Zeovit System

[AlohaTropics]

Why does everyone think I say the system is easy? There is no such thing as an easy reef system. Its as if people like to interpret things their own way. Just read the context of what I wrote. I said the system is just like any other, it takes attention and the more time you put in the better your results. What I said was simpler was the setup of the system. You can't argue that there is no Refugium, no uv, no phos reactor, no active carbon reactor (passive carbon needed). The SYSTEM itself is less complicated. Of course there is many things that need to be done when it comes to testing and dosing but that what comes with the reefing hobby.

Mshur, I would love to speak more with you about your experience with the system. I'm sure you have plenty of great advise I can use! Pics of the system soon to come!

PS heres a good thread from an unbias ZEOvit user. He's a senior user of ZEOvit and he gives his reasons and also mentions missing doses.
http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17247

 

[mshur]

Any time man))Just pm me and I'll help you in a any ways

 

[DHaut]

Zeo is starting to sound like a cult, lol.

 

[AlohaTropics]

Your basically right. Its a large group of people that are doing things away from traditional methods. Its no question that the same can be accomplished with both methods but what we're all discussing is how much money, time, effort, etc... goes into each method to actually achieve those results. IMO, I lean towards the Zeo method because it seems to me to involve less (the supplements are optional) and the cost can be offset from the lack of equipment needed to run a traditional system. The end result from running a zeo if done correctly is pretty constant. I feel traditional systems vary greatly. I just think there are just a lot of Zeo-haters out there. But hey, I'll let you all know if my opinion changes over the next year. Til then, keep an open mind!

Not to bring in something as controversial as religion but its like most of the world believes in God or a god. If you come in as an atheist, it doesn't matter what reasoning you have or how many explanations you have through logic and science to show the religious that there may be another answer. They won't believe you and will eventually start to hate you.

 

[DHaut]

It boils down to personal preference. Zeo will give you a certain look. IMO, pastels look like grandma's beach clothes.

Glad you got that atheism thing off your chest.

 

[AlohaTropics]

lol, me too.

 

[NYreefNoob]

what less equiptment do you think you will need to run a zeo system ? i appplaud anyone who tries something, as i have done a few trials myself, your right you dont need to run all 30 of their products. but yuo still will be using all the basic one's, no different then doing any other uln system. 1 thing i have noticed in this hobby, is everyone that either use's a certain brand of equiptment or additive tries to justify the use of it, does that guy who bought a $1000 skimmer think it really pulls more then my $250 skimmer ? or should say, pulls 4 times the amount ? yyes some skimmers are built better and easier to service, does the guy running zeo swear by it being better then vodka or brightwell or prodibio ? yes. prodibio's only problem was you got x amount per serving instead of them really taking the time to figure out a better dosing system and amount, reason most people didnt continue with it, { i ran that system also } ive kept going back to good ole smirnoff, ive achieved the same end result as brightwell, prodibio. i am still stripping the system of nutrients and still having to add amino's. i dont knock you for trying zeo. but what you write and how it comes across is making it seem like it is a simple system to run, cheap and not time consuming,

 

[DCG1286]

how much money, time, effort, etc... goes into each method to actually achieve those results. IMO, I lean towards the Zeo method because it seems to me to involve less (the supplements are optional) and the cost can be offset from the lack of equipment needed to run a traditional system. The end result from running a zeo if done correctly is pretty constant. I feel traditional systems vary greatly. I just think there are just a lot of Zeo-haters out there. But hey, I'll let you all know if my opinion changes over the next year. Til then, keep an open mind!

I don't see the lack of cost, time and effort you are referring to either ... I fully agree with NYREEFNOOB on this one. A zeo tank requires constant care and attention ... it's another child added to the house ... forget taking a vacation unless you have someone you really trust and rely on for taking care of your tank as much as you would ... otherwise kiss it goodbye.
Please let us know if you do decide to use this system ... share your experiences but not your corals

 

[AlohaTropics]

Well, you don't need that huge sump & Fuge. You don't need the light for all the macroalgae that you don't need. Your advised not to run a phos reactor. You have no need for a carbon reactor (carbon is ran passively). For those using a sulfur denitrator, no need for that. If I stick to the basics it will cost me $360/yr in zeolites, $100/yr in Zeobak, $150/yr in Zeostart and $100/yr in carbon. I'm saying the cost to run all that equipment I listed from a traditional system offsets these costs I just gave.

Again, the guys at KZ told me it perfectly fine to not dose your system for as long as a week. This is just another example of how I posted earlier that people exaggerate things as rumor go through forums. Kiss your tank goodbye if you don't eyeball it everyday? Come on, seriously?

 

[AlohaTropics]

Oh yea, not to mention no ozone, no DSB. The system is just less complicated.

Ask some of the Senior Members in ZEOvit forums who switched from conventional methods. They all agree that the time and effort it takes to run the system much less and not as complex. Once you know what supplements your tank react well to, it becomes a dosing schedule. Most of them say that water changes can be cut in half when running Zeo. As far as I know, my tank maintenance will be adding supplements in the morning & stirring the Zeolites in the morning and evening. Changing out the Zeolites every 2 months. Changing the Carbon every month. Water change 10% every 2-3 weeks. Compared to scraping algae everyday, changing water every week, changing phosphate media, changing sulfur, dealing with ozone. Maybe its just me, but I think its easier.

Also, I believe in the idea behind it. Strip your water of everything. Then dose exactly what your tank needs. I think that just makes more sense than starting with a nutrient high system and using all sorts of equipment (phos, sulfur, chaeto, mangroves, etc...) to try to bring your levels down and hover them perfectly where you want them.

Again, its pointless to argue. Lets just see how my system turns out. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I just lean towards believing in this system after all the reading and talking to people involved. Only time will tell.

 

[sakura51707]

Heres the thing I don't get...

It seems like an important part of the system is going bare-bottom, BIG water changes, great flow, good lights, running carbon 24\7, AND THEN using the Zeovit system?!? :splitspin

To me, everything but the zeovit part is JUST GOOD HUSBANDRY!! I do all those things, and since I've done all those things I've yet to detect phosphates or NO3. ALSO don't the rocks contain Fe(iron)?! It just seems like all the rock could be doing is binding and then exporting PO4. This would be supported by the fact that they must be changed. If it were purely a bacterial thing, you would think there is a way the rocks could be recycled. (An idea proposed by another trusted reefer who will remain anonymous)

Most of what the system says seems to make sense. But wouldn't everything also make sense and the results be explainable if all the rocks were doing is binding silicates and phosphates?! :shhh:

Another thing is people talk about Zeo reducing hair algae and phosphate. Wouldn't dosing the tank with Vodka accomplish the same result and not to mention CHEAPER?! I have also read that you need to follow the directions or you can end up with bacterial blooms. Bacterial blooms can rob enough oxygen from your tank water to distress or even kill fish. If you reduce your nitrate and phosphate too low you can kill or damage many types of coral such as soft corals. When you dose vodka, you know what you are adding to your tank. Zeovit does not disclose their ingredients. It is hard to compare things when you don't know what is in one of the items you are trying to compare.

Lastly, I know personally I haven't considered keeping SPS until I had mastered and maintained a level of zero of PO4, NO3, and silicates. To me, it just seems like there are established, understood, and fully explainable ways of reducing these, that don't involve a system where "The first rule of Zeovit, is NO ONE talks about whats in Zeovit. The second rule of Zeovit, is NO ONE talks about whats in Zeovit. The third rule of Zeovit, 10% water changes once a week. The fourth rule....." :givebeer:

 

[AlohaTropics]

Not sure how u use the fight club analogy, people on zeovit. Com have been more that helpful. The debate still stands about whether pohl should reveal his secret formula or not. Personally I don't care if he does. I agree with your whole post, Ive said it before, you can get the same results doing things the way we always have. I just think the way we've been doing it is arduous and more issues come up because were always trying to tweak our systems with something else. I think a good example is like windows and mac. I use to be a windows user and then I awitched to mac. I know mac is more propietary with their stuff and it's hard to get use to but once u learn it u realize how much easier the system is rather than windows have layer upon layer of code that can mess up all the time.

As far as I know, the zeolite rocks actually absorb ammonia and prohibit the breakdown so you never get through the nitrogen cycle. It attacks the cycle at the source. The bacteria on the rocks actually feeds the coral when you stir up the rocks and inject the bacteria into the watercolumn. It is said that when you do this, you should see polyp extensions. Look, from what I see, the system works. There are thousands of people around the world that have gorgeous Zeovit systems. Do you think it's a hallucination? I'm not quite sure what everyone is really disagreeing with me about. Are you saying that zeovit doesn't work? I haven't seen anyone who does the zeovit system like they're suppose to and have completely different results.

BTW, barebottom is not necessary, u can have a shallow sandbed. It stays mice and white because of the low nutrient system.

 

[AlohaTropics]

Sakura, the things you named bare bottom tank (not necessary, shallow sand) Big water changes (not true, most of the guys at zeovit.com have told me you do less water changes) great flow, good lights, carbon 24/7.

These ARE all the same but the difference comes after that. You have a Zeovit reactor that holds your zeolite rocks. Then you dose your supplements. Is that the crazy Zeovit system that you think is too arduous to do? This is the part I'm comparing. After all of those things above, you also have a refugium, deep sand bed, macroalgae, another light for the fuge, ozone, phosphate reactor, ,phos media, Denitrator Reactor, sulfur denitrator, active carbon reactor. Although some of those things are optional, they are actually eliminated and deemed harmful in a Zeovit system. Thats why it is my belief that zeovit is actually simplifying your system. Don't we dose aminos and other supplements as well? The supplement dosing should not be the terribly complicating factor of zeovit. So what is?

Yes Vodka dosing is very much the same. Both produce a low nutrient environment. Vodka dosing I have found and have been told by others to beware of its dangers. Its a "home remedy" to an actual R&D system like zeovit. With vodka, like you said, you can disrupt the cycle in your system. You can also deplete the system too far, but that is the same with zeovit, hence the replenishing of supplements. Again, I think the difference is with the zeolite exporting Ammonia from you system. It completely changes the bacterial cycle. Live Sand is harmful in zeovit because the different bacteria do not interact properly. The system really is totally different but your right, we don't know whats truly behind it because Thomas Pohl wants to make his millions and rightfully so.

I'll say it again, I believe a system that you strip bare and readd supplements into is far more under control and stable than a system where you use all sorts of equipment and filters to lower you parameters to where you want them. Zeovit is like resetting all of your values to 0 and then slowly adding exactly what you need instead of starting with high values and slowly pulling things away and trying to hover at a certain point.

 

[AlohaTropics]

Its funny because I had people tell me that opening threads about zeovit on a regular reefing forum is futile. People will just argue and tell you its no good. So I'm just gonna stop here. Let me run the system. I'll take pics. I'll invite everyone over on a Sunday in a month or two and we'll all have a beer and take a look.

 

[cali_reef]

Best of luck to you.. Why do you have only 12 post and they are all in this thread?

 

[DCG1286]

Not sure how u use the fight club analogy, people on zeovit. Com have been more that helpful. The debate still stands about whether pohl should reveal his secret formula or not. Personally I don't care if he does. I agree with your whole post, Ive said it before, you can get the same results doing things the way we always have. I just think the way we've been doing it is arduous and more issues come up because were always trying to tweak our systems with something else. I think a good example is like windows and mac. I use to be a windows user and then I awitched to mac. I know mac is more propietary with their stuff and it's hard to get use to but once u learn it u realize how much easier the system is rather than windows have layer upon layer of code that can mess up all the time.

As far as I know, the zeolite rocks actually absorb ammonia and prohibit the breakdown so you never get through the nitrogen cycle. It attacks the cycle at the source. The bacteria on the rocks actually feeds the coral when you stir up the rocks and inject the bacteria into the watercolumn. It is said that when you do this, you should see polyp extensions. Look, from what I see, the system works. There are thousands of people around the world that have gorgeous Zeovit systems. Do you think it's a hallucination? I'm not quite sure what everyone is really disagreeing with me about. Are you saying that zeovit doesn't work? I haven't seen anyone who does the zeovit system like they're suppose to and have completely different results.

BTW, barebottom is not necessary, u can have a shallow sandbed. It stays mice and white because of the low nutrient system.

No one ever said this hobby was easy ... and zeovits is not going to make it any easier ... from your post you have had a very hard time keeping your nutrients in check hence the urge for the Zeovits system. If it's so easy and cost effective as you have stated it to be, why isn't everyone doing it? Let's be honest about that.


Cali-reef ... obviously he is very passionate and convinced of this system ... hence the 12 posts on this thread ... You think it's a veil of identity?

 

[DHaut]

Best of luck to you.. Why do you have only 12 post and they are all in this thread?

haha...I wasn't going to say anything.

How long until the yearly cost of a zeo system adds up to the equipment you could buy to run an excellent system without zeo? Zeo just doesn't seem like a long-term cost-effective solution.

And pastels really do look like grandma's beach clothes.

 

[AlohaTropics]

No hidden identity, I posted earlier that I'm the one that started the thread, just started a user for my business. I'll let you all know how I'm doing with it. In response to DCG, I know zeo is not super popular in the states and it's probably because of the higher cost through prolong use but there are thousands and thousands of users around the world. The same question is a double edged sword. If it wasn't a good system, how cone so many do use it and it's gotten so popular that it has a forum with thousands of users on it?

 

[AlohaTropics]

And just as I said in the earlier posts, I justified the prolonged cost with my switch over to LED lighting. The savings in just electrical cost of the sump system and LED over HQI is more than the yearly cost in zeo products.

 

[DHaut]

I use LED lighting. Doesn't mean the zeo isn't adding up cost to the point where the equipment it replaces becomes cheaper than the additives/zeo equipment. I'm not concerned how one justifies the cost. My point is that if you spend $500/year on additives/carbon/whatever to run a zeo environment, in 4 years you could have some kickass equipment without the need to use the zeo method. And then you'd be saving $500/year going forward. If you only plan to keep a system in the short term, then use zeo. In the long-run, it may not be cheaper depending on how much you need to spend. This is barring equipment failure, obviously. But that's an uncontrolled variable - we're talking ceterus paribus equipment vs. no equipment and zeo.