• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

mpedersen

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Rook":3b17d66e said:
Nominations are currently taking place. Once the nominations are finished and the Election Committee verifies that the nominations are done according to the process; the Election Committee (not the BOD) will at that time contact the proposed nominees to verify if they are willing to accept the nomination.

For the record, I should note that what Rook is describing is the change in policy, where the BOD has shifted responsibilities that it initially claimed over to the Elections Committee. That happened over the weekend more or less.

Rook, that's why people are griping at the BOD. Some people may not even know that this process has been altered at this time, and there still hasn't been a member-wide emailing containing the proper (and correct) information about this process. Not everyone checks MarineBreeder.org on a daily basis, even if they're "active" members, so simply posting something in a forum doesn't meet the notification requirements in my opinion (i.e. it's typical that some members may be online only Monday-Friday, i.e. via work, and don't check in on the weekends).

Furthermore, I fear that extending this process only 3 days is NOT giving the Elections committee ample time to fix the BOD's mistakes, to notify the members again, and then to allow the members sufficient time to actually make nominations. If they BOD wants to do this election properly, they should NOT be ramming it down member's throats in haste.
 

bookfish

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Hey Rook, I appreciate the fact that you're trying to work with a bad situation and I hope (for the sake of our hobby) that MOFIB ends up a better place for your effort. But on a personal level, I feel my right to vote and my right to free speech have been taken away from me on MOFIB and I feel totally disenfranchised. I will be heading over to the Breeders Registry site and see if that community is more open and welcoming. Thx-Jim
 

Tal Sweet

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I just started a "Who Wants to be Nominated" thread to hopefully simplify the nominating process, we'll see:

Since each member only gets to nominate 1 person for the BOD positions I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread where members can post if they will accept a nomination and/or can post if they want to be nominated.

This will keep people from using their nomination for someone that isn't interested.

So, if you're interested in running for a BOD position, post here...

If you want to know if someone you want to nominate will accept the nomination, post here...

Hopefully this will simplify things for everyone.


http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 253&t=5288
 

mpedersen

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Bookfish, have you looked to see if you fit the qualifications as outlined by the BOD? I hate to use the cliche "let's not shoot the messenger" but in reality, that is exactly what Rook is here. I don't think that's what you're doing, but I do want readers to remember what Rook is, and is not, responsible for. If you fall outside the qualifications, and believe you have thus been disenfranchised, I guess you can file a complaint with Rook, but it sounds like he is powerless to do anything for you, even if he may fully agree with you. I recall you served on a committee at one point, didn't you? If so, you should be qualified. Weren't you on Marketing & Graphics?

The elections committee put out a list of eligible voters and eligible nominees.

Nominees - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 253&t=5288
Voters - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 253&t=5289

Again, check those lists, and as Rook wrote, if you have questions, you should ask, and I know they'll be good about showing you how you didn't end up on the list. Again, remember, blame where blame is due, the Election's committee didn't come up with the BS Rules and change the bylaws repeatedly and change the schedule and fail to notify members of proper email addresses - all of that Blame lies squarely on the BOD.
 

bookfish

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bookfish":jscbdkmc said:
Hey Rook, I appreciate the fact that you're trying to work with a bad situation and I hope (for the sake of our hobby) that MOFIB ends up a better place for your effort. But on a personal level, I feel my right to vote and my right to free speech have been taken away from me on MOFIB and I feel totally disenfranchised. I will be heading over to the Breeders Registry site and see if that community is more open and welcoming. Thx-Jim
I posted this on MOFIB where Rook replied (thank you for your reply) and it has been deleted.
 

bookfish

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mwp":9s2gdaqb said:
Bookfish, have you looked to see if you fit the qualifications as outlined by the BOD? I hate to use the cliche "let's not send the messenger" but in reality, that is exactly what Rook is here. I don't think that's what you're doing, but I do want readers to remember what Rook is, and is not, responsible for. If you fall outside the qualifications, and believe you have thus been disenfranchised, I guess you can file a complaint with Rook, but it sounds like he is powerless to do anything for you, even if he may fully agree with you. I recall you served on a committee at one point, didn't you? If so, you should be qualified. Weren't you on Marketing & Graphics?

The elections committee put out a list of eligible voters and eligible nominees.

Nominees - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 253&t=5288
Voters - http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/view ... 253&t=5289

Again, check those lists, and as Rook wrote, if you have questions, you should ask, and I know they'll be good about showing you how you didn't end up on the list. Again, remember, blame where blame is due, the Election's committee didn't come up with the BS Rules and change the bylaws repeatedly and change the schedule and fail to notify members of proper email addresses - all of that Blame lies squarely on the BOD.
Indeed, I appreciate the efforts of the Elections committee and thank them for their work. I recognize that they had nothing to do with what has happened up to now.
 

Rook

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Book,

If you were on a committee between June 17, 1008 and June 17, 2009; let us know. Those list are the best we could determine. Some people may have been left off by error or simply the committee not knowing all the facts and we are happy to review any request to be added.
 

bookfish

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I didn't mean to imply that I had been incorrectly left off the voting list per the new guidelines. I am, by current definition, not eligible to be a voting member. Hopefully that's clear. :D
 

bookfish

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fishtal":1pnmc6xd said:
My thread was deleted so I guess it wasn't such a good idea. Oh well, just tryin' to help. :)
And that's appreciated but I'm really done I'm afraid. No harm, no foul to me personally as i hadn't really invested too much in the site anyway. I'll prob start hanging around the RDO breeding forum more now which is a good thing imho.Thx-Jim
 

mpedersen

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Received this from Mark Vera. No "request" for confidentiality, so I'm not going to even remotely hesitate to quote it. This was in response to the public posts / email I sent to him regarding my "surprise" access to the FULL website back on Friday (see earlier in this thread...as those posts were deleted as well). It is funny that Mr. Vera claims that he is only now "looking into this". The rest of Mr. Vera's response deals with the deletion of threads, I'll pretty much let you judge for yourself ;)

Matt,

I am looking into this.

I would point out much of the blocking and censoring is because members are reporting posts. Further the mods as a whole have been given a more liberal reign by the BOD as this is their job and need more autonomy to perform it. I pleaded with you in the past to be more civil, reasonable and help move MOFIB in a positive direction. I argued your case to my counterparts and tried to be an advocate for you until you showed me you were not willing to be reasonable. What fallout is happening, more specifically with regard to your censored posts is because the BOD, Mods and many members have lost their patience.

I am imparting this to you as a matter of fact and do not wish to enter into debate with you.

Mark Vera
Aqua-Tech Co.
Manufacturers of Phyto2 Quality Phytoplankton

Book of Coral Propagation 2nd edition is here! Visit readingtrees.com to own one today!

I wonder who reported Tal's posts? Bookfish's posts? Rooks Posts?
 

Ummfish

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I wonder who reported Tal's posts? Bookfish's posts? Rooks Posts?

That's one of the things that I find annoying about this censorship issue in general and this administration in particular: There's no recourse to face--or even hear the argument of--your accuser. In an organization where a "warning"--whatever that means--can cause you to lose voting rights, is there any mechanism for a member to even know when accusations are being leveled against them? Any means to respond to accusations? In fact, all of the debate seems to occur out of the view of the member involved such that the member might never even know of an action against them. In fact, do the powers that be even have to notify the member of the "warning"? The first the member might hear about it is a year later when they go to--and are denied the ability to--vote.

I understand that this is outside of the issue at hand--voting is the first issue to take care of--but it should be addressed early in the new BOD's term, IMO. There should be a methodology--maybe a review committee--for a member to hear accusations against them and be able to respond. Also, hierarchy of appeal so members feel they have some recourse in such matters. Also, admins and mods need clear directions in their duties, something that I suspect isn't getting done now.
 

mpedersen

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It remains clear that censorship is the order of the day as well, and with a half dozen people who are all on board with it, there's nothing anyone can do to stop that. Based on Mr. Vera's comments, it appears that the two most trigger happy moderators (who are two of the board's "advisors") have been given a blank check to censor. It goes right along with Luis Magnasco's "polite request" to "refrain from politiical posting". Yup, censorship 101. The only place you'll get the whole story is here on RDO.

I post today because the Elections process has been changed again, at least this time it's a change I view as an improvement in what is still and will remain a fundamentally flawed and unfair process. It seems that the nominations period has now been extended yet again, this time, now closing at end of day Friday (Eastern Time). The election timeframe has been extended from 3 to 5 days as well.

Of course, none of this is really going to change the fact that there has yet to be proper notifications to the members. I have no doubt that there are members who received the two flawed nomination emails sent out by Mr. Vera who gave up. Since there has been no further official followup via that avenue, it's all too probable to assume that the amount of nominations will certainly be lower. Every time I turn around, it seems more and more people are officially giving up on MOFIB. I retain that sliver of hope that if the right poeple are elected, and they take decisive action to save the organization and change how it's run, it may be possible for it to bounce back from this depressing part of its history. We will all know for sure on or after July 6th.

I also need to stress that the BOD has only 1 more day to meet it's legal obligations to the state to notify the members at least 5 days prior to starting the general election. The law talks about mailed notifications - given that MOFIB doesn't have addresses for its members, that's an impossibility. But it DOES have email addresses. I believe there will be no official notification, and that MOFIB's BOD will have then broken state law, as they are the ones who control and authorize these mass communications. Regardless of the reasoning given by the BOD, I firmly believe that nothing short of mass emails to the members is required by state law. The annoucements on the website fail to meet the spirit and intent of the law in two ways. First, they are not PUBLICLY viewable, only registered members who are LOGGED IN see them. Second, they are passive manners of contact. The state's requirements suggest that proactive, direct notification to each member be made. Of course, I can quote state law and all of that but let's take this to a fundamental level of common sense and being treated right. Wouldn't you WANT notification? If you were running a free and clear election, wouldn't you take every avenue available to you to make the voters aware? No matter what angle you look at this situation, the BOD once again is failing in its duty to the members and the organization.
 
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Since one of my posts got deleted I think I will mirror what I post there here on RDO :)

Treeman":2e6fmq5y said:
enigma":2e6fmq5y said:
Most of all it's two posts. Can you really tell me that you couldn't post two questions in the last year?

Well Mark, I think that is obvious, otherwise I would have posted! I found information that I needed without asking, so, because of that I have been declared non-important. Actually there have been, what 1200 members that the board has deemed un-important! Maybe I should have asked without looking for it. That's much better isn't it? Just post to have a count.

Well, since I have no other option, I will wait for these absurd elections and see if I will take myself elsewhere.


You bring up a very good point Matt, and I for one commend you for your efforts in MO aquaculture :).

MOFIB just isn't for those that post and just because they don't post does not equate to them not helping MOFIBS mission.
If they take away any helpful info and apply it to their efforts, MOFIBS job is partially done!
The unspoken/unwritten members & non members are just as important to MOFIB mission.

In case people have lost sight of this, here it is...
MOFIB is Marine Ornamental Fish & Invertebrate Breeders,
an international group of private and commercial aquarists, aquaculture/mariculture businesses
and researchers, dedicated to increasing the production, variety, quality and availability of
captive bred marine fish and invertebrates by fostering innovation and advancement
in the art and science of marine fish breeding and marine invertebrate breeding
.


We believe by improving, growing, and centralizing
the world's Marine Breeding Community,
Saltwater Fish & Invert Breeding Information,
and Captive Bred Fish & Invertebrate Marketplace,
we foster Innovation, ultimately helping to preserve
the wild reefs that currently provide the vast majority
of life we keep in the marine / saltwater aquarium hobby.

What is in bold is where non posting members help the MOFIB mission.
 

mpedersen

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Gresh, I need to add that treeman's nomination of you was rejected as treeman is considered not eligible to nominate.

BTW Gresh, if I may, I'd like to take the full credit for writing that mission statement and laying out that vision, because you are 100% quoting my words ;)

I for one want to see an actual nomination of you, even if you would reject it. A symbolic nomination. So too, one for C-Aquafarm and if anyone wants to nominate ROOK, I'd advise it. No nominations for Wittenrich yet? If "voting" MOFIB members read this and have yet to make nominations, I suggest these all as worthy candidates. Also, again, be sure to publicly nominate - the board has made clear that they want to keep emailed nominations private, but in doing so they are also not annoucing that a nomination was submitted for someone either....so Gresham could have 10 nominations via email and we wouldn't know about it.

I've been perusing the state law a little more, and surprise surprise, I stumbled upon this gem:

From: http://law.justia.com/illinois/codes/ch ... 64818.html

(805 ILCS 105/108.25) (from Ch. 32, par. 108.25)
Sec. 108.25. Notice of directors' meetings. Meetings of the board of directors shall be held upon such notice as the bylaws may prescribe. Attendance of a director at any meeting shall constitute a waiver of notice of such meeting except where a director attends a meeting for the express purpose of objecting to the transaction of any business because the meeting is not lawfully called or convened. Unless provided otherwise in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws, neither the business to be transacted at, nor the purpose of, any regular or special meeting of the board of directors need be specified in the notice or waiver of notice of such meeting, except that no special meeting of directors may remove a director under Section 108.35(b) of this Act unless written notice of the proposed removal is delivered to all directors at least twenty days prior to such meeting.
(Source: P.A. 84‑1423.)

So, for the record, that is what makes the "first official meeting" that Luis Magansco and John Lauth claim to have had (while I was away, on vacation, without a computer) where they "voted me out" fundamentally illegal. Of course, this is not the first time these BOD members have broken state law, but hey, I figured since I came across this part, I might as well prove that I'm not a ranting raving lunatic when I say "what they've done is ILLEGAL".


Important to note - 10% of votes for Quorum


From: http://law.justia.com/illinois/codes/ch ... 64807.html

(805 ILCS 105/107.60) (from Ch. 32, par. 107.60)
Sec. 107.60. Quorum of members entitled to vote. Unless otherwise provided by the articles of incorporation or the bylaws, members holding one‑tenth of the votes entitled to be cast on a matter, represented in person or by proxy, shall constitute a quorum for consideration of such matter at a meeting of members. If a quorum is present, the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes present and voted, either in person or by proxy, shall be the act of the members, unless the vote of a greater number or voting by classes is required by this Act, the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. The articles of incorporation or bylaws may require any number or percent greater or smaller than one‑tenth up to and including a requirement of unanimity to constitute a quorum.

I haven't done the numbers yet, but I remember the list of eligible voters supposedly being around 380 in the minutes. Which means that at least 38 "ballots" must be cast in order for this election to be binding. As noted, articles of incorporation / bylaws can change that level, but MOFIB's bylaws do not, so 10% of the "Voting Group" is required. I still maintian that all registered members are supposed to constitute the voting class, so it puts the number closer to 160 at this time.

Regarding this "5 day notice" I cite above. It's actually really clear. The election process constitutes what would be a special meeting given that MOFIB is an interntional ONLINE group, and given that MEETINGS are perfectly legally held ONLINE (one of the things the current president, Mr. Vera, believes is false, yet even the other two board members believed this to be true until it served their purposes to change that viewpoint). Given that this is most certainly a special meeting, and given that there is a definitely start and end to the meeting, the legal requirements for notification of that meeting are at least 5 days.

From: http://law.justia.com/illinois/codes/ch ... 64807.html

Sec. 107.15. Notice of members' meetings. Written notice stating the place, day, and hour of the meeting and, in the case of a special meeting, the purpose or purposes for which the meeting is called, shall be delivered not less than 5 nor more than 60 days before the date of the meeting, or in the case of a removal of one or more directors, a merger, consolidation, dissolution or sale, lease or exchange of assets not less than 20 nor more than 60 days before the date of the meeting, by or at the direction of the president, or the secretary, or the officer or persons calling the meeting, to each member of record entitled to vote at such meeting.

I want to point the key words here - "Written notice" and "DELIVERED". Not "posted". "Delivered". IF anyone is unclear, let me put it this way. When my local chinese restaurant needs to bring me food via "delivery", they come to my door and hand it to me. The do not leave it sitting on the counter at their shop for me to stumble across.

And I put this out there to simply note now the 20 day notice for removal of the sitting board as well, except that in this case, the members are NOT ENTITLED TO VOTE to remove the board member, so it will be done in a regular board meeting, which basically means that if any one of the elected board members plans on moving to remove a currently sitting board member, give the board 20 days written notice to cover your butts and you can remove them whether they show up or not. Otherwise, you can't remove them probably unless there's some other legal wrangling.

I can certainly keep digging, but I hope the point is getting across.

Of course, there is one other point to consider, and perhaps I've alluded to it if not said it here before. 99.9% of the members really don't care about all these legalities under normal circumstances. Why? Because a lot of staying in compliance with the state law boils down to COMMON SENSE and treating people fairly. When a board of directors is acting in the best interests of the corporation and it's members, no one cares if the law wasn't followed to the letter, because they won't have a feeling of being wronged in the first place. There's a fair amount of trust engendered, people are happy, life is good, and the organization flourishes.

It is when the leadership of the organization doesn't treat it's members fairly, do we start to learn that this treatment happens to also basically be illegal. I shouldn't have to go quoting state law in an effort to put pressure on the board to meet a common sense obligation that you have to email the members with the correct email address for the nominations, let alone you have to give them AMPLE notice that an election is occurring and how they will vote. I hate to say it, but given the current timelines, I don't know how the Elections Committee can do what it needs to do in the time allotted...I almost feel like they might still be waiting for nominees to respond to their nominations with a yes or no and the election itself will be halfway over.

I finally should note that I myself was nominated to run for the BOD more than 24 hours ago. I have yet to receive official communication of that nomination. I am not saying that to pressure the Elections Committee. I am saying that to illustrate the fact that things are going to take longer than anticipated, and I see no buffer in the timeline for things to work out right. There's going to be little time afforded to nominees to make their decisions, as any non-public nominees at this point don't know they've been nominated.

I mean, my understanding is that someone needs to manually end the poll at the end of the 4th of July based on what I read of the CVIS software - who's gonna be online at midnight, July 5 (the 4th is a national holiday here in the US)? IDK, but what I do know is that the BOD runs the show, the BOD is the one who can change the timeline, so it's the BOD's responsibility and thus, the BOD's failure.
 

mpedersen

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Sorry to Double Post, but Gresh, your post is online, and I followed up yours with one that I KNOW will be removed, not because it breaks the T&C directly, but mostly because the BOD cannot even handle the criticism ;)
-----

Gresh, I can distill.

MOFIB founded as: Community + Information + Marketplace = Innovation

MOFIB currently being treated as: Information + Marketplace - Community = BOD Playground

-----

FWIW,

Matt
 
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I am still waiting on my notification. I will pursue the matter with the state if nothing is sent by Friday.
 

mpedersen

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Snailman":13lvypb3 said:
I am still waiting on my notification. I will pursue the matter with the state if nothing is sent by Friday.

It is probably safe to say that you will not be getting one if you do not fit into the BOD's definition of a voting member. If the bylaws as revised were done legally, they'd probably be OK within the law to only notify voting members (they will point to their earlier emails as notifications, but sadly they did not include any of the legally required information like schedules, dates, times, weblinks, and in fact only included incorrect email addresses for nominations). Of course, I maintain that the bylaws were never revised in a legal fashion, so I maintain that in my mind, every member is entitled to a vote and therefore notification.

Of course, it doesn't stop there...the state COULD come back to say that no, in fact, the website post in private forums is sufficient. I frankly don't know. Judging by the actions of the BOD, it is clear they feel they've made sufficient notification to the members (of course, it seems that the fewer MOFIB members who know about these elections, the better in their mind).

Snailman, the one worry, and I'll repeat this, is that if the State gets involved, and the State believes the BOD has sufficiently screwed the pooch, the most likely course of events is A) involuntary dissolution of the organization, B) seizure of the monetary assets (which suchs for donors like MILES and Reed), and C) the website is of no value to the state, so probably it just falls to the people who control it now (aka. the existing BOD and ADMINS). So, my concern here is that bringing this to the State, I don't *think* there can be any benefit to the members...all you really do is take away member donations, and give the website to the individuals you are trying to boot out. Then, what you're left with, is the same leadership, without ANY legal right to a say in the organization. If that happened, then really, MOFIB would've been stolen from the members.

Of course, I could be totally wrong here, but this concern and likely outcome is sufficient for me to still believe, as despicable as it is, that the election process, however flawed. and however many members are disenfranchised, might still be the better option for the members, given the alternative. I'm just looking at what makes the least work for the State, as that's likely the route they'd take if they got involved. Granted, they might not even care enough to get involved. But I really don't see how things could possibly get any worse...if the members "lose" in this election, we're now worse off than we are now and we can all move on to our respective plan B's.

So, given that we now have an elections committee largely made up of honorable people, you can at least trust that they will stick to the rules they are given. That does server to reduce the ability of the BOD to influence the election, which is why, instead, they've clamped down on eligibility rules and censorship. I still believe that the BOD / Admins have plenty of more tricks up their sleeves...

I will therefore also put out there that there are other legal ways that the MEMBERS THEMSELVES can take over MOFIB and kick out the BOD. It would take an incredible amount of organization and a strong leader to do so. I've always felt that if a strong leader out there in the members came forward and took the initiative to turn things around, it'd be a good thing. But I don't know where to start and I can't be that leader.
 

treeman

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Well as I thought, they deleted my post. Here it is for the record and the email from Christian,

I like the idea of the members removing the existing board and placing it with a group of members that will hold a real election.

Subject: NOMINATE HERE!!!
Treeman wrote:Well, as I don't think the rules that have been changed by the bod are valid. I do believe I have a choice in the election process.

Maybe we should let the state of Illinois decide if the other 1200 or so members and myself have that right.


This post was removed.

It is not in the spirit of the thread.

Thanks

Christian
Clownfish75
 

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