Kalkbreath":1vhezo0h said:But this silly notion that its possible to effect the reefs with our limited collection is just not fare . And is with out any merit what so ever.
Kalkbreath":b9xpek6a said:Do you realize how many times mass murderers like Bundy and Casey have been accused of a certain murder........only years latter find out that it was impossible for either one them to have been in that state or city at the time of the murder.
Kalkbreath":1nkmu12u said:What happened to your 9 out of ten die on the reef mantra? Now its fifty percent? That s quite an improvement in such a short time {the MO Meeting and speech was last week} We importers know how many fish die in transit.......its about 5 to ten percent. Then 5 to ten percent again in the next five days . Twenty percent is a bad shipment. Many exporters will give credits if its over 20% . Credits hurt the exporters bottom line. So they do everything possible to keep DOAs limited. What you fail to consider is that everyone involved is trying to make money. The collectors, the exporters and the importer to the LFS. You silly notion of 90% DOA cannot work when the resources are limited.. Even you state that there are not that many fish to collect. The days when no one cared if most of the fish died was twenty years ago , back when the fish supply seemed inexhaustible. Today A blue tang collector knows if he is lucky enough to find a school of regals ....that he had better calibrate the cyanide to "STUN" not kill. You cant have it both ways, either the fish supply is still huge and the collectors can afford to waste fish .....or the collectors realize that they have limited fish supplies and killing most of the target fish will surely leed to little profits to feed his family with . Your data is far out dated as is your understanding of the fish import business. As far as how many fish die at the holding facilities on the islands? I have know idea. other then what they tell us . But keep this in mind. Of the fish that are in high demand......there is a shortage. If you think the exporters are going to knowingly let fish they are sure to sell ....die before they ship them .....you are underestimating their desire to make a profit. The only fish that die in large numbers being held are the fish nobody wants. .......fish that sit week after week like brown tangs and brown groupers the exporters dont care about because they are worth very little . Kinda like the live coral in PI . If the coral was worth something to the islanders they would take better care of it. .........Whose idea was it to ban the export of coral from PI?
How do you come up with 80 million this time ? That would mean 28 to one ratio? If fifty percent of the fish die either at collection or before being exported,that would be 6 million fish not 80 million. 1,560,00 to collect 780,000 {50% DOA}and of the 780,000 twenty percent more for DOA in holding. So 156,000 plus 1,560,00 = 1,720,000. for the cyanide fish and we still have the 2,340,00 remaining non cyanide collected fish plus twenty percent DOA during holding for export ...........totals 4.528 million fish. NOT 80 million! See even if the fish arrive DOA in America, those dead fish are still part of the three million total fish exported. They are listed on the Fish and wild life permits whether they are dead or not . .............4.528 million fish per year and I used your numbers ....... :wink:PeterIMA":6h3xz4l5 said:Kalk, Your attempts to minimize the numbers of fishes exposed to cyanide (780,000 figure cited above) ignores the fact that 50% of the exposed fish die on the reef and only about 10% are fishes of interest to the trade (hence the others even if they survive are not collected). You still have not come up with a reasonable explanation why 80 million fishes are killed so that 3 million are exported and continue to die through the chain-of-custody from collector, to exporter, to importer, to retailer. Until you or someone like Elwyn Seagrest (he claimed that I must be wrong at MO 04) provides hard numbers to refute my claims, I continue to assert that the cumulative mortality from reefs to retailers is over 90%.
Peter Rubec