Do you still get excited?

[clarionreef]

Lee,
Not Oklahoma or Bulgaria but nearly anywhere else!
Try this. Try and pitch it my product as the thing to do and see how hard it is to be a rep for netcaught only fish!
Hardest job in the world.
The secret to selling them is to not tell anyone they're netcaught.
Price, specials and variety is all that is listened to seriously. Seriously.
In all sincerity, the task of transforming the market without understanding it sets one up for great frustration...[ see Marys posts of late :lol:]
I wish to be wrong about this...If I was, I'd be in a position to..how do you say...."cash in" .
I knew as soon as MAC certified cyanide dealers that my mothers prophecy was coming true.
'When I wrote the first photo acticles exposing the cyanide trade in 92...and the training articles in 93...my mom said it would never work.
'Why not ?' I asked.
'Because she said..."If you don't train the divers well, this will all be forgotten. If you do train them well, it will be taken over by people with more money".
How did she know this in 1984?
She had a hard life and knew the reward for sincerity and ernestness could be brutal...and that any idea good enough would be stolen.
There is a twist to the story though...
Its been like the stealing of an airplane. Yes, the plane was stolen alright...but the thieves just can't seem to fly it! 5 differnt groups have taken off and crashed this thing and here it is 2004 and the secret key to conversions is still unavailable.
Divers are easy to train. We are not.
Steve

 

[JennM]

Yes, I love "fish day"... it's like Christmas. Even the same old tired specimens -- I know what I'm getting because I pick my own orders, but I love to open the boxes and see what everything looks like. I especially like corals - a flame angel is a flame angel but no two hammer corals are identical.

I get as much of a thrill out of anyone coming into the shop and having wonder in their eyes, as I do out of making a huge sale. Of course the huge sales keep the doors open for those who just come in to marvel at it all... but for me there's a lot of satisfaction in seeing somebody's eyes open wide, or tell me about their clownfish spawning, or their mushrooms spreading or their bubble anemone splitting... or solving their hair algae problem...

There are days when some customers suck the life right out of me... but you get that in any line of work, where the daily grind tends to grate the nerves more than usual -- but as with anything else you have to take the good with the bad.

Yes, it used to be a playtime, now it's a job... but it's a job I love, and I can't see myself doing anything else.

Doesn't mean I don't think I'm overdue for a vacation though

Jenn

 

[PeterIMA]

Steve, Could you edit your post from exposing the cyanide trade in 92 and net-training in 93 to exposing in....82 and training in....83? It is sad to think that we have been trying to promote positive reform of the MO trade and hobby for over 20 years, and they still don't care.

Peter

 

[naesco]

Steve, Could you edit your post from exposing the cyanide trade in 92 and net-training in 93 to exposing in....82 and training in....83? It is sad to think that we have been trying to promote positive reform of the MO trade and hobby for over 20 years, and they still don't care.


And Dr. Rubec , that should be telling us something.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

This is the real fact. The industry doesn't care. It is time to move forward. What is more important the coral reefs or a bunch of money makers that do not care?

 

[MaryHM]

OOO OOO!!! I'll play. I'll take "a bunch of money makers that do not care" for $1000, Jaime.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

It has been demonstrated that the indutry as a whole is NOT following the" few" that do want to do it right. You want to do it right but you have not followers. What is more important your business or the coral reefs?

 

[naesco]

Jaime
Most true reformers are at the point of abandoning the idea that industry will make the necessary changes to avoid the full effects of BILL 4928

There lack of action does not make any sense at all considering the effect of BILL 4928 on their business.

I think they are praying for the re-election of the ultra right Republicans to save their butts.
Sad, eh. They are more interested in playing politics with someone else's reef then getting down to making the necessary changes to preserve the reefs and their industry.

 

[MaryHM]

What is more important your business or the coral reefs?

My business. If I thought that ending the MO trade would save the reefs, my answer might be different. But we both know it wouldn't. You could ban this trade tomorrow and the reefs would still be in decline at the same rate, if not even higher. My hope and prayer is that this industry will be able to end cyanide use. Will it happen? I don't know. Will this bill end it? No. It doesn't address the food fish trade at all. What's a US legislator going to do...introduce a bill that bans Asia from dealing in the live food fish trade? So for people who can't see beyond the end of their nose, this bill is a savior. For anyone who can see the big picture, they can see this bill for what it's worth. A piece of feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chances of survival by one bit.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Like I have said before.......Can some one please tell me why Peter or Jamie thinks the problem has not improved? Only half as many fish are being collected in PI .....And the demand for fish is decreasing still. There is every reason to believe that Cyanide use is at an all time low. Most of the fish in demand in 2004 are not fish that are difficult to collect , so there is little reason to even use cyanide. What we have Today is a group of 1993 reeformers still stuck in last decades mentality. There may have been an industry to reeform last decade....But this current industry does not !there is no DOA DAA problem ........the Fish supply shows no signs of cyanide {unlike 1995] and the demand for fish species has dwindled down to very few species ... The only real issue to stand on is the notion that we may be collecting too manyindividuals of one species in too small a collection zone. {ie unsustainability] I find it odd that the reeformers have never once established the current facts about our industry?

 

[dizzy]

Yes, I love "fish day"... it's like Christmas. Even the same old tired specimens -- I know what I'm getting because I pick my own orders, but I love to open the boxes and see what everything looks like. I especially like corals - a flame angel is a flame angel but no two hammer corals are identical.

I get as much of a thrill out of anyone coming into the shop and having wonder in their eyes, as I do out of making a huge sale. Of course the huge sales keep the doors open for those who just come in to marvel at it all... but for me there's a lot of satisfaction in seeing somebody's eyes open wide, or tell me about their clownfish spawning, or their mushrooms spreading or their bubble anemone splitting... or solving their hair algae problem...

There are days when some customers suck the life right out of me... but you get that in any line of work, where the daily grind tends to grate the nerves more than usual -- but as with anything else you have to take the good with the bad.

Yes, it used to be a playtime, now it's a job... but it's a job I love, and I can't see myself doing anything else.

Doesn't mean I don't think I'm overdue for a vacation though

Jenn

Jenn,
Put this post in a time capsule for twenty years. Then open it and come back and tell us if you still feel the same way.
Mitch

 

[naesco]

Mary posted
""Will this bill end it? No. It doesn't address the food fish trade at all""

We are not the food fishery so stop trying to blame us for the damage they have done. Do something about the damage you have done.

Mary posted
"So for people who can't see beyond the end of their nose, this bill is a savior. For anyone who can see the big picture, they can see this bill for what it's worth. A piece of feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chances of survival by one bit.""

Mary you can make a difference

"Healthy coral reefs can produce as much as 37 t/km2/yr while degraded reefs produce less than 5/t/km2/yr "(Alcala and Russ (1990)

Here is what your industryis responsible for according to (McAllister 1988)
"an estimate of 1000 aquarium fish collectors (each using 75 kg of sodium cyanide per year) used a total of 75,000kg of sodium cyanide per year.

Don't tell me or anyone else that BILL4928 is feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chance of survival by one bit.
That is sheer nonsense.

And before you go into your Miss prove it, the experts are wrong, the study is dated act let me suggest to you that whether it is 500 collectors or 25,000kg of cyanide it is irrelavent.

The use of this poison on the worlds reefs must stop now. Whether you are an environmentalist a hobbyist and idustry type is irrelavent

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Wayne,

The ones in this industry that could make a difference DO not participate in this or other forum related to conservation or sustainable use of coral reefs, they are busy doing something else as getting more and more shipments of MO from places as the Ph. or In.

Kalk, the " last decades mentality' people are the ones that worked hard without the support of the industry finding out responses to problems that same industry created. If you see that things have improved is because of the work of those "last decade" mentality people. Where were you last decade?

 

[Jaime Baquero]

What is more important your business or the coral reefs?

My business. If I thought that ending the MO trade would save the reefs, my answer might be different. But we both know it wouldn't. You could ban this trade tomorrow and the reefs would still be in decline at the same rate, if not even higher. My hope and prayer is that this industry will be able to end cyanide use. Will it happen? I don't know. Will this bill end it? No. It doesn't address the food fish trade at all. What's a US legislator going to do...introduce a bill that bans Asia from dealing in the live food fish trade? So for people who can't see beyond the end of their nose, this bill is a savior. For anyone who can see the big picture, they can see this bill for what it's worth. A piece of feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chances of survival by one bit.

This bill will help to tackle the problem. The industry has not respond to calls from different groups trying to help out during the last 16 or more years. The alternative the industry has is to face the reality and to learn the hard way.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

The industry has not responded.........

 

[naesco]

Jaime we need to get "the last decades people," environmentalists, government, organizations like CIDA, USAID, MAC and others together, united in a common goal. A cyanide free industry and hobby.

There is a role for every reformist to play in this new beginning. Trainers, biologists, scientists, experts in cyanide, those that have expertise in dealing with the coastal communities of both the Philippines and Indonesia.
Whether you are Canadian, American, Philipino or Indonesian, eveyone has a chance in being an integral part of the necessary changes.

To the lost souls who have given up or given in and can't stand to see others move towards this goal, stand aside and give others room to be sucessful, please.

Wayne

 

[dizzy]

Jaime we need to get "the last decades people," environmentalists, government, organizations like CIDA, USAID, MAC and others together, united in a common goal. A cyanide free industry and hobby.

There is a role for every reformist to play in this new beginning. Trainers, biologists, scientists, experts in cyanide, those that have expertise in dealing with the coastal communities of both the Philippines and Indonesia.
Whether you are Canadian, American, Philipino or Indonesian, eveyone has a chance in being an integral part of the necessary changes.

To the lost souls who have given up or given in and can't stand to see others move towards this goal, stand aside and give others room to be sucessful, please.

Wayne

Take it and run with it Wayne. Good luck and God bless.
Mitch

 

[MaryHM]

Don't tell me or anyone else that BILL4928 is feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chance of survival by one bit.

Bill 4928 is feel good legislation that would not increase the reef's chance of survival one bit.

Fishermen, especially the village fishermen in this industry, are fishermen. Period. Take away the MO industry and they will fish for the food fish industry. It is a known fact that the food fish industry is far, far more destructive than the MO industry. THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT OK FOR THIS INDUSTRY TO USE CYANIDE, AND I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT. What I'm saying is that banning this industry will not increase the health of the reefs. Those reefs will still be fished. Those reefs will still be under countless other pressures. Do you think this bill will just turn the current reefs that are being used by MO fishermen (and also by food fish fishermen) into some pristine natural preserve, thereby giving the chances to recover and flourish? FAT CHANCE.

 

[Kalkbreath]

The industry has not responded.........

Actually the industry has responded by reducing collection by fifty percent. Even if cyanide collection is still the same ........thats a fifty percent reduction in cynaide use . Next , seventy percent of the fish imported today are fish like damsels gobies , Chromis, lion fish , gobies and blennies........fish that dont rquire cyanide to collect...... like big angels and butterfly fish do . The types of fish being collected in PI has changed. A good example is taking a look at Peters data from 1997. Back then fish like blue ribbon eels were collected quite often. Yet today, there is little interest in these type fish. YES fish like Blue tangs and blue face angels are still in demand and most likely cyanide is still being used on these ........But so few of these cyanide prone fish are being collected in PI today that one can hardly suggest that those few squirts would have much impact.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

The industry has not responded.........

Actually the industry has responded by reducing collection by fifty percent. Even if cyanide collection is still the same ........thats a fifty percent reduction in cynaide use . Next , seventy percent of the fish imported today are fish like damsels gobies , Chromis, lion fish , gobies and blennies........fish that dont rquire cyanide to collect...... like big angels and butterfly fish do . The types of fish being collected in PI has changed. A good example is taking a look at Peters data from 1997. Back then fish like blue ribbon eels were collected quite often. Yet today, there is little interest in these type fish. YES fish like Blue tangs and blue face angels are still in demand and most likely cyanide is still being used on these ........But so few of these cyanide prone fish are being collected in PI today that one can hardly suggest that those few squirts would have much impact.

The fact is that the fish DO NOT exist in grounds where once were abundant. Now collectors have to go further away to try to get those fish from different grounds. That is different to your statement that the industry is reducing collection by 50% ( where did you find that number?). Two of the reasons for this decline are overcollection and habitat deterioration/destruction.