Couldn't agree more, his was the best post so far. I did like the first post alot also. I feel alot of members fill their mouths with public positive feedback for vendors, outside of feedback ratings, without really putting much effort into thinking "was this really an exceptional experience or service?". when you can answer yes to that question, after giving it some thought, then you can start a "thank you thread" for the vendor. I personally feel most vendors aren't doing enough for the customer pool they're being allowed to dip into. The prices most vendors have, when i care to look, are still the same, and many times higher, than what i would pay at an LFS or online. I prefer to get my stuff cheaper from someone following the same practices, online companies and FS, than from someone selling it at a higher price just because theyre not a big business. If you want my business earn it, show me something different and better than what i'm used to.
Who is Responsible?!?
- Thread starter SlamaJama
- Start date
- Status
Couldn't agree more, his was the best post so far. I did like the first post alot also. I feel alot of members fill their mouths with public positive feedback for vendors, outside of feedback ratings, without really putting much effort into thinking "was this really an exceptional experience or service?". when you can answer yes to that question, after giving it some thought, then you can start a "thank you thread" for the vendor. I personally feel most vendors aren't doing enough for the customer pool they're being allowed to dip into. The prices most vendors have, when i care to look, are still the same, and many times higher, than what i would pay at an LFS or online. I prefer to get my stuff cheaper from someone following the same practices, online companies and FS, than from someone selling it at a higher price just because theyre not a big business. If you want my business earn it, show me something different and better than what i'm used to.
micheal from what you have said, slama is now shown as a dishonest person only looking for a replacement at your expense. From all your assumptions on mike your providing negative theories on what kinda reefer this man is.
In mike's defense how do we know you are supplying the right numbers yourself? We don't know as well. Question is how honest are the vendors that sell on manhattanreefs. Never the less your current numbers providing on what wholesale cost is cannot be verified unless we see some real proof.
I understand your not obligated on making a guarantee on livestock survival, but on this website is it that hard to do the right thing? Everyone vendor on this board should recognize what kinda person this hobbyist is.
In mike's defense how do we know you are supplying the right numbers yourself? We don't know as well. Question is how honest are the vendors that sell on manhattanreefs. Never the less your current numbers providing on what wholesale cost is cannot be verified unless we see some real proof.
I understand your not obligated on making a guarantee on livestock survival, but on this website is it that hard to do the right thing? Everyone vendor on this board should recognize what kinda person this hobbyist is.
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
if ur price is $90, which now im calling u a liar....then u made $30 on the first fish, if i was to minus the $30 profit the next fish should have cost $60, now u kno and I those number never came up and btw, when i say the fish went behind the rocks never to be seen for 2 days, THEN THATS WAT HAPPENED, i dont need to lie or back peddle im honest and up front....fortunatly my rep is much better than urs and i wouldnt worry about future business here everyone else WILL buy elsewhere
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
steven i respect ur opinion and is something to concider...
this thread was not intended to resolve this unresolvable issue, it was intended as a buyer beware
Last edited:
In all fairness i think we can discuss this on a more professional level. Let's keep the conversation civil without any personal insults. I know this is a heated debate, but cooler heads must prevail.
Knowing both of the parties, i stay neutral, but i'm sure in the end it will work out for both of you. Or so i hope so!
Knowing both of the parties, i stay neutral, but i'm sure in the end it will work out for both of you. Or so i hope so!
- Location
- The Big City
I second this.
- Location
- Brooklyn, NY
:backtotop thxs MM
ok, im out till morning, plz no1 call me a liar till i get back...thxs
Last edited:
Watching a fish dies sucks.
I'm here to post in support of a continuing open dialog between vendors and customers...IMO, it's growing pains.
It's been a while since I've been on the site. Although I have nothing specific to add to the situation, I just hope things are worked out between you two. Although Slama is taking his business elsewhere, it'll be wonderful if we could still maintain friendships as hobbyists, forgiving and forgetting unintentional bad business transactions.
I would hate to see our community grow at the cost of thinning out the strands of friendship that bonded us in the first place.
I'm here to post in support of a continuing open dialog between vendors and customers...IMO, it's growing pains.
It's been a while since I've been on the site. Although I have nothing specific to add to the situation, I just hope things are worked out between you two. Although Slama is taking his business elsewhere, it'll be wonderful if we could still maintain friendships as hobbyists, forgiving and forgetting unintentional bad business transactions.
I would hate to see our community grow at the cost of thinning out the strands of friendship that bonded us in the first place.
- Location
- The Big City
This is part of the problem, a vendor shouldn't be bring in a fish like this and if he does he should be letting people know that it's a hard fish to keep and it may die.
Now yes it is the responsibility of the buyer to do some research but a vendor on this board should be letting people know that the fish is hard to keep alive, instead of the standard it's very health and is eating like a pig. Just think if someone working at NW or FT sold a fish to someone on the board here, and didn't tell them that the fish was hard to keep alive. Everyone here would be in an outrage and then start to bad mouth the store. The people that sell on this board should be better than the LFS and On-line places and not out just to make a buck off people here.
nycitaliano9
Senior Member
- Location
- North Babylon exit 51 lie
Let's keep the conversation civil
Attachments
michael stern
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- new rochelle
For those of you wondering where this whole process went sour....
Slama's pm (yesterday, 1:04 pm)
i understand u have no responsibility in this instance...but lets make believe im a good customer, and that u "shipped" me the fish, and it was dead...according to ur "alive guarantee" u would replace no charge (except add'l shipping, im sure)
because michael, i wont be happy unless i get a replacement fish, u selling me a replacement @ cost im not thrilled with...2 days, eating, not eating, no matter....this fish could have been dying 3 weeks ago and still eating for 2 weeks for u, until stressed again.
I'm sure if we continue to work on this we could both come out of this on the plus side...i get my replacement, and i tell everyone how great your customer satisfaction is...lets not be penny wise dollar foolish.
I do appreciate your continued efforts michael....
My reply (yesterday 1:42 pm)
I have to say, I think you are being unreasonable. I am trying very hard to help you add, even though, as you yourself said, I bear no responsibility.
2 things I'd like to point out to you.
1) I am not offering you a replacement at cost, I'm offering it to you at a loss to offset any profit I made on the first.
2) comparing this situation to a DOA shipment is pointless. If I ship a fish and it is DOA, clearly the customer bears no responsibility, and I replace the fish at no charge, or refund the purchase price. Once in a customer's tank, it is not my responsibility.
Frankly, I think your suggestion that I should take the loss here to "buy" your positive feedback is offensive.
Let me know if you have any other thoughts. I really felt like I went way beyond "good customer service" here. Maybe you have another idea that would make more sense to both of us.
Slama's reply: (this is where he starts making bad assumptions)
lets talk math....i KNOW u get these fish @ $70/per, for watever reason u had a wrasse "sale" and reduced prices is ur own, so if my information is correct, u still "profited" $50 on this particular fish...in my view u would take a $20 loss on the replacement..now i kno that making all these assumtions could be considered out of line, its not my business...its just u don't **** where u sleep (and i don't believe u r, just an analogy) as far as wat u r calling "buy" a positive feedback, u should take the loss because i give u positive feedback all the time to any1 that asks, u should take the loss because we walked in the door and spent alot of money and u continue to sell and make significant profits from MR because of that constant feedback from myself and others who have done same AND u should take the loss because some customers deserve some extra considerations, like this situation.
u saw how i had to put something together to get this fish, so if i am being unreasonable i have reason...i want to continue to work to a solution....lets both sleep on this and u can pm me responce tomorow and ill have more time to think on a resolution
thxs
Slama's pm (yesterday, 1:04 pm)
i understand u have no responsibility in this instance...but lets make believe im a good customer, and that u "shipped" me the fish, and it was dead...according to ur "alive guarantee" u would replace no charge (except add'l shipping, im sure)
because michael, i wont be happy unless i get a replacement fish, u selling me a replacement @ cost im not thrilled with...2 days, eating, not eating, no matter....this fish could have been dying 3 weeks ago and still eating for 2 weeks for u, until stressed again.
I'm sure if we continue to work on this we could both come out of this on the plus side...i get my replacement, and i tell everyone how great your customer satisfaction is...lets not be penny wise dollar foolish.
I do appreciate your continued efforts michael....
My reply (yesterday 1:42 pm)
I have to say, I think you are being unreasonable. I am trying very hard to help you add, even though, as you yourself said, I bear no responsibility.
2 things I'd like to point out to you.
1) I am not offering you a replacement at cost, I'm offering it to you at a loss to offset any profit I made on the first.
2) comparing this situation to a DOA shipment is pointless. If I ship a fish and it is DOA, clearly the customer bears no responsibility, and I replace the fish at no charge, or refund the purchase price. Once in a customer's tank, it is not my responsibility.
Frankly, I think your suggestion that I should take the loss here to "buy" your positive feedback is offensive.
Let me know if you have any other thoughts. I really felt like I went way beyond "good customer service" here. Maybe you have another idea that would make more sense to both of us.
Slama's reply: (this is where he starts making bad assumptions)
lets talk math....i KNOW u get these fish @ $70/per, for watever reason u had a wrasse "sale" and reduced prices is ur own, so if my information is correct, u still "profited" $50 on this particular fish...in my view u would take a $20 loss on the replacement..now i kno that making all these assumtions could be considered out of line, its not my business...its just u don't **** where u sleep (and i don't believe u r, just an analogy) as far as wat u r calling "buy" a positive feedback, u should take the loss because i give u positive feedback all the time to any1 that asks, u should take the loss because we walked in the door and spent alot of money and u continue to sell and make significant profits from MR because of that constant feedback from myself and others who have done same AND u should take the loss because some customers deserve some extra considerations, like this situation.
u saw how i had to put something together to get this fish, so if i am being unreasonable i have reason...i want to continue to work to a solution....lets both sleep on this and u can pm me responce tomorow and ill have more time to think on a resolution
thxs
Last edited:
Absolutely Fish has credited me on a fish that was dead within 2 days after i brought in a water sample and the fish.
That being said, they had a pair of Flame Wrasses for $320. I got my pair from Michael Stern for $250 and they are much better looking than the Absolutely Fish pair i almost bought.
For those who don't know i had a pseudo absolutely harrassing the crap out of my flame pair i got from mike. It took me a week to catch that thing and get it out. The wrasses stayed in hiding for about 2 weeks before they started venturing out. But now they are doing excellent.
IMO, it takes pretty healthy fish to withstand a beating like my female flame took. Her tail fin is still healing.
I guess what i am trying to say is, I would rather Michael keep his low prices and continue to do business as he is doing. Let's be real here, you are not going to find a pair of hawaiian flames for $250 at any LFS, at least in NJ you are not.
That being said, they had a pair of Flame Wrasses for $320. I got my pair from Michael Stern for $250 and they are much better looking than the Absolutely Fish pair i almost bought.
For those who don't know i had a pseudo absolutely harrassing the crap out of my flame pair i got from mike. It took me a week to catch that thing and get it out. The wrasses stayed in hiding for about 2 weeks before they started venturing out. But now they are doing excellent.
IMO, it takes pretty healthy fish to withstand a beating like my female flame took. Her tail fin is still healing.
I guess what i am trying to say is, I would rather Michael keep his low prices and continue to do business as he is doing. Let's be real here, you are not going to find a pair of hawaiian flames for $250 at any LFS, at least in NJ you are not.
Slama and Stern I am going to close this thread. Please let me know if you guys object. I don't want this to turn into a vendor bashing thread. I happen to like our vendors and rarely shop elsewhere. Everyone shared their views.
Edit. I'm going to leave it open. Please no personal attacks. Lets discuss the issue and come to a resolution if possible
Edit. I'm going to leave it open. Please no personal attacks. Lets discuss the issue and come to a resolution if possible
More sound advice from Rich.
For the future benefit of all, perhaps the vendors that do business here on MR might take this opportunity to publish their policies on livestock... both shipped or picked up.
- Location
- Franklin Lakes, NJ
Excellent idea Kathy...
To take this one step further... maybe a sticky post at the top of each vendor's thread should be established detailing their policies. This should eliminate any further disputes between MR members and MR vendors and would be good for all involved in the community.
- Location
- Howell, NJ
mike are the fishies you bought from me still alive ?
and to make a long story short imma do business with liveaquaria.com only for fish.. actually placing a 200.00 order with them in a couple of days. just so much easier and no headaches involved.... 14 day guarantee and no fuss about it :biggrin:
http://liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=23&ref=3319&subref=AL
What a policy.... and they dont charge a fortune for there fish either..
and to make a long story short imma do business with liveaquaria.com only for fish.. actually placing a 200.00 order with them in a couple of days. just so much easier and no headaches involved.... 14 day guarantee and no fuss about it :biggrin:
http://liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=23&ref=3319&subref=AL
What a policy.... and they dont charge a fortune for there fish either..
:duh: It's been established that LFS/local vendors' policies (if there is one) don't typically match the online policies.
- Status
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
