LEDs - Good, Bad or just another addiction?

[ming]

I will, once I got it successfully up and running.

 

[QUESTIONMARC]

This guy nailed it on the head! He is %100 correct.

 

[mfarris2]

Pacific Sun Led's

Just got mine in today. They are the cat's meow. Even my wife who was ready to skin me alive for spending so much on lighting thinks they are great.
Unbelievable easy setup. Had to call Rafal at 7:00pm (Saturday) He picked up and answered all my questions right away. (He was at his father's house. Fantastic customer service.) Somewhere I had read that the blue tooth was supposed to see both units. Not so, just supposed to see the master unit. After that, everything went smoothly. Units are heavy and well built. Running for about 3 hours and virtually no heat. I can hear Progress Energy already crying about their loss of revenue.

 

[moliken]

Just got mine in today. They are the cat's meow. Even my wife who was ready to skin me alive for spending so much on lighting thinks they are great.
Unbelievable easy setup. Had to call Rafal at 7:00pm (Saturday) He picked up and answered all my questions right away. (He was at his father's house. Fantastic customer service.) Somewhere I had read that the blue tooth was supposed to see both units. Not so, just supposed to see the master unit. After that, everything went smoothly. Units are heavy and well built. Running for about 3 hours and virtually no heat. I can hear Progress Energy already crying about their loss of revenue.

CONGRATS. GLAD TO HEAR IT.
how big is the tank? wanna see some before/after pictures!

 

[dickenscd]

Get it "FREE" or "ALMOST FREE".

I'm waiting for James to give me the "family" discount to try one out :lol2:

Actually, every reef hobbyist has a chance to get a LED Light ?FREE? or ?ALMOST FREE? at the following events,

NERAC Sat. March 20, 2010
http://www.neracv.com/

Manhattan Reefs Swap Sunday, April 18, 2010

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/spring-frag-swap-2010/70953-rsvp-mr-spring-2010-frag-swap-sun-april-18th.html

CTARS Conference Sunday, April 25, 2010

http://www.ctars.org/default.aspx?uc=conference2010


Sanjay will be the speaker at the above conferences. Sanjay did not become so popular until he published the following milestone article, but I hope he can answer half of the questions popped out in this thread,

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature2

My office at ?75 Austin Blvd., Commack, NY 11725? will open on Sat. March 20 between 5pm and 11pm after NERAC, so all the hobbyists in this area on their way home can stop by, see and play with the different LED lightings which I collect from around the world including,

Aqua Illumination
EproAqua
Solaris I4
Thorntex

More than 80% of the corals in the following tank at my office have been grown from frags strickly under LED since Dec.2007.

James

 

[jackson6745]

Has any of these LED manufactures done LED betta testing on top SPS tanks? I keep reading threads like this on every site where guys keep pushing their fixtures but I see a huge lack of results.
dickenscd, you're tank is beautiful and it is obvious that LED's do work, but so will T5, MH, VHO etc.. I am looking for more photographic evidence of peak colors in SPS if they exist out there. I am not anti-LED or anything but there are lots of guys like myself who gets great results from a different lighting method, I need more proof before dropping hard earned cash on a better light.

 

[mfarris2]

My tank is a 75 gallon mixed tank. Perhaps a few more LPS than SPS,...but close to an equal mix. I want to get the lights to about 75% power before taking any pictures. I just hooked them up yesterday and am starting at 45% power. I will increase by 5% each week. Even at 45% the corals, clams and everything else seems happy. I can tell you that for the first time in a very long time, my Living room was just as cool as the rest of my house. My chiller did not start up and run even once today. Since my thermostat for the A/C is in my living room,... my A/C will not run anywhere as often as it used to. These fixtures (1 day old) are already starting to pay me back for my investment.
And as for jackson6745, I am not by any means an light expert. Am not affiliated with any type of retail,....of anything. But I cannot see how these are not better than anything else out there. I can choose the color temp I want at the click of a button. I can choose the focused light strength I want by percentage of power.. I do not change bulbs for many years. I have virtually no heat issues. With anything else, if I want to change the color temp, I have to change the bulbs. If I add a new coral with anything else,....I may have to put it at the bottom of the tank and let it get used to the light intensity. With LED's, I can put it in it's permanent home and just turn down my light intensity. When I buy a larger tank,...I can just add on a module. With anything else,....you almost have to buy an entire new fixture to fit the increased length of the tank. Now your new fixture may only be the cost of a new module. But you will still be dealing with the heat and new bulbs. I pay once and I am done. And my power company does not get to hire a new employee.
OK,...I am done. Starting to sound like a salesman. Perhaps I should change my profession.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Im in the same mindframe as Jackson- I just barely know anything about LED's but I do know what its like to have to send expensive electronic equipment in for repair- its expensive and arent enough around yet to even get a replacement fast if you need to replace it. At least with my halides I can get all replacements for them if I need to the next day, IceCap is in Jersey and Russ is in an overnight ship zone to me. I love LED's just like the next guy with how they look and perform but I also have a hard time trusting that the bugs are all worked out to if I set them at 55% power theyll actually stay exactly where I set them. My halides only cause a 2 degree swing in my tank temps and my electric bill hasnt really gone up since getting this tank running with my halides. Eventually I'd like to switch once ALL of the proving ground in home research and feedback has been done and filed and the lights have a portfolio thats widely known to tempt me to spend over 1200 bucks to light a tank. I spent for my halides in all just under 600 for my 2 250W all IceCap setups ballasts, pendants and bulbs. I know I am going to get slammed by at least 1 person thats active in this thread but oh well. Is just how I feel about the LED thing as of now. Even with a slightly higher electric bill and having to replace bulbs I got a while before I spend that much. By then maybe I will spring for LED's well see when I have to cross that bridge.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

I know I am going to get slammed by at least 1 person thats active in this thread but oh well.

how's this for a body slam??

 

[JimmyR1rider]

You werent the one I wasnt implying- and I thought you were a nice guy tom lmao

 

[LongIslandAndy]

+1

has any of these led manufactures done led betta testing on top sps tanks? I keep reading threads like this on every site where guys keep pushing their fixtures but i see a huge lack of results.
Dickenscd, you're tank is beautiful and it is obvious that led's do work, but so will t5, mh, vho etc.. I am looking for more photographic evidence of peak colors in sps if they exist out there. I am not anti-led or anything but there are lots of guys like myself who gets great results from a different lighting method, i need more proof before dropping hard earned cash on a better light.

 

[mfarris2]

tomtoothdoc,
I loved your pic. I laughed for about 5 minutes.
As far as LED's are concerned, I guess I am kind of lucky,...and perhaps a bit optimistic. I have been in the Orlando, FL area for a few decades. For the most part I have worked in the hotel or hospital industry as an HVAC/Maintenance Engineer. I have seen the LED emergency exit lights come out about 15 years ago. Before that we had little mini bulbs that lasted about a year. I have not had to replace a single exit led sign in the 15 years that was not due to vandalism. I have a 3 watt LED flash light that blows away any incandescent flash light in white color and power. So I guess I am pretty much sold on LED lighting. Car and truck manufactures are heading that way. I am sure that they must of put some money into research to be sure they do not have a high failure rate.
Now does this mean that they will work for corals? I figure any kind of light is energy. If I was stuck on only one color temperature, I would not have purchased them. But with LED's,...I can tune my temps to suit the corals. From what I can tell using every type of fixtures over the past 22 years, (VHO's HO's CF, T-5's, MH's and now LED's) the corals really do not care where the light comes from. As long as it is the right color and right intensity. So lighting to me seems to be what is best for me. (As long as I meet the corals color temp and intensity) Needing high intensity for my clams and sps's, trying to avoid the heat of MH's and the chiller that goes with that,...LED's fit the bill for me. As far as parts replacement,....I am pretty handy with a soldering gun. I just do not think it would be a big deal for me to have to replace a bulb or two if I had too. I do understand other peoples hesitation. But my electric bill over the summer has averaged about $350.00 per month. Before the MH's and chiller it was about $200.00 per month. Now my electric company has also jacked up the rate 25% in that time as well. But a hundred and fifty dollars more per month I just could not handle any longer. My A/C would kick on every 10 minutes trying to get rid of the heat. It was either get rid of the tank or find a high intensity light with no heat. And as I stated earlier,.....I do have experience/confidence with LED's. I really enjoy my reef tank, so I did not want to tear it down. I decided to plunk down the money now,....rather than to be bleed to death by my electric company.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Wasnt saying theyre bad just too expensive- I know about led's all of the rigs we use at work are switching to LED emergency lights I dont worry about the actual LED's their average life rating is 50,000 hours, am just new to the whole wattage and par of the different ones for what we need them for- I am more concerned about the drivers and controllers that power and control them crapping out. It was the right choice for you I dont blame you- was just saying my situation I dont feel comfy with it yet. I also stated that in the future Ill probably be using them too, but I'd like to see more of them out there for a good while before I feel comfortable the bugs that all electronics experience the first so many years theyre on the market are worked out, but I hope you enjoy yours and they work well for you.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Even though I agree to most of your points but make sure you understand some of your assumptions may be wrong.

...
I have seen the LED emergency exit lights come out about 15 years ago. Before that we had little mini bulbs that lasted about a year. I have not had to replace a single exit led sign in the 15 years that was not due to vandalism
Agreed. They are proven very relaible for years in MOST products, including some LEDs in 10 year old toys are still functioning as of now. Unfortunately not all products are made of high standard as sometimes purchases go the cheaper route thus inferior products such as the LED traffic light in NYC(it deserve an investigation as to why/who/how they were purchased-it's a known fact that they break down often in the LED industry.), this fact leave a bad taste in many people of NYC
...
I figure any kind of light is energy. Corals need the right frequency of light to have the optimal efficiency
...
But with LED's,...I can tune my temps to suit the corals. From what I can tell using every type of fixtures over the past 22 years, (VHO's HO's CF, T-5's, MH's and now LED's) the corals really do not care where the light comes from. As long as it is the right color and right intensity. So lighting to me seems to be what is best for me. (As long as I meet the corals color temp and intensity)
Color temp as referred by reefers are generally a mistaken concept of quality of the light for coral. As demonstrated in a speech In LIRA meeting, I demonstrated the following 2 charts while they are both white light to our eyes, are VERY different in composition of light frequency.

 

[mfarris2]

100% agree. The fixtures are very expensive. Heck, I thought MH fixtures were unreasonably expensive. I actually started off pricing a new Coralife MH 2 X 250watt fixture. But they quit making the 250Watt in a 48" fixture. I then checked on Hamilton and they did not have what I wanted. (And these fixtures were all about $950.00) Finally I checked on LED's. Twice as expensive as a single MH fixture. But when you take into consideration the savings in electric. I kind of figured I make up for the difference in about a year to a year and a half.
As far as quality of the bulbs & drivers go, there will always be sub par units out there. All we can do is go with reader reviews. So far,...the brand I purchased has had all positive reviews from the actual people who own a set.
I have only had mine for 2 days,......so I am far from anything approaching an expert in LED lighting. But so far at only 45% power, 13500K my corals seem pretty happy.
I will post my results after about a month to verify coral growth. I just added some sps frags yesterday. So my growth calculations should be pretty accurate.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Cool beans M-- I hope they work out great for you cant wait to see how your corals do under them ( just wish I was rich) lmao J/K enjoy them!

 

[stage3-S4]

Im working on my own LED light design using my own driver circuit. I ended up going with the lm3404 psop-8 IC since it can handle up to 1 amp without any problems. It also has a dim input for pwm which I may use with a ATmega328 chip still havent decied yet. Ill post some pics of it when its done.

 

[clownlover]

Guys how's the spread on these things? I see lots of shadowed parts in the tank pics that are posted. What would be the footprint this lighting fixture would cover (BRIGHT for an SPS tank)?

r those luxeon tri stars?? if so what ratio of white to blu r u using?

 

[pecan2phat]

Those are Cree XPG whites & Cree XPE blues on the Aqua Illumination fixture.

 

[pecan2phat]

So You have seen my Pacific Sun Black Python BT EX modular fixtures, PFO Solaris H-series fixture & PFO Solaris I5 fixture. There were Aqua Illumination modular lamps shown on this thread, Eco-Lamp was mentioned and so was the Maxspect units.

On the extreme right of the curve, here are some chinese 120W LED modular fixtures that are relatively inexpensive when compared to LED aquarium lamps on the market. Mind you the cost reflects the product. There are no sunrise/sunset, dimming or lunar moonlight features, internal brick type power supplies and thin aluminum sheet as a heatsink. We were able to get the manufacturer in China to make a couple of changes from the original fixture that a LIRA member had ordered back in November. For a few dollars more, they added a second power cord so that the blues could be turned on separately from the whites (poor man's sunrise/sunset :lol2. Also instead of the original 9 vertical rows of white & 8 vertical rows of blue, we got them to reverse the placement so that there are more blues then whites and to also substitute every other vertical row of blues with actinic LEDs. I felt that the actinic additions will give more flourescence instead of a cold white/blue color. This also created a less visually bright light as compared to the original fixture. This gave a ratio of:
8 rows of whites (56)
5 rows of blues (35)
4 rows of actinic (28)
This is the original single Lamp that only had one power cord:

This is the Lamp that we had them change up a bit with the dual power cords, black casing & different LED layout:

Some not so good points of this light is:
No real heatsink, looks like they feel that the 3 fans blowing down on the thin aluminum sheet acting as a heatsink will disperse the heat.
Hanging kit looks cheap and they siliconed the nuts so you will need to remove the case to remove the hanging kit.
Internal brick type power supplies, not such a good idea IMO

As Wingo alluded to on the GB thread from the LIRA forum, longevity might be 2 to 3 years on these type of fixtures and I do have to agree with him
BUT............................
They were only $226 each shipped from China

So for about the quarter of the cost of a fully controllable modular lamp, you too can try an LED fixture out :biglaugh:

When I get the time this weekend, I'll actually swap out one of my Pacific Sun units and tell you what the visual appearance is compared to a $1k fixture.