• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

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Anonymous

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Thank you Steve,

I seen that you are coming down to Florida for some Tarpon fishing, on light takle of course.
July 1 is the opening of scalloping season. I can tell of some hot areas in the Northen part of the state.
If you are Driving down let me know I live 5 miles above Florida a few mile away from I75.
 

Maquaman

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Fishaholic - I try!

I think you are selling yourself a bit short by saying that commenting on this issue would make you a fraud. You are speaking from a position of being in a position of being able to say what can happen under the right circumstances.

If you subscribe to the theory that marine aquariums (and aquarists) can aid in the education, research and awareness of the public to the plight of reefs anywhere in the world then events that threaten this are things that should be stopped.

If wild caught corals are banned in our country then the hobby will slowly disappear over here. We won't be able to have the battle about captive breeding cause the war will have already been lost.

Any assistance that you guys could provide would be more than welcome.
 

angel101

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One of the of the greatest sins committed by some doctrinaire environmentalists is that of alienation of the public from nature. If people cannot interact with nature they will not take care of it! The proposed ban is a classic example of alienation. All the aquarists who I know in this country, care deeply about the well being of the GBR. We care because it is in our interest to care. Im a flyfisherman and I am also deeply committed to the environmental threats posed to our trout streams. I support and follow size and catch limits. I do so because of my interaction with the environment at this level. Why are salmon runs declining in Britain? Why can't the interest groups over there raise sufficient funds for habitat restoration and restocking? Because you have to pay a weeks average salary to fish for them and the general public do not care!! They are alienated. They have no avenue to enjoy this wonderful aspect of the natural world and they are not motivated. Why should they support an aspect of their natural world that can only be enjoyed by the select few. This is the great beauty of our hobby,in that we bring a small slice of the reef into our homes and we introduce the public to its wonder. We help to educate people and to motivate them into realising that it is something worth preserving. The view that the environment is too precious to be touched, walked on or experienced is the real path to the destruction of our reefs. As long as it is managed in a sensible manner and not abused.

[ June 17, 2001: Message edited by: angel101 ]
 

matt_rains

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Hi Guys, i have been reading this thread with interest and i thought it was about time for me to comment.

While i do not support the current proposal to stop coral harvesting in Australia i do believe it is in the best interest of the global community to show leadership in this area in much the same way we have already. We have established and succeeded in managing one of the worlds most diverse, unknown and beautiful resource in the world.

I feel that if the government was truly interesting in saving (converving) our reefs it should implement better management for coral harvesting, offer startup fventures for coral farming and tarif wild collection of corals (to support the startup coral farms). Not to mention a phased plan for coral collectors and their businesses.

All of this takes time and i think a 5 to 10 year plan would be a good start.

Matt
 

gazpep

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Matt,

The problem is all we're facing is a prohibition, not any plan as such.

If there is a "plan" then we're yet to see it.

Gary
 

DBW

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Matt, and the coral harvesters have actually been formulating such a plan. They were talking with the GBRMPA, CRC Reef, AIMS etc to ensure that it was in move in the right direction. And from what I have seen of it, it is a move in the positive direction for all involved. Then Sen. Hill comes out with this proposal, without consultation of anyone involved or what the actual consequences are or what is happening currently.
 

Bondy

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Matt I don't believe coral harvesting would be viable here anyway, we don't have the market, and we aren't allowed to import/export corals and inverts to create a bigger market. I am definatly not advocating that we create a larger market either.

Bondy
 

loosbrew

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ok, heres what i think, as if anyone still reads my posts
icon_smile.gif

i don think the hobby should be banned. period. i do think that collection of wild animals for decorative purposes should be. period. the difference? it should be clear. a propagated aquarium. "But noooo, what about the diversity in our LR?? or..what about the livelyhood of the Fiji workers?" "Well the unfortunate truth is that many island natives will do anything for the all mighty dollar. especially if theres a white boy giveing it to them along with some nice T Shirts and cigarettes. look at what tourism does to a tropical island. is it thier fault that what they do is affected the natural balance of the reefs? yes and no. It isnt thier fault for being introduced to this trade. it isnt thier fault for wanting to provide for thier families the best they can. it is our fault for exploiting such animals for decorative purposes. it is our fault for wanting to make money off of this exploitation.
i dont claim that the hobby is the end of the reefs. it isnt in my eyes. it will help in the future. but right now, WE DONT NEED WILD ANIMALS TO ENTERTAIN US ANY LONGER!! we have plenty of resources available to us that will allow us to grow our own corals. plenty of vendors online who will sell you aquacultured rock. plenty of people who will exploit this ban and start thier own aquacultured rock farms. people really should start looking at what they are doing and realize that the concepts of sustainable resources needs to be reevaluated. we have proven many many times that nothing can last forever and we usualy know this by pushing the limits of our resources. Again i am not saying that the hobby holds a huge hand in the destruction of our reefs, but it could start a good domino effect up to the more important issues, Tank liners, offshore run offs etc...its the same as protecting a species just to save its environment...different ways of getting to the same effect.

Luis
 

Kalkbreath

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Lets see, The alternatives to coral harvesting are what again?.... Blasting the reef with dynamite fishing,.... using the reef as fill to make an Air port for tourism? I still tend to think harvesting is the better realistic protection.(The vast majority of coral on any reef is brown and not even worth taking) Too bad there is no market(Hobby) for Leaves and branch tips, The Rainforrests might actually have a chance if there was...Imagine how great it would be if there was an alternative for the Brazilian people other then fellswooping and destroying their forrest ..? Good thing the reefs have us( this hobby) to bring about public awareness about the animals that live there... Can the average American pick out three trees that live only in a rainforrest...?( Point) What are the chances that same American could pickout three animals that only live on a coral reef...?(Much better), heck Im not shure I could tell you three trees that are only found in a rainforrest,(and Im in theHorticulture Bus.) Without this hobby the reefs would lose their only hope.( we are the onlyone that can keep the native people from exploiting them further... The number of real threats to the reefs will become larger not lesser without this hobby...
 
A

Anonymous

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Although some of us have not always agreed on everything on this thread I think we all learned from each other and learned something about each other.

I welcome all the people who have stopped by from Reefing The Australian Way and hopefully will see them posting on other threads.

I do not think there is anything constructive I have to offer this discussion.
I do hope that you all defeat this ban, it is inappropriate at this time.

Take Care and Happy Reefing.
 

Maquaman

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Fishaholic - thanks for the welcome... Hopefully I'll be back at some stage down the track when I get a bit more time on my hands. There is a lot going on down here right now!

David
 

MaryHM

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I have already made my opinions on the Australian ban clear, and hope that everyone understands my position. If you don't, please don't hesitate to contact me! I realize that it is sometimes difficult for people who are not involved in the actually industry and politics surrounding the industry to understand all of the "details", and I am always more than happy to explain my position and reasoning.

I do feel the need to defend myself somewhat against a couple of comments Fishaholic made. I do a lot of work for this industry/hobby, and don't want people to be misled about my intentions by reading a post from someone who "assumes" what my role is.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
The people who think they ae in a leadership role in this hobby ie Mary and DBW have not at any time that I can find in the searchable data base advocated anyone to use aquacultered rock or tank raised fish.

I don't "think" I'm in a leadership role. I am. That may sound a little arrogant, but I am the ONLY wholesaler in the country who is serving on the board of directors for both the Marine Aquarium Council (www.aquariumcouncil.org) and the American Marinelife Dealers Association (www.amdareef.com). Both of these organizations are working diligently to reform the industry and bring about change- they each go about it in different ways, but share the same goal. I am recognized internationally as a proponent for industry reform, and work with many organizations to help bring about change. I am currently setting up the first coral farm in the United States that will utilize natural sunlight and seawater- I think that fact speaks for itself as to my opinions on aquaculture. I do not answer every hobbyist post on this board, but I do feel that if someone conducts a search of my previous posts they will find that I always advocate responsible and ethical reefkeeping.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR> Without removing one fish or coral these reefs are maintained and a ban on harvesting has been in place for all the major reefs in the keys for a barrier of 300 yards all the way around.

Hmmmmm I wonder why Mary is not trying to have this ban lifted?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't work on changing existing legislation, because that requires an immense amount of time, money, and lawyers that I just don't have. I do work on stopping sloppy legislation before it gets made into law. This is where "we the people" are most effective. The most recent example is my fight against the banning of the entire genus of Caulerpa in California. I also feel that the proposed Australian ban is sloppy legislation, and I will do my best to stop it.

Bottom line, if anyone has any doubt about my credentials or opinions on the industry/hobby, I invite you to visit my website at www.reefsource.com or contact me directly.

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: MaryHM ]
 

loosbrew

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i find it odd that you support ethical reefkreeping but in your "See it before you buy!" section you list a goniopora. i would question your role as a "leader" in ethical reefkeeping.

just an observation.

luis

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: loosbrew ]
 

matt_rains

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I think I should clarify my post. I think Hill's proposal is a knee jerk reaction. His decision is uneducated and uninformed and I hope this comes to light. We don't need that type of person in such a position of power in our country. Obviously his advisors have failed him and the public they serve.

But there is always room for improvement. Especially in the management of our natural resources. This however does not constitute a total ban that I believe is actually counter productive to research, education and the long-term viability of our reefs.

I do believe that if we survive this then we will all be thinking a bit harder about the future direction of our hobby. But that doesn't mean we haven’t been already. Many of the members of RTAW have been fundamental in the establishment of our current ethics and practices. Nobody more so than Dallas.

If this ban goes ahead it will be the end of reef keeping in Australia.

As amature hobbyists we are quite a together bunch, many quite skilled and most quite responsible. It is a shame that Hill does not recognise this, the outstanding practices already in place on the GBR or the volumes of supporting scientific evidence to support sustainable harvesting.

Not to mention the fact that hill is going to put 35 business out of work and countless more down the chain. I simply cannot believe this will be allowed to happen.

I only hope that little Johny Howard finds out and puts a stop to it.

To quote a famous sci-fi.. "Johny, your our only hope.."

Matt
 

MaryHM

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Loosbrew, concerning the Goniopora you mention, also "observe" that many reefkeepers are able to keep Goniopora for extended amounts of time (certain species do quite well in captivity), that I have information concerning their survival rates in my database at http://www.reefsource.com/Database/flowerpot.htm, and that I am organizing a research project with Dr. Ron Shimek and the Marine Aquarium Societies of North America (www.masna.org) that will focus on various techniques that may help Goniopora survival rates. If you are interested in participating in this research, please let me know.
 

naesco

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Mary
I understand the research issue.
This is the question
Do you think this coral should be available to LFS for sale to the general public at this time?
 
A

Anonymous

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Darn I wanted to go away on a positive note but it would seem I have to carify.

MARYHM you are so full of crap

I searched your old posts NONE of them did you EVER advise anyone to seek aquacultered rock or tank raised fish.

As a matter of fact in one post that you asked people what they would like to see in a LFS a gentleman specificly said " tank raised fish and more tank propagated coral. You did not even have the leadership to answer this gentleman on your own topic after hitting the nail right on the head.

You are not fooling anyone SHOW ME ONE POST, JUST ONE.

If you are leading(self proclaimed) who the heck is following?

All the people that do so much to help out fellow reefers and 90% of your posts are about yourself Do you think you could be any more self absorbed?

You have proven you know how to post a link SHOW ME ONE POST, thats all one post where you have advised anyone to use aquacultered rock or tank raised fish.

Not asking you to answer every post on this board but if you are the proclaimed leader of reefs Then put up or shut up, show just one post because I can not find it and I have looked three times now.
 

MaryHM

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Naesco,

The short answer to your question is "Yes". The reasoning behind it is as follows: 10 years ago, when I was in retail, sps corals were considered impossible to keep- except by the most elite "professional" hobbyists. For this reason, I refused to carry them in my store. I would cringe when I would go into other stores and see the pretty sps lined up- destined for the trash can. Luckily though, these retailers were not as short-sighted as I was (or more likely they just wanted to make a buck
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), because the very fact that these corals WERE available on a wide basis led to the advances within the hobby communitythat brought about the knowledge and technology to make the keeping of sps in an aquarium a reality. 10 years ago, if you had told me that sps corals would be thriving in home systems...not just thriving, but growing...I would have said you were crazy!
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Did sps corals die during our quest for the "sps holy grail"? Yep. But in the long run, I think it was worth it. Same goes for Goniopora. But instead of just letting it be a free for all, with no organized research being conducted, I think that the availability should go hand in hand with research. Without the availability, there is no research- and trial and error are the basis of research. I think we will unlock the key to Goniopora within 5 years. Then we'll all be trading our Goniopora frags
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Another point- not all species of Goniopora are difficult to keep. Many of them thrive in aquariums. G. stokesi (I think) is the green variety that comes out of Indonesia and is the 3rd most imported coral. That is the one people have problems with, and that is the one I'm going to focus on in my research.

Fishaholic:
In a forum such as this, it is sometimes impossible to get your point across to people no matter how many times/ways you try...so this will be my last word to "defend myself" against you.
First off, in response to you saying that my last post was "crap", I never once stated that I specifically advised people to purchase aquacultured corals/rock. I stated that my posts encourage ethical reefkeeping. Maybe your definition of ethical and mine are two different things, and that's where we're having a conflict.
When you refer to the post about "What you want in a LFS"....that was not a "discussion" post, and I stated that a few times in the thread. It was a place for hobbyists to list what they wanted so I could write an article for the AMDA newsletter using their suggestions.

Self absorbed? I don't think so. Because I am an importer/wholesaler and have been out of the "hobby" for a few years, I leave answering of "general question" posts to the true hobbyists on the board. I feel they have a much better grasp on the long term care of the animals than I do, since I now focus more on import and shipping. Times have changed a lot since I was a hobbyist, and a lot of my knowledge is out of date. Just as most of the hobbyist's posts on this board revolve around what they are doing (participating in the hobby), my posts tend to revolve around what I am doing (working toward industry reform, etc...). If posting about the things you have knowledge about/are working on/etc... is being self absorbed, then everyone who posts on here is self absorbed. My primary goal on the discussion boards is to give hobbyists a better understanding of how the industry works- very few understand it and I think it is extremely important to educate them in the way it works to they can be equipped with the knowledge to make good decisions like demanded drug free fish, sustainably harvested/aquacultured corals, etc...

I hope this last post clarifies my point. If not, then at least I tried. Can't please everyone!
icon_smile.gif
 

loosbrew

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MaryH,
your post leads me to further believe that you, more so than other aquarists(?), should not be allowed to import goniopora.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I am an importer/wholesaler and have been out of the "hobby" for a few years, I leave answering of "general question" posts to the true hobbyists on the board. I feel they have a much better grasp on the long term care of the animals than I do, since I now focus more on import and shipping .Times have changed a lot since I was a hobbyist, and a lot of my knowledge is out of date

So you think your outdated knowledge will help people better understand the captive requirements of goniopora? why dont you focus more on the propagation of the thriving captive population rather than impedeing the situation by keeping wild specimens available. i think your reasoning is flawed. to encourage such activities, the collection of such a coral, is in my opinion very contradictory to your statements as being a leader in the industry. You make a living off of the hobby. wether you work else where to make ends meet is a different story. the fact of the matter is, you import and ship wild coral to and fro, and get paid to do it. in my eyes, this constitutes a part of the problem.

Luis
 

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