limestone rock

[Anonymous]

Are you using GregWatson's stuff?

No. I use calcium nitrate from a local feed and seed store. It's about $5 for a few pounds. Also got some stump remover but haven't tried that. yet.


But the stuff is about the same as Greg's.

I also emailed him during a trip back to Iowa. He is interested in salt tanks but didn't have much experience especially in the mag dosing.

.02

 

[Anonymous]

wings. i think you are out of line.

OK then. Dose Nitrates. Add plant life. Turn off your skimmer and enjoy your cesspool!

 

[mr_X]

wings. i think you are out of line.

OK then. Dose Nitrates. Add plant life. Turn off your skimmer and enjoy your cesspool!

:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

wings. i think you are out of line.

OK then. Dose Nitrates. Add plant life. Turn off your skimmer and enjoy your cesspool!

:roll:

Exactly.

 

[mr_X]

i just think there are ways of presenting things. right or wrong.

 

[Anonymous]

i just think there are ways of presenting things. right or wrong.

Would you recommend BB's "methods" to a new reefer?

 

[mr_X]

no. but i wouldn't tell anyone their tank is ugly. i think i can argue a point without insulting someone, or their tastes. i just think if you kept to the facts, it would have been better. i couldn't help but feel bad for beaslbob-even though i may not have agreed with his methods.

 

[Anonymous]

no. but i wouldn't tell anyone their tank is ugly. i think i can argue a point without insulting someone, or their tastes. i just think if you kept to the facts, it would have been better. i couldn't help but feel bad for beaslbob-even though i may not have agreed with his methods.

I didn't say his tank was ugly. Read my posts. I like to compare what someone preaches to what their tank looks like. I think it's unfair to talk about a skewed "method" without looking at the results.

 

[mr_X]

ok then. my mistake.

 

[Anonymous]

Wings is entitled to his opinion. I certainly hope he does consider results. Like unmeasureable phosphates using tap water with over 5 ppm phosphates.

On the subject of advising newbies I notice that today we have 1 thread on nitrates, a couple on ro/di, some skimmers, one on temperature varaitions, 3-4 on sumps on the first page in the newbies forum. Faily typical with newbies' questions. All of which are answered with "my" methods.

Further if you google "beaslbob" you get this "hail beaslbob" thread (bolding and underlining added):

I would like to take this time to formally thank beaslbob for his persistent recommendation of macro algae & his perseverance in convincing me that they are beneficial to a productive reef community. As per his suggestion I have added the macros at day one of my cycle & have been dumbfounded at the results. At day 8-10 my levels dropped down to 0/0/0. Nowadays I only see small traces of nitrites (.1ppm), a phenomena which I am further investigating.

...

Which is typical newbies' experience when they start the system with macro algaes as the very first thing.

.02

 

[Anonymous]

Certainly, do Google BBob! I strongly suggest that as someone who has followed your exploits for years from board to board! For those who seem to think BBob is getting unfairly treated, please do some research and you will see that those of us who dispute him do so with very good reason.

Google and you will also see the myriad of people who disagreed with BBob in that "Hail" thread from 2004 he is so proud of, and still do to this day. How many boards have you been banned from BBob? I lost count. I personally know of at least 3 other boards that have banned you.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/printthre ... did=402308

This was another good one from this board, 21 pages or so.

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65003

Also, if you Google further you'll finds posts on other boards that show bob's advice is almost universally disagreed with. Such as this gem where he advises a new reefer it's okay to add tap water (without declorinator) as top off water because it works for him :lol:

http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name= ... ic&t=58388

There's more! A golden oldie from 2003 from a board he was banned from so you can see it's not just us "nasty" people here picking on him or his "methods". I'll paste in relevant part that board's Mod's comments here:

http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80550

Ok...enough...this thread will be closed.

Bob...you are as welcome here as any other member that maintains a civil attitude and refrains from violations of board policys.I've always held that position for all members here and I still do.

But...as I've stated a few times already...some of your methods seem to go against what most in this hobby consider main stream. That...in my opinion...is an understatement.

My concern is that folks with little to no experience will apply some of your advice with dire results. Now...yup...same could be said for a lot of the information/experience shared here. But...and this is a point I want all hobbiests who read these threads to consider...it seems to me that a lot of the information/experience/advice provided from beaslebob is at odds and often contradictory to what the vast majority of experiencied hobbiests would say.

The bolded portion above is also my greatest issue with BBob, that his "method" recommended to a new person is a disaster waiting to happen. I could go on with examples, but I'd just waste bandwidth as BBob is one thing, persistent in his not listening when others refute his "methods" :lol: . BBob likes to portray himself as a voice crying in the wilderness, touting the panacea of Macro algae as a cure-all 100% guaranteed sucess to the rigid and unlistening reefing establishment. That is far from the case.

In fact if you dig a bit, you will see from old posts on other boards he had major problems with his "system" when it was new and regularly lost livestock. Google is a two edged sword BBob, you would do well to remember what you have posted in other places before you advise people to "look you up"

 

[Anonymous]

Law: thanks for posting that. Now if anyone wants to they can check those threads out.

So what is actually everyone concerned about? Simple first establish the plant life with macros (chaeto) hopefully in some kind of refugium. Get and keep those macros in control. Then do the rest. That is the beaslbob method. Everything else is far distant second.

Now everyone can research how that idea is considered dangerous and to be hidden from people entering this hobby.


my .02

 

[Anonymous]

Law: thanks for posting that. Now if anyone wants to they can check those threads out.

C'mon, 'fess up...you adore playing that "role" and the attention it gives you.

Now, please comment on why so many people are wrong, and you are correct?

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, and while you are formulating your standard reply, please comment on why you feel you were banned from these various boards, and why the average reader should in fact believe anything you post, given these prior bannings and long history?

 

[Anonymous]

You're right I do enjoy "playing this role". I simply can't count all the new reefers I've met with with various problems. High nitrates, cyano, low ph, fish death and so on. Who have never heard of macros. And the surprised results they get with the addition of $5 of macros. One person on another board simply put a ball of chaeto in his overflow box and nitrates dropped drastically in a week. Another person had trouble with his skimmer so temporaily turned it off. His macros and coral did better. So he stopped doing water changes and again the macros and corals did even better.

I can't say why others insist you can't use $s/ton limestone vrs $s/pound liverock. As long as the tank is balanced out and stabilized with macros it should make no difference. Except as I first stated the limestone is more dense.

So perhaps you can fill me in on why you and "98 of 100" have that reaction to a tank balanced and stabilized with macro algae. That's something others will have to answer.


Why one moderator would insist in pms that macros do not consume oxygen is beyond my understanding.

I don't know or understand why someone with say a 120g tank and a 55g refugium full of chaeto swears up and down it is the live rock, live sand, skimmer, water changes, do/di and so on that maintains low nitrates.

All I know is I have 2 salt reef tanks and 2 FW planted with 3 of the 4 using tap water and all having no no water changes. The nitrates from the bioload in all those tanks is unmeasureable. With no circulation and no filters in the FW. The reefs have circulation and waste basket filter on the 55g.

The 55g has 6 fish 5 of which have been in there for 4 years. And corals for three.

The 4 year old FW 10g has had a stable population of 20-30 fish during that time.


As to why you and others react to that I can't say.

But meanwhile newbies will great tanks even if thay use limestome rocks.

.02

 

[Anonymous]

As usual, you ignore my questions and try and wiggle out of answering. But, I'll address you one last time.

You're right I do enjoy "playing this role". I simply can't count all the new reefers I've met with with various problems. High nitrates, cyano, low ph, fish death and so on. Who have never heard of macros. And the surprised results they get with the addition of $5 of macros. One person on another board simply put a ball of chaeto in his overflow box and nitrates dropped drastically in a week. Another person had trouble with his skimmer so temporaily turned it off. His macros and coral did better. So he stopped doing water changes and again the macros and corals did even better.

Gee, how come when I Google as you directed I don't find these "satisifed proponents" of your "system"? Your methodology has been rebutted many many times in many different forums however. All you are is an attention seeker BBob, plain pure and simple.

I can't say why others insist you can't use $s/ton limestone vrs $s/pound liverock. As long as the tank is balanced out and stabilized with macros it should make no difference. Except as I first stated the limestone is more dense.

That was addressed way back on page 1 by several posters. Besides, your own agrument focuses on a cycled tank "balanced" etc which a new tank is not.

Why one moderator would insist in pms that macros do not consume oxygen is beyond my understanding.

I don't know or understand why someone with say a 120g tank and a 55g refugium full of chaeto swears up and down it is the live rock, live sand, skimmer, water changes, do/di and so on that maintains low nitrates.

You seem to discount the well-documented role various bacteria plays in the ammonia cycle. How very scientific of you! I won't even begin to address your consistent argument that terrestrial plants and marine macro algae function the same.

All I know is I have 2 salt reef tanks and 2 FW planted with 3 of the 4 using tap water and all having no no water changes. The nitrates from the bioload in all those tanks is unmeasureable. With no circulation and no filters in the FW. The reefs have circulation and waste basket filter on the 55g.


The 55g has 6 fish 5 of which have been in there for 4 years. And corals for three.

The 4 year old FW 10g has had a stable population of 20-30 fish during that time.

Then why as I have pointed out have you posted in other places of tank crashes and fish deaths? Again, your assertations of sucess are seriously in doubt.

Now, answer my question...why do YOU think you have been banned from other boards?

 

[Anonymous]

That was addressed way back on page 1 by several posters.

I am perplexed by this response. Your reasoning for not using limestone was......?

Bob stated it is not porous, and does not have surface area for anaerobic bacteria. The OP stated he had 120 lbs of live rock.

A reply stated noxious chemicals can be released. That is an issue that we could discuss here on this Not-for-newbies forum.

BB was the only one who took the time to reply to the OP. The next 4 pages are personal attacks on him.

A few months ago, when I was active here, I noticed a thread in the sump where a moderator asked people to post topside. It drew my attention to how few posts and threads there are topside. But, now I wonder if having the personal attacks brought from the sump are a good thing?

Is there anywhere on Reefs.org where people can discuss reef keeping without personal attacks and viscous sniping?

Go back and read the responses to the original post. No one took the time to actually answer this mans question except BB.






















Do you guys even have fish tanks?

 

[Anonymous]

wings. i think you are out of line.

OK then. Dose Nitrates. Add plant life. Turn off your skimmer and enjoy your cesspool!

I love my cesspool! I wonder if we could have a thread about manipulating NO3 to reduce PO4 without you beating me up? I don't think it is as novel as it used to be.....

 

[Anonymous]

That was addressed way back on page 1 by several posters.

I am perplexed by this response. Your reasoning for not using limestone was......?

Bob stated it is not porous, and does not have surface area for anaerobic bacteria. The OP stated he had 120 lbs of live rock.

A reply stated noxious chemicals can be released. That is an issue that we could discuss here on this Not-for-newbies forum.

BB was the only one who took the time to reply to the OP. The next 4 pages are personal attacks on him.

A few months ago, when I was active here, I noticed a thread in the sump where a moderator asked people to post topside. It drew my attention to how few posts and threads there are topside. But, now I wonder if having the personal attacks brought from the sump are a good thing?

Is there anywhere on Reefs.org where people can discuss reef keeping without personal attacks and viscous sniping?

Go back and read the responses to the original post. No one took the time to actually answer this mans question except BB.

Do you guys even have fish tanks?

Sorry, the OP was addressed on page 2 not page 1. As far as this being a personal attack you are incorrect. I am not attacking Bob, only his persistent assertations that span many boards and many years. If one throws out an idea, one should expect it to be debated. Many many times his conclusions have been refuted here, and elswhere.

Since Bob persists in touting "his method" as a panacea, I will continue to point out the overwhelming inconsistencies in his reported results. If that consitutes "sniping" in your mind, so be it.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps there should be a forum established for "Unconventional or Experimental reefkeeping methods"..........