyone can reply ...........Mkirda seems to have trouble remembering his past thoughts ........... :wink:

 

[hdtran]

You've gone way the heck off-topic.

Of course, I'm not a moderator or in the industry, but might I suggest that you start a new topic if you wish?

 

[mkirda]

Mkirda seems to have trouble remembering his past thoughts ........... :wink:

Kalk,

I remember all the past arguments. They go like this:

You build an argument on made-up numbers.
I point out the fact that the numbers are wrong.
I ask for a citation to prove me wrong.
You ignore the request.
You continue to state your argument as fact, despite the fact that the numbers are demonstrably wrong.
I (or someone else) pulls the references that back us up, and prove you are wrong.
You try to discredit the reference by any means possible, typically by trying to argue against established statistical method or established scientific method.
We point out that attacking the underpinnings of all science is infinitely harder than proving your argument.
You start throwing in random and unrelated minutia, like the fact that you went to high school with some 'star', make reference to hanging chads: You seem to love quoting or alluding to democratic presidential candidates.
I tell you to stop blowing smoke up the forum's rear.
You actually start getting back to your initial point.
You ask me to repeat my point again.
I ask you to go back to step two and re-read.
You ask me to repeat myself, then insult me.

Rehash, reheat and repeat, Kalk.
That is all you do.

At this point, I consider it extremely rude behavior.
All you do is drive people off of this forum, Kalk.

 

[PeterIMA]

Mike, I would say that that is his point and those he represents (which appear to be the views of some larger LA importers). They don't like the heat from the reformists, so they get Kalk to blow smoke.

Peter

 

[clarionreef]

Tran,
Its not thread 'drift'' its thread hijacking and theft.
For lack of popular support for ones ideas, threads can just be latched onto and driven til the original stuff is lost and supplanted by Kalks bogus and made up numbers dogma.
Its amazing how few supporting posts have ever been made in Kalks history here.
I mean, how can you alienate 99% of the audience?
Horge said it right. He's our very own Simplicio. The chase rabbit, the devils avocado :? as it were.
I wouldn't mind this pretense of mathematical idealism so much if it would stay in identifiable posts that I could choose not to visit.
Robbing others posts to then occupy has ruined dozens of contributions from others. Perhaps RDO would consider Kalks very own post section called 'Kalk Rants'.... Then, if he could be barred from anywhere else, it would be interesting how poorly visited his own section would really be.
Afraid of what he has to say??
Of course not. Just irritated by Kalk Spam, like other spam... on endless loops that never go anywhere.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

One of the things about having a free and open exchange, is the fact that anyone can participate.