Quarantine System Advice.

[Anonymous]

As a result of a thread a while back, we have decided to build out a quarantine system for our live stock at our store. The original goal was to be able to quarantine all new arrivals in a copper treated system for at least a week before being placed in our main holding tanks. While we were doing the buildout, we treated the main system with copper to make sure we were starting fresh. It is a 350 gallon system consisting of seven 25 gallon tanks and a 55. No substrate, a trickle filter, and a 400 watt UV filter.

We have the water running in it and are ready for fish, but I had a few questions hopefully some here could help with. Is there a good comprehensive list somewhere of copper sensitive fish? Is it necessary to quarantine all fish, such as gobies, blennies, etc? We plan on using cupramine, is is okay to run it at the reccomended level, or would it be better to run a therapuetic level a little lower. Any other suggestions, or things I should be aware of?


Thanks! :mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think you should contact Bob, maybe Anthony (via the WWM crew), and definitely the folks at SDC. They have one of the best hospital/quarantine systems I've seen to date. I do not know that they use copper prophylactically.

I can tell you that, in my experiences, coppering frogfishes and some of their relatives ends in disaster. Believe it or not, in many situations (and I believe is protocol at Waikiki Aquarium) Formalin is preferred.

 

[MaryHM]

Eels, Flame Angels, and Lionfish quickly come to mind.

 

[Anonymous]

Is it recommended to quarantine copper sensitive fish? and if so, what is the best way to do it?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Has anyone used formalin on a continual basis ? Does the white hazy water that results in formalin use 24 hours later, subside after a few doses? I always chicken out and do a large water change to get rid of the cloady water .

 

[Anonymous]

i'm not aware of any fish that should be severely affected by a .14-.18 level of Cu exposure for a weeks time

 

[Anonymous]

Has anyone used formalin on a continual basis ? Does the white hazy water that results in formalin use 24 hours later, subside after a few doses? I always chicken out and do a large water change to get rid of the cloady water .

i've never had water turn 'hazy' when treating w/formalin, and i've used it fairly extensively in both sw, and fw systems

formalin should break down completely in less than 6 hrs, if exposed to the typical amount of circulation/lighting of a store system-it's relatively unstable

 

[Kalkbreath]

Thats strange....... every single time I use it it clowds the system about twenty four hour later. Sometimes 36 hours after . I use 100 mil per five hundred gallons . I purchase it from local wholesaler Sun PETs. They fill my container out of a 55 gallon drum? I do not aerate the formalin prior to dosing. ?

 

[Anonymous]

Thats strange....... every single time I use it it clowds the system about twenty four hour later. Sometimes 36 hours after . I use 100 mil per five hundred gallons . I purchase it from local wholesaler Sun PETs. They fill my container out of a 55 gallon drum? I do not aerate the formalin prior to dosing. ?

who ever told you to aerate before dosing?

you are aware that formalin is a regulated substance? i'm pretty sure it's illegal for someone else to supply you that way-you may want to check w/the county/state you're in-where i worked we had to have a permit for the stuff, and had to keep it under lock and key




mebbe it's possible your systems are overcrowded w/bacterial, or other growth, and the resulting die-off from the formalin exposure is clouding your water?

it's also possible that the formalin you're using is old stock, and beginning to break down? most formalin is shipped w/a 'clarity' warning about the product itself-if cloudy, iirc, it indicates a major change in the structure of the formalin, and is recommended for non-usage at that point

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, so in my research I have come up with Copper, Nitrofurazone, and Formalin.

If you had to pick one what would it be?

I ammost familiar with copper. What's the pros and cons of the other two?

 

[dizzy]

Glenn,
I agree with Fenner in The Conscience Marine Aquarist that formalin is best used as a short term dip or bath. I think it can kill the biological filter. Nitrofurazone is an antibiotic that might be best used to fight bacterial infections that the parasites can cause by opening sores on the fish. I haven't seen where it was recommended for saltwater ich. Copper is probably the quickest most effective way of ridding fish of protozoan parasites. I agree with vitz that most fish can take some copper and IME this includes frogfish, eels, and definitely lions. The devils in the dosing. I have a very hard time reading the copper test kits.

To be effective I think you need to quarantine your fish for at least two weeks not one. How do you plan on killing the parasites out of your selling system if they get past quarantine? I have noticed that angelfish left in copper for more than two weeks often develop cloudy eyes. I don't think it's eye flukes either.
Mitch

PS
Jim Kostich wrote a pretty good article on copper treatemnt which can be found here: www.bestfish.com/copper.html Many others have wrritten on the subject as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Glenn I'm confused. You said you did your homework, but you still need the pros and cons of the three? Ditto to what Mitch said about formalin, Nitro and Copper. They are all birds of a different nest.

Why guess at this, go to www.fishyfarmacy.com and ask them, they've been treating fish since the invention of the wheel.

 

[Anonymous]

Every froggie I've ever seen even look at copper croaked, and with a fully outfitted proper laboratory on premises, I doubt dosing was the issue (LBAOP - need to add the qualifier that the only time I've ever seen frogfishes dosed with copper was at LBAOP).

In my experience, all these substances will harm nitrifying bacteria, and the result is a need for copious water changes. Not a problem if you're next to the ocean with those kick ass filters, but what if you're not? Then again, I've never worked for anyone who coppered prophylactically, however, the first (and most experienced) old-timer I worked for did treat his freshies with different antibiotics prophylactically (depending on type of fish and origin - he brought in a lot of Taiwanese and Hong Kong animals).

 

[Anonymous]

Glenn I'm confused. You said you did your homework, but you still need the pros and cons of the three?

We were set to use copper, but I wanted to make sure I understood how the other two worked. I didn't think nitrofurazone would do much for Ich, which is primarily what we are concerend with, and formalin seemed to risky and hard to deal with. Just didn't want to rule anything out too soon though. Thanks for the links I will check them out.

To be effective I think you need to quarantine your fish for at least two weeks not one. How do you plan on killing the parasites out of your selling system if they get past quarantine? I have noticed that angelfish left in copper for more than two weeks often develop cloudy eyes. I don't think it's eye flukes either

We can still dose copper in the main system if we need to. And we have experienced the same thing with the angel's eyes.

 

[ERI]

Rover,

We have maybe the largest quarantine systems in the industry - about 20,000 gallons consisting of 3 distinct, computer controlled systems complete with RK2 protein skimmers and fluid bed biofilters. With these systems we can acclimate and quarantine each and every fish we receive. Please drop me an email and I will be glad to give you whatever help I can re. our acclimation and treatment procedures.

Regards,

Rob

ERI International

 

[Anonymous]

rob

how do you think fluidized bed filters compare to wet/dry type filters(or biowheels) ?

 

[dizzy]

Rover,

We have maybe the largest quarantine systems in the industry - about 20,000 gallons consisting of 3 distinct, computer controlled systems complete with RK2 protein skimmers and fluid bed biofilters. With these systems we can acclimate and quarantine each and every fish we receive. Please drop me an email and I will be glad to give you whatever help I can re. our acclimation and treatment procedures.

Regards,

Rob

ERI International

Rob,
Why don't you just share this information with the group? If you have a system that works well I'm sure we would all love to hear about it. Just like Mercedes said about not enforcing their patent on the energy absorbing car body: "Some things are just too important not to share".

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't seen those industrial-sized fluidized filters in AGES. One problem that I didn't like about using them was, because they are pressurized (at least every one I've ever seen was), when one of 'em blew. Tiny glass beads all OVER the fishroom floor! WOOPS!

 

[Anonymous]

I haven't seen those industrial-sized fluidized filters in AGES. One problem that I didn't like about using them was because they are pressurized (at least every one I've ever seen was), was when one of 'em blew. Tiny glass beads all OVER the fishroom floor! WOOPS!

could you elaborate on that? i've never seen a 'pressurized' fluidized bed filter, and was wondering how, or why, it could/would be pressurized.

(a fluidized bed is open at both ends-the amount of pressure, that may result from restricting the outflow to calibrate the level/height of the media, should not be enough to even come close to exploding 1/4-1/2" pvc or acrylic, unless it's plumbed into the line in an unusual fashion, like directly off the main pump line in a very large system, and severely throttled down- most designs have the fluidized bed running off of it's own 'sub feed' from the main return lines, like a split off 'loop', ime)

 

[Anonymous]

Well, what we had was constructed very much like a gigantic canister filter (around 7' tall, as I remember), inlet at the bottom, outlet near the top, sealed (with a lid/access point on top) on both ends. As I said, it's been ages since I've seen them (about ten years).

One of my big jobs at this particular facility was to clean old PVC for reuse. It was often brittle, and had a large amount of mouse/rat droppings and urine in and around it (this was around '94 - think HANTA virus). The substance I had been instructed to use to clean it was muriatic acid.