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Anonymous

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Mark,
I'm sure I'm just being ignorant here, but what part of the Euroreef exactly takes so long to make? Is it the neck that joins the wide bottom to the riser tube? It looks to me like the rest of it is basically stock PVC pieces and standard sized acrylic tubing. Not doubting your experience or knowledge, just genuinely curious.
Matt
 

Jime

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I meant magnets not batteries. And I agree it probably doesn't take long to build an ECO but I'm not sure if it only takes a couple of hours. Also Euroreef has most of their models in stock and ready for shipping. Check there retail site owned and operated by Euroreef.

http://www.h2otropicals.com/
 

reefsRcool

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hey jime, maybee i missed it somwhere back around page four or whatever, but what exactly is the reason behind your constant and annoying support of this product? i remember you saying you didn't work there but there HAS to be some explination. why man why? i just don't get it.
 

Jime

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what exactly is the reason behind your constant and annoying support of this product?

Just trying to provide an opposing view on this product. People have attacked every nuance of this company and it's policy. I try to point out that most companies even a well respected company like Euro-Reef can take a few weeks to get product out to the customer. The articles I have read suggest that magnitism has effect on water and even the critics have admitted as much (see GreshamH's post on page 8 ). The article posted on the last page about Magnetic Water Treatment suggests that "reasonable evidence for an effect is provided." I'm sorry that you find my support of this product annoying but as others have pointed out earlier the "stop watching this topic" button is on the left bottom of the page, all you have to do is push it. I say that MattH has done what I think any responsible critic should do, buy one and test it for yourself. I look forward to reading his testing prcedures and the results.

Why allow yourself to get worked up and annoyed over this debate?
 

Reef Guy11

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Hey everyone,

Thanks for all the Reply's. Yes let us know how it works out. For now lets Close this Issue. I never knew this would stir up so much. :D
 

Bone

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Finally, a magnetic device that makes my aquarium better. Magnets are the best! WHO IS THE MARKETING GENIUS THAT THOUGHT OF THIS? :roll:
 

Bone

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I wish I thought of this. If enough ppl buy one for testing and enough ppl think this might work, you will make a nice profit. It's easy and inexpensive to push stuff out on the internet. What better venue than a reef website? Congrats!
 

dizzy

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Bone":1ruqsw6v said:
Finally, a magnetic device that makes my aquarium better. Magnets are the best! WHO IS THE MARKETING GENIUS THAT THOUGHT OF THIS? :roll:

Bone,
I am using a set of cleaning magnets attached to a linear motion lead screw with limit switches that change direction, to automatically clean my rotating aquarium and the results are almost unbeliveable. The glass stays perfectly clean on the 44.5" diameter 300-gallon aquarium. I have been a little lazy on taking the acrylic safe pad that is inside of the inner magnet out for cleaning and the tank continues to stay spotlessly clean. The live rocks and fake rockwork inside the tank are covered in coraline algae, yet not a speck forms on the acrylic cylinder walls. I'm a born skeptic, but I am not totally convinced magnets have no magic. Only those who try something have the right to judge it.
 
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Anonymous

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How do you know thems fightin' words if you haven't tried them?

:mrgreen:
 

Jime

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Only those who try something have the right to judge it.

Sounds a lot like

I say that MattH has done what I think any responsible critic should do, buy one and test it for yourself.

and

would I say it doesn't work and is "total snake oil", not without testing it for myself and offering the proof to back my claim.
 

Bone

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dizzy":1z3lf9pe said:
Bone":1z3lf9pe said:
Finally, a magnetic device that makes my aquarium better. Magnets are the best! WHO IS THE MARKETING GENIUS THAT THOUGHT OF THIS? :roll:

Bone,
I am using a set of cleaning magnets attached to a linear motion lead screw with limit switches that change direction, to automatically clean my rotating aquarium and the results are almost unbeliveable. The glass stays perfectly clean on the 44.5" diameter 300-gallon aquarium. I have been a little lazy on taking the acrylic safe pad that is inside of the inner magnet out for cleaning and the tank continues to stay spotlessly clean. The live rocks and fake rockwork inside the tank are covered in coraline algae, yet not a speck forms on the acrylic cylinder walls. I'm a born skeptic, but I am not totally convinced magnets have no magic. Only those who try something have the right to judge it.

What a swell idea. Almost unbelievable indeed. I'd love to see a photo. But what in blazes does this have to do with the discussion?

As for your last comment, of course, we all have the right to judge anything whenever we want.
 

dizzy

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John_Brandt said:
]Magnetic Water and Fuel Treatment: Myth, Magic, or Mainstream Science?
by Mike R. Powell.

Claimed Benefits and Effects
Magnetic water treatment devices consist of one or more magnets, which are clamped onto or installed inside the incoming residential water supply line.

Water Hardness
Water "hardness" is a measure of dissolved mineral content. The most common hardness minerals are carbonates and sulfates of magnesium and calcium. Hard water is often undesirable because the dissolved minerals can form scale. Scale is simply the solid phase of the dissolved minerals.

Magnetic Water Treatment
Note that only the "effective" or "subjective" hardness is claimed to be reduced through magnetic treatment. No magnesium or calcium is removed from the water by magnetic treatment. Instead, the claim is that the magnetic field decreases the tendency of the dissolved minerals to form scale.

The important question here, though, is whether magnetic water treatment works. .

More than one hundred relevant articles and reports are available in the open literature, so clearly magnetic water treatment has received some attention from the scientific community (e.g., see reference list in Duffy 1977). . In many cases, researchers report finding no significant magnetic treatment effect. In other cases, however, reasonable evidence for an effect is provided.

Liburkin et al. (1986) found that magnetic treatment affected the structure of gypsum (calcium sulfate). Gypsum particles formed in magnetically treated water were found to be larger and "more regularly oriented" than those formed in ordinary water. Similarly, Kronenberg (1985) reported that magnetic treatment changed the mode of calcium carbonate precipitation such that circular disc-shaped particles are formed rather than the dendritic (branching or tree-like) particles observed in nontreated water. Others (e.g., Chechel and Annenkova 1972; Martynova et al. 1967) also have found that magnetic treatment affects the structure of subsequently precipitated solids. Because scale formation involves precipitation and crystallization, these studies imply that magnetic water treatment is likely to have an effect on the formation of scale. .

Among those who report some type of direct magnetic-water-treatment effect, a consensus seems to be emerging that the effect results from the interaction of the applied magnetic field with surface charges of suspended particles (Donaldson 1988; Lipus et al. 1994). Krylov et al. (1985) found that the electrical charges on calcium carbonate particles are significantly affected by the application of a magnetic field. Further, the magnitude of the change in particle charge increased as the strength of the applied magnetic field increased.

Gehr et al. (1995) found that magnetic treatment affects the quantity of suspended and dissolved calcium sulfate. A very strong magnetic field (47,500 gauss) generated by a nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer was used to test identical calcium sulfate suspensions with very high hardness (1,700 ppm on a CaCO3 basis). Two minutes of magnetic treatment decreased the dissolved calcium concentration by about 10 percent. The magnetic field also decreased the average particle charge by about 23 percent. These results, along with those of many others (e.g., Parsons et al. 1997; crap and crap 1997), imply that application of a magnetic field can affect the dissolution and crystallization of at least some compounds.

Much of the available laboratory test data imply that magnetic water treatment devices are largely ineffective, yet reports of positive results in industrial settings persist (e.g., Spear 1992; Donaldson 1988). The contradictory reports imply that if a magnetic water treatment effect for scale prevention exists, then it only is effective under some of the conditions encountered in industry. At present, there does not seem to be a defensible guideline for determining when the desired effect can be expected and when it cannot.

Is there a beneficial effect of magnetic water treatment? Perhaps.

Bone I greatly edited the Mike Powell article that was posted by John Brandt on page 10. While the entire article raised some serious questions about the effectiveness of some magnet products, the above quotes are what got my attention. I believe it is possible that the magnets that I am using to clean the acrylic cylinder may be helping to prevent the formation of scale and thus allowing the inner pad to become much more efficient. All I know is the automatic cleaning system I have on the 300 tank works much better than I ever dreamed it would. I will edit this post when I get to the store and attach a picture. My purpose in posting was to neither support or attack Ecoaqualizer's claims. (Although I am testing their product. Thanks Carl) Skepticism comes easy for me, but I still think you should test something before you pass final judgement.

Marc Weiss once posted on the AMDA forum an interesting statement. He said they hired a researcher to see why people were knocking their products. What they learned was that most of the people who were running them down had never actually even tried the products themselves. I believe it.
 
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dizzy":2erewxs3 said:
Marc Weiss once posted on the AMDA forum an interesting statement. He said they hired a researcher to see why people were knocking their products. What they learned was that most of the people who were running them down had never actually even tried the products themselves. I believe it.[/b]

What researcher, did he post the data, and did he post a link to the research report? It is really easy to say whatever you want to say about anything, but much harder to back it up.

In my reading oline most of the people posting about Marc Weiss products have used them. I have. They really seem to do nothing.

And and, most don't necessarily knock his products, rather knock his 'miracle' advertising claims and lack of an ingredients list. Such claims and omissions make any product look 'fishy'.

Again, you don't need to use a product to have an informed opinion on its abliity to do what it claims to do. I don't need to use any of the penis enlargment products, pills or services to 'know' that they are bunk. Read the research, read the reports, and you too can come to an informed conclusion without actually using the product.
Again, scam companies are counting on people buying it due to the lure of a money back gurantee, because they know most people simply never ask for their money back even if they are dissatisfied with the product.


I can see no reason to believe your cleaning magnets actually are keeping your acrylic clean because of magnetism. It seems much more likely it is their constant use that prevents coraline from getting ahold on the surface that is being scrubbed often.
 

dizzy

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JeremyR":1pwtqadw said:
Do you like marc weiss products too dizzy? Am I gonna have to knock some sense into you at macna? :P

Jeremy is that what you got out of my post? I thought by now you would have realized I use ambiguity to keep myself out of trouble. :wink:
 

dizzy

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JeremyR":3oidpk39 said:
So how do you really feel? Dizzy? Heh.

Pretty good most days, but I am starting to get a little stiff in the joints. Thanks for asking. I see your getting the hang of the ambiguity thing. :wink:
 

Bone

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dizzy":1zfvy5du said:
JeremyR":1zfvy5du said:
Do you like marc weiss products too dizzy? Am I gonna have to knock some sense into you at macna? :P

Jeremy is that what you got out of my post? I thought by now you would have realized I use ambiguity to keep myself out of trouble. :wink:

...And so with the Eco-Aqualizer.

Somehow I had a feeling you had one of these devices. Are you selling them too?

When you are done testing the Eco-Aqualizer you can try prayer. Some people say it works wonders for their tank. I'm having a tough time proving it's not possible.
 

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