Quarantine System Advice.

[Anonymous]

i was just asking you what led you to believe they were pressurized, and that the pressure caused them to explode. :?

 

[Anonymous]

Didn't I answer those questions?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, what we had was constructed very much like a gigantic canister filter (around 7' tall, as I remember), inlet at the bottom, outlet near the top, sealed (with a lid/access point on top) on both ends. As I said, it's been ages since I've seen them (about ten years).

One of my big jobs at this particular facility was to clean old PVC for reuse. It was often brittle, and had a large amount of mouse/rat droppings and urine in and around it (this was around '94 - think HANTA virus). The substance I had been instructed to use to clean it was muriatic acid.

vitz wrote:

i was just asking you what led you to believe they were pressurized, and that the pressure caused them to explode.

seamaiden wrote:

Didn't I answer those questions?

i see nothing that indicates what lead you to believe it was pressurized, (like a pressure gauge on the bed chamber) and i see no account of any 'explosion'.so i guess my answer is 'no, you didn't answer the question' :?

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz, we use fluidized beds the way you described it.

 

[Anonymous]

IMO SM is talking about fluidized bead (little beads) filters which are pressurized, not fluidized bed (sand) filter which typically aren't pressurized.

Hey Rob, hows what you described help treat disease? I mean, what does a biofilter actually do to rid your fish from disease?

 

[Anonymous]

IMO SM is talking about fluidized bead (little beads) filters which are pressurized, not fluidized bed (sand) filter which typically aren't pressurized.

Hey Rob, hows what you described help treat disease? I mean, what does a biofilter actually do to rid your fish from disease?

gresham

please explain what you mean by 'pressurized'

i've used both the sand, and the bead filters, both ran exactly the same way

they were split off the main filter line, and the flow going into the filter was what controlled the flow rate, and media level in the filter

afaik, the only difference between the two is the media itself, not the basic design of the filter, and the media can be interchanged between the two

 

[Anonymous]

I was talking about one type of bead filters vitz, not all run like you have mentioned.

One unit that comes to mind is similiar to this guy:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/123ponds/fiprfi.html

or this:

http://www.pondbiz.com/home/pb1/page_10 ... ilter.html

or this:

http://www.pondtech.net/bf.html

or this:

http://www.aquaart.com/AquabeadVortex.html

or this:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... l/iid/4717

or any of these:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... ead+filter

 

[Anonymous]

lol

ok i think i know where the mix up is, here...

i worked with pressurized bead filters at the last lfs i worked at

they are NOT fluidized bed filters, and hardly 'fluid' to begin with-they're far more similiar to the 'old' sand pool filters (hayward comes to mind)

the size of the beads is generally quite larger than the teeny ones found in a fluidized bed filter

(we had one burst and all the beads got into our system, hehe-black spheres about 1/8-1/4" in every tank)

they were very similiar to the 'aqua bead vortex' filters in your link, and they are relatively very high maintenance, ime-constant backwashing and air agitation every week, or 2x/week, just to keep the spheres in motion, and a huge detritus trap, as well

we had mebbe 6-8 of those filters, and they took up way too much time/work, and i don't think they compare biologically to a fluidized bed

sea's description of a tall cylinder doesn't fit the description of a bead filter though, it's far more like the description of a typical fluidized bed filter-which is the source of my (still existing) question

bead filters are fatter in relation to their length than the fluidized beds are

hope that explains my still existing confusion re: sea's post

 

[Anonymous]

Yah, the 7' thing kinda points to a huge sand filter, huh?

Who knows though, DIY can produce some amazing things.

 

[Anonymous]

The units we had were of a smoke-colored, but clear plastic, and cylinders. However, the beads inside were quite tiny, and because you could see inside, you could see that the beads were swirling about. They were not chambered as the cutaways in these other bead filters show. When I said "pressurized", I meant that the water was being forced through the unit, as in "under pressure". Rather like what filters our swimming pool. I can see where it appears as though I was saying the filter itself blew, it didn't. It was the plumbing that broke/blew. That was why I brought up the PVC and its quality (or lack thereof).

These filters were "comp'd" to us, I honestly don't recollect by whom. They were supposed to be 'state of the art' in biological filtration. Came to us in wooden packing crates off a ship - can't recollect from where - and we had to go to the San Diego port to pick them up. Like I said, it was ages ago.

 

[Anonymous]

they were standard fluidized bed filters, and not pressurized, then

thx for clarifying

 

[Terry B]

Have you considered treating new fish with hyposalinity therapy rather than copper? It works just as well for treating ich, doesn't suppress immune function and its not toxic to fish. If you must use copper then I would suggest Cupramine, because it is more effective and better tolerated by sensitive species. Did you read the series on ich in Advanced Aquarist Online magazine?
Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I did. But would hyposalinity work prophylactically? I was under the impression that the copper method would be the least amount of stress. And that hyposalinity was kind of a last ditch effort, or when copper was not an option.

How would you propose a q system that utilized hypo?

 

[Jayson]

Kalk, Is 100 mil per 500 gal a little on the high side?Bassler reccommends 1mil per 100l some people will use it at 2 mil per 100l. Maybe this is why your water turns cloudy.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk, Is 100 mil per 500 gal a little on the high side?Bassler reccommends 1mil per 100l some people will use it at 2 mil per 100l. Maybe this is why your water turns cloudy.

Thanks for the input, But why would it turn cloudy thirty hours later? Has anyone else used it ?

 

[Jayson]

it is hard on the filter system bacteria. You are probably experiencing a bacteria bloom.

 

[Anonymous]

our typical dose for system wide treatment was 2 drops per gallon in the system, while individual tanks w/identifiable problems (turns out to be more w/fw fish, like ropefish,that come in w/an interesting worm from the wild)are dosed to as high a level as is possible, depending on the hardiness of the species

those tanks are either water changed, or heavily aerated before going back online

the in line uv's most better lfs's run on large multiple tank systems also break down formalin rather rapidly

 

[Terry B]

Hi Rover,
If you read the entire 5 part series on ich then you already have a good idea about the type of quarantine methodology that I would recommend. Hyposaline conditions can be used to control parasites such as Cryptocaryon irritans (ich). No single method of treatment will eradicate every type of parasite or other pathogens for that matter. I would actually consider using copper as more of a “last ditch effort.” Hyposalinity has several advantages over copper. Copper suppresses immune function, is toxic and is a major stressor. Hyposalinity therapy does not have these disadvantages. In fact, hyposaline conditions are quite effective for alleviating the effects of stress caused by handling and transport. I go into some detail about this in an article planned for the May issue of Advanced Aquarist Online magazine called “Reducing Losses Associated with Transport & Handling in Marine Teleost Fish.”

I believe the best way to acclimate transported fish is not to subject them to rapid changes in pH and temperature. They should be removed quickly from transport bags and put into a holding facility. There you can begin to slowly adjust the pH and temperature over a couple of days. Ideally, the fish would be transported in hyposaline conditions. However, since they are usually not transported in low salinity you should take a couple of days to reduce the salinity to a therapeutic level. The minimum quarantine period should be three weeks. I realize that this is not practical commercially. Hobbyists should be quarantining all new fish for 3+ weeks prior to placing fish into display aquaria. Once the treatment period has ended the salinity should then be slowly raised back to NSW over 4 to 7 days. Check the pH and alkalinity daily as the pH tends to fall in diluted saltwater.

I do not recommend long-term formalin baths. Formaldehyde is highly toxic, immunosuppressive and can damage delicate gill tissues. Formalin should only be used in a short-term bath. It is not particularly effective against Cryptocaryon irritans. The best use of formalin is for treating brooklynella, monogenean (gill flukes) and turbellarian (black ich) infections. I recommend a series of (total of three) 45 minute dips in aerated water at a dose of 1ml/gal. Use only as a dip and repeat the treatment once a day every third day. That is 20 drops per gallon. Use formalin that says it is 37% on the bottle.
Here is a link to an article that I wrote for SeaScope.
http://216.168.47.67/cis-fishnet/seascope/99SS1601.htm
Terry B

 

[Anonymous]

Terry, so your one of the people who thinks its better not to acclimate, but to throw the fish directly into the system after 24+ hours in the bag? In our experience, we loose a much higher % with that method.

Here are the links to Terry's 5 part series. BTW Terry, I find it much easier to read a series, when theres links to the rest in the article I'm reading. look over Randy's articles, he does an insane job of linking the reader up with all his related articles.

Part 5
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini5.htm

Part 4
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini4.htm

Part 3
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini3.htm

Part 2
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini2.htm

Part 1
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /mini1.htm

 

[Anonymous]

We tend to just acclimate for temp and dump. We used to do the slow drip and acclimate for pH and salinity, but often had fish stressing out in the bags. We have very little loss. I figure the sooner you get them out of the polluted water and into clean water the better. ie prolonged exposure is worse than a salinity or pH jump.