Zeovit System

[AlohaTropics]

Yes, I have to admit this thread was extremely amusing. I hope we all take this with a grain of sea salt. It is if fact just a hobby for most of us. I appreciate all of the ideas, concerns, pros and cons that it produced. Look for me to start a new thread in about a week or so to document my system. Thanks again guys.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Another thing is people talk about Zeo reducing hair algae and phosphate. Wouldn't dosing the tank with Vodka accomplish the same result and not to mention CHEAPER?! I have also read that you need to follow the directions or you can end up with bacterial blooms. Bacterial blooms can rob enough oxygen from your tank water to distress or even kill fish. If you reduce your nitrate and phosphate too low you can kill or damage many types of coral such as soft corals. When you dose vodka, you know what you are adding to your tank. Zeovit does not disclose their ingredients. It is hard to compare things when you don't know what is in one of the items you are trying to compare.

Most forum have a heated debate whenever vodka dosing(along) is brought up(without naming Zeo). And, when Zeo is the subject, people start to say they can replace it with Vodka. So is vodka safe to use or not? Where does one get the instructions for doinsg vodka? Anyone has a detailed study or controlled experiments on it? Why are all the unbalance views? One(Vodka) is mostly by hobbyists' experience and the other(Zeo) may (or may not) have done a proper research but just not willing to release their secrets.

To me, what's in the system is not important unless I am a scientist or copycat trying to copy someone else's inventions. As for my hobby side of this reef thing, as long as it works, I care less what's in it and where it come from. If someone can show(not necessarily proved) that talking to corals can make them grow better, I will try. Why? because it's cheap. Ha, money does pay a part afterall. So why was vodka evil until someone mentioned a more expensive system called Zeo and now then vodka is not evil anymore? I, of course, want to run my system at the lowest possible cost but when the provider is not willing to release their secrets, I would let them alone. I will then base my purchase on users who have actual experience rather than guess. We can compare results not their ingredients.

 

[ShaunW]

So because this ratio should always be kept constant whether in the ocean, in our traditionally ran aquariums or in a ZEOvit system, its the change of this ratio that you put your tank under when converting to the ZEO system that causes tank crashes. Am I correct to conclude this Shaun?

Yes this would be my opinion with the caveat, biological ecosystems (like our aquariums) can deviate from the ratio to some degree. Life can adapt by changing certain parameters to adjust for differences in C or N or P in relation to each other. The organic part of the equation (all the living creatures in the tank) can change to compensate for an altered inorganic ratio (the actual water chemistry). So in an aquarium you could have P out of whack (too high) and the system will compensate by causing algae to grow or bacteria to multiply (decreasing P along with C, and N).

But this adaption takes time, and if it is changed rapidly then you can cause a system crash because along with P decrease you can limit C and N such that things can die, or one species replaces another.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Am I suppose to find 2 people now that have issues with regular systems and post them? Anyway, I'm not sure what your two stories are suppose to show.

You don't have to. Just type the word phrase "tank crash", you will find tons of threads here-both experienced and not experience reefers having issues with the more traditional methods, vodka dosing or Zeo. Oh, not to mention those who did not post of their crashes. I remembered couple Photo of the Month tanks or highly praised SPS tank disappeared while the owners have not moved since then.

 

[ShaunW]

1-How do you explain the abundance of healthy corals on reefs that have major phosphate shifts on a near daily basis from tidal changes? The florida keys are a prime example. Outgoing tides drain phosphate rich water from the bay onto the reef which stays there until the next incoming tide which
brings in very low nutrient water out of the gulf stream.

My above post is why you can have this happen. The life present there have adapted to that environment.

 

[ShaunW]

Vodka dosing also changes the Redfield ratio by adding inorganic carbon. This carbon gets shuttled into energy (ATP) for bacterial growth and in the process when the bacteria grow they use any available P and N present in the water.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Vodka dosing also changes the Redfield ratio by adding inorganic carbon. This carbon gets shuttled into energy (ATP) for bacterial growth and in the process when the bacteria grow they use any available P and N present in the water.

Side step a little.

(Table)Sugar dosing is not exactly same as vodka dosing as (table)sugar cannot be assimilated into the bacteria directly, correct?

 

[ShaunW]

Side step a little.

(Table)Sugar dosing is not exactly same as vodka dosing as (table)sugar cannot be assimilated into the bacteria directly, correct?

Sugar can definitely be assimilated into the bacteria, much better than vodka. Using fire as an analogy, vodka would be equal to pouring minimally flammable oil on a fire, it burns but not crazy and all at once. Sugar to bacteria is like pouring jet fuel on a fire.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Sugar can definitely be assimilated into the bacteria, much better than vodka. Using fire as an analogy, vodka would be equal to pouring minimally flammable oil on a fire, it burns but not crazy and all at once. Sugar to bacteria is like pouring jet fuel on a fire.

oops typo-I mean to say vodka cannot be directly assimilated.

i rather vodka dose myself and sugar dose the tank. LOL

Good analogy. I understand the safety concerns much better now.

 

[NYreefNoob]

Vodka dosing also changes the Redfield ratio by adding inorganic carbon. This carbon gets shuttled into energy (ATP) for bacterial growth and in the process when the bacteria grow they use any available P and N present in the water.

this is why i went back to vodka myself, to maintain and keep p and n down. ALOHA, i have given reasons i have chose not to run zeo, i miss dosing aminos enough, but also feed heavy, you said with zeo it's less equiptment, what equiptment will you be using less of or not needing that wont be replaced with a zeo reactor, you said denitrator, few people use those, people arent bashing the system, but giving warnings on it, same as they did with vodka, and like i said i am all for trying stuff t oa degree, and best of luck with it

 

[AlohaTropics]

The equipment that I am relinquishing is first off for a 1200gal. system, I needed a 200 gallon refugium with a ton of Chaeto and Mangroves and a PC light. I can eliminated that entire tank setup. I will also not be using UV, DSB, Ozone, Phosphate Reactor, Sulfur Denitrator (for those that do have them). I will pretty much be only running my BK Skimmer, my Zeo Reactor and a CaCO2 Reactor (haven't figured out balling yet).

I understand the concerns and warnings (some of those posts were clearly bashing zeo) but I think a lot of the problems occuring from people trying to switch their systems over to ZEO. Hopefully starting from scratch will avoid potential melt downs.

I would have stuck with Vodka myself but as Wingo stated above, its a home remedy with no real research done for it. There is no real way of knowing how much harm you really are doing to your system. I'm switching from Vodka to ZEO because yes the cost is higher but I feel more comfortable with guidelines and running something that has been control tested and proven to work.

 

[NYreefNoob]

i dont have ton of Chaeto and Mangroves , UV, DSB, Ozone, Phosphate Reactor, Sulfur Denitrator , i do have a phos reactor but i run carbon through it, the same can be said with zeo on its a home remedy with no real research done for it. kinda like marc weis products, vodka has had extensive research done, most of the effects of it as well as other stuff arent really truelly tested, and your playing a guessing game to a degree learning how much of what to dose, as i stated that was prodibio's problem you got a vial and was suppose to dose that vial, wasnt an option to dose smaller amount unless ya wanted to throwthe rest away. zeo wont release whats in it as it might just end up being vodka or sugar water or methynal, which are all use's to bind P n N.

 

[AlohaTropics]

How many times do I have to say goodbye? Are you really comparing home vodka dosing and zeovit in the R&D department? I Congratulate you to have such a gorgeous SPS tank, with beautiful colored corals and no need to run anything but carbon. But your in the minority. Most of us use more than just carbon and yet we all still run into problems.

And I thought u asked me what equipment I would not be using. Are you running a 1200gal. System? How do you know what you would be running if you aren't?

 

[DCG1286]

How many times do I have to say goodbye? Are you really comparing home vodka dosing and zeovit in the R&D department? I Congratulate you to have such a gorgeous SPS tank, with beautiful colored corals and no need to run anything but carbon. But your in the minority. Most of us use more than just carbon and yet we all still run into problems.

And I thought u asked me what equipment I would not be using. Are you running a 1200gal. System? How do you know what you would be running if you aren't?

I don't know how much of that is true ... NYReefNoob is one of MANY to have a beautiful SPS system ... without the use of Zeovits ... Rock on Rick ... your tank looks even better now (if that was even possible! )

Not quite sure why you are questioning whether he is running a 1200G system ... maybe I missed something when I was reading. Sorry about that.

BTW I agree with Dhaut ... this is my favorite thread on MR Thanks for starting it!

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

I wished the SPS moderator can chime in his experience with the non-zeo system and his understanding of the difference between the Zeo and non-zeo systems/experience.

Something do puzzle me about content of the Zeo, "if ZEO is really that simple as to Vodka, sugar, or methano, how come so far no one in this hobby(I think MR alone is like 3000 plus active members and couple thousands more lurkers who are from all walks of life), can actually ID the content, provided it causes such a big controvesy. We don't even have a member who is a chemical technician or access to the lab????? Same goes for RC, there must be some one in a chem or pharmacuetical lab or hospital.

Reefmadness when you got your ZEO, please save a little for me so that I can ask a doctor(if their hospitals say OK) to test it.

 

[AlohaTropics]

I Said he was in the minority because most of the beautiful tanks I've seen described here and the tanks if the month of reekeepers run some pretty elaborate systems. If reefnoob can do it eith just some carbon, then I applaud him but I still think not many are as successful with only carbon. At the same time, I asked if he was running a 1200gal system because most larger systems Ive seen use more epuipment than just carbon reactor. Therefore when he asked me what equipment I personally thought I would eliminate, I think it's only fair to compare my equipment with a system of equal size.

 

[tomtoothdoc]

i've just read the whole 14 pages of this. by far this is one of the most interesting reads and learned a few things or two (like redfield ratios-thanks to ShaunW) along the way. AlohaTropics- cool thread man....kudo's to you for stepping in front of the firing squad....lol. good luck with the tank and please keep us posted so we can all learn thru you since many if not most of us will not have the opportunity to run such a system like yours. kinda like virtual reefing thru your eyes. thanks man.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Lots of pics and test parameters plus a complete description of the equipment and the setup process would be nice from everyone running or who had run this system. This would make a great discussion. Keep in mind that ShaunW is a professional microbiologist. So anything he posts with a description like the one he posted above is usually a great workup from someone who definitely knows what they are talking about, especially when talking about things on a cellular level.

 

[ShaunW]

I wished the SPS moderator can chime in his experience with the non-zeo system and his understanding of the difference between the Zeo and non-zeo systems/experience.

I had a very successful tank without using zeovit. But my tank was barebottom, minimal fish bioload, big skimmer, and a large canister of phosban for phosphate control.

Something do puzzle me about content of the Zeo, "if ZEO is really that simple as to Vodka, sugar, or methano, how come so far no one in this hobby(I think MR alone is like 3000 plus active members and couple thousands more lurkers who are from all walks of life), can actually ID the content, provided it causes such a big controvesy. We don't even have a member who is a chemical technician or access to the lab????? Same goes for RC, there must be some one in a chem or pharmacuetical lab or hospital.

Reefmadness when you got your ZEO, please save a little for me so that I can ask a doctor(if their hospitals say OK) to test it.

I tested the bacterial species present in zeobak. They were species that would function well to reduce N and P. These species would be found in waste water management systems.

 

[NYreefNoob]

60g or 1200g not anything different done except larger equiptment and larger water changes. let's see, research and developent, pretty much all of zeo's stuff you can buy from any other company, and has been out long before, most companies didnt market it the same way zeo does, like i said i am not taking anything away from zeo, as i have not used it myself nor seen a tank in person who does, my tank is the only one i have seen in person who use's carbon or ran the brightwell system, other's here do as well, one thing i will say alot of people have tried stuff and just didnt do it long enough to type about it or didnt feel the need to, alot of people have tried stuff and crashed tanks and didnt want to post about it, myself i would try zeo, but id end up missing adding stuff and i dont test my parms enough to run that system, i can tell health of my tank off a few of my corals colors, when water is off, here is a example of 2 large systems i have seen daceman which his is around 500g-700g cal reactor, skimmer and i think a kalk reactor, phos and carbon reactor, albano around 450g and he only runsa skimmer, they both use cheato, albano has a ton of miricle mud also, i do have cheato a handful of it and i do have 2 mangroves, and only still have this stuff in there cause i am too lazy to take it out, the best stuff i have seen or used at controlling doc's and others has been bob's seagrass, when i had it in my seahorse tank i didnt do water changes for 6 months and if i had to clean glass once a month that was alot.