AMDA Board of directors speak out

[clarionreef]

Wayne,
Cop out as in run and hide from the issue?
Who are you talking to?
I'm way too extreme others are saying! Check out the AMDA thread in general fishkeeping!
Look. We got 1,000 to the left of us...50 in the middle listening and you so far off the other side that we can't hear you. Would you please help enlist some more troops and help beef up support? This will validate your involvement and make you a player instead of a talk and poster.
Show me how to rally aquarists Wayne. I'm all ears.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I would also like to state that my involvement with the people in AMDA has allowed me to understand the depth of the problem in regards to catch procedures, shipping, and fish health from the fishermen to us. It is an understanding that has taken me to a different level of understanding of the breadth of the problem that is upon us. Cheap fish are usually caught with cyanide. The aquarium industry is not the main problem in regards to the destruction of the reefs, but we are involved and we could be more effective in our objections to the catch and shipping procedures. and that is what we are about. So to AMDA I thank them for the education. I sure haven’t gotten that information from the e-tailers. Buy and sell is the mantra. There is more to our business than that when it comes to the environment and the ethical treatment of the animals from the sea. In the past some of our members only wanted to deal with domestic issues and not involve ourselves with the sources of our livestock. If we don’t who represents us? We can no longer put our head in the sand. Nothing will get done unless we stop buying the fish that are caught improperly with cyanide and shipped like these animals are cord wood.

Well put Burton.

Steve, nothing is easy but you can't cop out.

Wayne

what is the extent of your involvement with people in amda, if you don't mind me asking?

have you worked for, or with anyone in the amda? and for how long?

 

[clarionreef]

Hey,
Don't judge us by our 'fruits'. :lol:
Steve

 

[naesco]

Wayne,
Cop out as in run and hide from the issue?
Who are you talking to?
I'm way too extreme others are saying! Check out the AMDA thread in general fishkeeping!
Look. We got 1,000 to the left of us...50 in the middle listening and you so far off the other side that we can't hear you. Would you please help enlist some more troops and help beef up support? This will validate your involvement and make you a player instead of a talk and poster.
Show me how to rally aquarists Wayne. I'm all ears.
Steve

Yes Steve part of the plan was educate hobbyists.
I conservatively (no dramatic posting or arguments) posted on reefcentral.
I educated hobbyists about cyanide.
I cautioned them about buying Philippine fish where the use of cyanide is rampant.

I never once raised REEFORM, its goals or any 'radical' comment. I just simply posted sincerely.

Well guess what. Other posters started posting warnings and reefers started commenting.

Without any warning or any reason I was asked to resign from private elite club on reefcentral. When I asked for a reason or an example of a post which they considered improper I was not given any. I refused to resign and was booted off of reefcentral.

So don't say I am a talker and a poster because Steve I tried.

The only way to defeat the cyanide cartel is stop their fraud and threaten to indict the cartel. Steve when the President of XXXCompany is charged under the Lacey Act or for fraud then and only then will the cyanide cartel change and training and the CDT will be the order of the day.

Were I an American or even an American resident I swear to you I would walk up to the courthouse tomorrow with a list of names and have any indictment laid against each and every one of those fucken bastards.

 

[clarionreef]

Wow,
The reefcentral censorship is odd...especially considering all the ones they don't censor.
We are on and on about e-tailing and they are run by e-tailers!
Still. The censorship of you as a poster is wrong I think.
I'd like to know how they explain it.

So...you think a suit would actually work?
You'd have to be an American you say?
Start by suing Canadian importers of cyanide fish and blaze a trail!
Steve

 

[naesco]

Wow,
The reefcentral censorship is odd...especially considering all the ones they don't censor.
We are on and on about e-tailing and they are run by e-tailers!
Still. The censorship of you as a poster is wrong I think.
I'd like to know how they explain it.

So...you think a suit would actually work?
You'd have to be an American you say?
Start by suing Canadian importers of cyanide fish and blaze a trail!
Steve

I would lay what we call an 'information' which is the first step in a criminal charge but we do not have a Lacey Act or the equivalent in Canada otherwise I would do it in a flash.

Here is how I can help you (AMDA) I think.

1. I can arrange for a battery of attorneys who will help the prosecutors prepare the evidence for the case.
2. I can arrange for them to do it for free. (Think about the worst cyanide offender and what it would cost him to hire a defense attorney for a trial that would take several weeks).
3. I can arrange for CDT to be done on a random basis against several of the offenders so that there would be sufficient evidence against them in a Court of Law.
4. You know we have the witnesses.
5. You know we have the expert witnesses.

My concern is timing. I think you need a liberal (read Democrat President) which will be the clue to the bureaucrats to give the case the priority it deserves but I could be wrong.
Wayne

 

[MaryHM]

Wayne,

Your idea of using the Lacey Act for prosecution is not a new one. Howard Latin was interested in doing the same exact thing (he's a US environmental lawyer). From my understanding, he had to abandon the idea because here the the US you actually have to be able to prove your case to win. And since there is no stateside CDT then there is no proof.

3. I can arrange for CDT to be done on a random basis against several of the offenders so that there would be sufficient evidence against them in a Court of Law.

Comments like this are what cause me to continually lose respect for anything you have to say. Really, Wayne? You can arrange for a CDT to be done and then have those results hold up as a violation of the Lacey Act?? Please share how you can do this.

 

[naesco]

Wayne,

Your idea of using the Lacey Act for prosecution is not a new one. Howard Latin was interested in doing the same exact thing (he's a US environmental lawyer). From my understanding, he had to abandon the idea because here the the US you actually have to be able to prove your case to win. And since there is no stateside CDT then there is no proof.

3. I can arrange for CDT to be done on a random basis against several of the offenders so that there would be sufficient evidence against them in a Court of Law.

Comments like this are what cause me to continually lose respect for anything you have to say. Really, Wayne? You can arrange for a CDT to be done and then have those results hold up as a violation of the Lacey Act?? Please share how you can do this.

Here you go again Mary. Are you a grammar teacher or a reeformer?
I said that I THINK I can arrange to have secret cyanide detection testing done.
Those tests, if accepted by the Court would be sufficent evidence in my opinion to gain a conviction. One postitive CDT would not be but several positive tests would IMO.
Whose side are you on anyways Mary?
Are you prepared to point the finger at the cyanide cartel members?
Are you willingly prepared to give evidence against them or will you have to be forced to give evidence?
Would you participate with AMDA in meeting with the cartel and tellling them that they have say four months to clean up their act or the jig is up?

 

[Anonymous]

Wow,
The reefcentral censorship is odd...especially considering all the ones they don't censor.
We are on and on about e-tailing and they are run by e-tailers!
Still. The censorship of you as a poster is wrong I think.
I'd like to know how they explain it.

So...you think a suit would actually work?
You'd have to be an American you say?
Start by suing Canadian importers of cyanide fish and blaze a trail!
Steve

I would lay what we call an 'information' which is the first step in a criminal charge but we do not have a Lacey Act or the equivalent in Canada otherwise I would do it in a flash.

Here is how I can help you (AMDA) I think.

1. I can arrange for a battery of attorneys who will help the prosecutors prepare the evidence for the case.
2. I can arrange for them to do it for free. (Think about the worst cyanide offender and what it would cost him to hire a defense attorney for a trial that would take several weeks).
3. I can arrange for CDT to be done on a random basis against several of the offenders so that there would be sufficient evidence against them in a Court of Law.4. You know we have the witnesses.
5. You know we have the expert witnesses.

My concern is timing. I think you need a liberal (read Democrat President) which will be the clue to the bureaucrats to give the case the priority it deserves but I could be wrong.
Wayne

unless you can shed some light on HOW you can do this, my opinion is that you can't

 

[Anonymous]

I said that I THINK I can arrange to have secret cyanide detection testing done

.


no, you didn't

 

[Anonymous]

2. I can arrange for them to do it for free. (Think about the worst cyanide offender and what it would cost him to hire a defense attorney for a trial that would take several weeks).

you have millions of dollars available as disposable income??!! 8O

howzabout you donate $500 to the net fund?

 

[naesco]

I said that I THINK I can arrange to have secret cyanide detection testing done

.


no, you didn't

"Here is how I can help you (AMDA) I think"

Yes I did!

 

[Anonymous]

oh, ok


:roll:

 

[naesco]

2. I can arrange for them to do it for free. (Think about the worst cyanide offender and what it would cost him to hire a defense attorney for a trial that would take several weeks).

you have millions of dollars available as disposable income??!! 8O

howzabout you donate $500 to the net fund?

I can tell you the cyanide cartel will have to spend several million in attorneys fees defending themselves.
Once convicted there is no doubt in my mind that there would be little compassion for those who, with their Philippine cartel members, destroy the reefs and all the critters that dwell therein. The judge will nail them when he finds out what they have done.
The purpose of the Lacey Act is to punish Americans who conspire with national who choose to break the law.

In addition there business interests would be finished.

Pretty big incentive to stop using cyanide eh? Just think of the effect of merely laying the first information will have on the rest of the scum.

 

[naesco]

oh, ok


:roll:

The reason I posted I think is I cannot make the committment yet.
But I think you will agree that I will leave no stone unturned.
What say you Vitz.
Dont you think the time has come to end this cyanide business?

 

[MaryHM]

Wayne, you need to learn how to use the language so people don't take you the wrong way. Hey, maybe that's your whole problem! (But I doubt it.)

When you say "Here's how I can help you (AMDA) I think." You are implying that you think the following ideas will be helpful to AMDA. Not that you THINK you MIGHT be able to accomplish the following ideas. If people would speak more clearly around here, it sure would help.

Now, to clearly answer some of your questions:

Are you a grammar teacher or a reeformer?

Neither.

Whose side are you on anyways Mary?

My own.

Are you prepared to point the finger at the cyanide cartel members?

Uh, been there done that did no good. Not interested in ever doing it again unless I am sure of a positive outcome.

Are you willingly prepared to give evidence against them or will you have to be forced to give evidence?

I don't have any evidence that would hold up in a US court of law. Neither do you. If I did, I would have presented it a long time ago.

Would you participate with AMDA in meeting with the cartel and tellling them that they have say four months to clean up their act or the jig is up?

Not no, but HELL NO. I don't care to have anything to do with AMDA again as long as certain board members remain in place (no offense to Steve- he knows of what I speak). Anyway, they wouldn't have me as a member even if I was willing. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Well now that about covers the cyanide wet dream now doesn't it? "Theres no cyanide fish now, we stopped that" {as Lolita Ty instructed kalk to preform the Jedi mind trick ;0 }

 

[Anonymous]

Well, I tried to split the thread, but the split part seems to have vanished. Oh well, I'm sure it will all be rehashed at some point.

 

[ERI]

Vitz,

Mi'eifo ata mekabel et kol ha garinim ha'ele?

 

[Anonymous]

meh ha shouk, yah tembel