Has anyone tried or heard of Eco Aqualizer??

[John_Brandt]

Alex Chiu says, "Many people have scorned and laughed at the persons below. But one day, they were all proven to be correct: Edison - Tesla - Einstein."

I think all three of these guys had thought things that were never shown to be correct. And the big things that they were correct about were known immediately (well maybe General Relativity Theory took some time). But all three certainly thought things that were, and still are, laughable.

 

[Glenn UK]

I have the pleasure of joining the debate afresh, I have to read the whole thread now, before i go do this is lifer an eco a reprasentative?

If he is can he tell me has it been tried tested and the paper published and peer reviewed save my hunting for the next millenia?

Or is it snake oil in a different skin?

No offence

Glenn

Hmm just as i thought its snake oil pure and simple, the evidence of this is in the lack of evidence offered by lifer and others.

If it works and you dont know how you can still prove it. Proving something doesnt happen on the other hand is often very difficult.

 

[Anonymous]

I work for ECO-Aqualizer. I joined RDO to chat with fellow reefers. I used to be on here as "caecosystems" a while back but made this as my new name. I did not come on here to have anything to do with ECO. I am a hobbyist such as you guys are. I have over twelve years and counting of proffesional aquarium experience. Not that this neccesarily means anything. It is more important what you do in this time then the time itself.
If you don't believe that I did not intend to say anything about ECO, look at all my posts. I am not a con. I sent Righty and Leopard shark an e-mail because I assumed that they were administrators of some kind. I did not want them to talk about ECO on RDO, I just wanted to share information with them about my product. I apologize for permeating the sanctity of Righty's personal space in my decision to contact him, however that is what e-mail is for. I believe that our product is extremely beneficial to all aquarists and was sharing it with people that I thought would check in to it. Righty says some very critical things about a product that he has not even tried, but honestly, we are not to concerned about that. If we can all remember, some plant company tried to sue some people a while back on a plant forum for talking badly about his company. We do not WANT to do this because 1. we believe in the First Amendmant and 2. We are hobbyists too and do not want to tell other hobbysits what they can and cannot say. I implore the RDO admin to monitor the things that the volunteers say a bit though. I feel that no one said anything out of bounds except for Righty's very damning statements such as "It is BS! Do not buy it!". Again, this is not a threat. Just advice. I did not want anyone on RDO to know that I work for ECO because I just wanted to get on and help people out. I am used to doing this in all my work experience and was trying to do it again. Now that you all know, maybe I should leave. If RDO did not mind, I could possibly try to answer questions as best I could. I would ask Sam Gamble (who works for us) and Nelson Herwig ( who does not work for us) to help me answer the questions. If RDO allows me to do this, please keep in mind that I am very busy and cannot answer the questions immediately. I would give it my best shot though. Thank you everyone who takes the time to read this lengthy e-mail. Ciao.....Ben Johnson

you'ld have known if ya bothered to read first, hehe



and of course it's snake oil

 

[Anonymous]

I did not want anyone on RDO to know that I work for ECO because I just wanted to get on and help people out.

are you sure it wasn't to sniff out a lawsuit attempt possibility ?

as the one solely responsible for this post, you could come after me instead, hehe i dare ya

better check my credit rating and financial statements first, lol.



all of your contentions about the effects of magnetism are ludicrous, science still can't define/explain exactly what magnetism IS, let alone the mechanisms by which it may or may not affect most things

you have presented NO scientifically sound data or explanation that's independantly repeatable or verifiable yet, as you should be able to do

until then, yer a snake oil salesman :?

that's not so bad, though, it may make ya rich anyway-it works for others all the time

whatever ya THINK ya MAY lose from a negative opinion on an internet bulletin board, you'll make up for by a factor of two, anyway


so stop frettin so much

I did not come on here to have anything to do with ECO.

then why was the first sentence stating otherwise ? :wink:


are you having difficulty distinguishing between your opinion, and your company's ?

If we can all remember, some plant company tried to sue some people a while back on a plant forum for talking badly about his company. We do not WANT to do this because 1. we believe in the First Amendmant and 2. We are hobbyists too and do not want to tell other hobbysits what they can and cannot say. I implore the RDO admin to monitor the things that the volunteers say a bit though. I feel that no one said anything out of bounds except for Righty's very damning statements such as "It is BS! Do not buy it!". Again, this is not a threat. Just advice. I did not want anyone on RDO to know that I work for ECO because I just wanted to get on and help people out. I am used to doing this in all my work experience and was trying to do it again.

no need to bold anything, this entire quote is a veiled (poorly) threat at a malicious and frivolous lawsuit against those excersizing the very free speech rights you quote for your own defense

1. we believe in the First Amendmant and 2. We are hobbyists too and do not want to tell other hobbysits what they can and cannot say.

i don't need to believe in the first ammendment, i know it exists for a fact

you cannot tell other hobbyists what they can or cannot say, OR publish, regardless of whether YOU want to,or not


geese :roll:

 

[Len]

Vitz (et al), tone it down a bit. We can discuss issues without resorting to name-calling and being abrasive.

 

[Anonymous]

i didn't think i was name calling, or being abrasive :?

but i can certainly tone it down

you're correct, - i should deal with any perceptions of an outside party threatening my civil liberties and right to inform myself as a consumer (as i've interpreted their posts) via a venue other than this bb, it's not appropriate for these forums

my apologies

 

[Tackett]

this is officially the most mind boggling thread ive ever read. interesting though.

 

[Money Pit]

And the big things that they were correct about were known immediately (well maybe General Relativity Theory took some time).

The use of Asprin comes to mind. Discovered in 1859, it took over 100 years for someone to figure out how it actually works. John Vane was awarded both a Nobel prize and a knighthood for his research.

...science still can't define/explain exactly what magnetism IS, let alone the mechanisms by which it may or may not affect most things

Is your opinion based on your knowledge of magnetism or your lack of knowledge?

you have presented NO scientifically sound data or explanation that's independantly repeatable or verifiable yet, as you should be able to do

Either the effects of magnetism can be proved employing the methodology of science or it can't, make up your mind.

 

[Anonymous]

Science, science, science. Crick would be rolling over in his grave.

Here's a quote from the splash page of the snake oil site . . .

ECO-Aqualizer uses PATENTED negative ionic energy provided by a proprietary blend of basic electromagnetic physics combined with NASA’s space age far infrared radiation

This is so funny, I actually LOL for the first time in a long time.

1. Can the ECO-A person please provide the patent number? If you don't have that, just give me the company name, the inventor's name, or the serial number of the application. I did a quick search and couldn't find anything. You did mean a US Patent, right?

2. As a patent lawyer, I'm very impressed that you were able to get a patent using a "proprietary blend." I guess I need to go reread some cases. As I understand the law, one needs to disclose what one's invention is before a patent will be issued. That is, no "proprietary" allowed at all. The deal is, you tell the world what your invention is so they can do it, and you get 20 years to monopolize it. No disclosure, no deal.

3. How is far infrared radiation "space age?" Far infrared radiation has been around forever. Also, the space age began in the 60s, so I'm not so impressed by "space age" anymore. Heck, "cellular phone age" would be more impressive.

4. How do you "blend" radiation and basic physics? Do you use a beaker and a stir bar? What temp?

5. As for the Eco A reps implied lawsuit threat. is the represtative aware that there are a whole bunch of federal laws dealing with the use of false and misleading information in marketing? You may want to look into that, in addition to the plant case to which you referred.


6. Really, to those who want to buy it, fine. Have a blast. Some people wear magnets, hold pyramids, etc.. Whatever floats the boat in your reef tank..

:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

And the big things that they were correct about were known immediately (well maybe General Relativity Theory took some time).

The use of Asprin comes to mind. Discovered in 1859, it took over 100 years for someone to figure out how it actually works. John Vane was awarded both a Nobel prize and a knighthood for his research.

...science still can't define/explain exactly what magnetism IS, let alone the mechanisms by which it may or may not affect most things

Is your opinion based on your knowledge of magnetism or your lack of knowledge?

you have presented NO scientifically sound data or explanation that's independantly repeatable or verifiable yet, as you should be able to do

Either the effects of magnetism can be proved employing the methodology of science or it can't, make up your mind.

if you quote more than one person in a reply couldja please point out whose quote goes to whom?

Is your opinion based on your knowledge of magnetism or your lack of knowledge?

since you can't know everything about anything, all opinions are based on both 8) . being able to cause and use something doesn't mean we understand exactly what it is. do you think we know and can truly define 'gravity' ? how does magnetism work ? (don't tell me what it does )

where's the data ?

i wasn't aware that an effect can be patentable, and i can also think of instances where independent methods can reach the identical effect :wink:


one of the first giveaways about the strength of an 'adversial offense' are the tactics used to defend it

when the tactic is not one of factual backing, but of hinting at smokescreens of certain actions to direct the discussion away from that demand, it becomes fairly apparent why immediately

either ya got something and can prove it, or ya don't

proving it doesn't damage you in any way



not enough red flags here for you to even consider being skeptical first ? or am i to understand that you believe this 'aqualizer' 'aqualizes' ?can you tell me what leads you to believe that it does? i'm more than willing to listen

 

[Mouse]

Whered that other eco-aqualizer test go, the guy with the 300g tank. Someone bump it. :wink:

 

[HClH2OFish]

Gah! Signed up on 2 other fish boards and got a freakin SPAM from ECOAqualizer!!!

Just on a lark I decided to see what they have on their site....guess they are tracking their criticisms on the boards from this 'testimonial' they have up..

"I purchased your unit after I had read some untested threads on some forums. I was not expecting much but I felt it my duty to test it out for myself. I have a 120 gallon reef tank which has been doing quite well except for a slight nuisance algae problem. When I got the ECO-Aqualizer, I hooked it up immediately. I was due for a water change but I decided to see if your product could perform as you promise in your ads. To my surprise, my water was much clearer and I have experienced less algae on the glass then before. Also my skimmer had gone crazy and I had to clean it right away. The skimmate was a different color then usual, don't know what the deal is but I was admittedly amazed. Great product."


LOL....god I hate how people can lie/cheat/steal and make a business out of it...

Just my opinion...it reflects in no way the opinion of any member of this board or it's moderators. So neener....

 

[kim]

I think all three of these guys had thought things that were never shown to be correct. And the big things that they were correct about were known immediately (well maybe General Relativity Theory took some time). But all three certainly thought things that were, and still are, laughable.

Really ?

GRT is tough....beyond me (and I have a DPhil...). But these guys did not do stuff that is laughable. That is what I do. Not them.

kim

 

[tazdevil]

Maybe someone should remind them of the FTC's idea about these devices, and the enforcement they can employ (although in this case it would be tougher, as they are not claiming to cure cancer/arthritis/whatever other claims have been made in humans as the other products the FTC has delt with).

 

[bonejob]

I think all three of these guys had thought things that were never shown to be correct. And the big things that they were correct about were known immediately (well maybe General Relativity Theory took some time). But all three certainly thought things that were, and still are, laughable.

Really ?

GRT is tough....beyond me (and I have a DPhil...). But these guys did not do stuff that is laughable. That is what I do. Not them.

kim

Actually, Tesla did do some stuff that was pretty laughable. Despite his good work, history largely has judged him a crackpot for his work on "anti-gravity." And after all this time we still have to ignite thousands of tons of highly toxic and volatile chemical fuel just to throw a few pounds into earth orbit. Still no hovering cars, no cold fusion (or hot fusion either, unless we want to blow something up) no warp drives, no 'Beam me up, Scotty.'

If the conspiracy wackos are proven right and our governments and private industry have managed to keep secret and withhold this wonderful technology, then I guess we will also have to throw out general relativity, quantum mechanics, string theory and everything else, because all these imply that anti-gravity - as cool as it would be - not only does not exist, it cannot exist.

As for the folks on this thread who have said that no one really knows what magnetism is, that is simply not true! Any motion of electrons generates magnetism, and conversely, magnetism generates the motion of electrons. Magnetic fields generate photons - A.K.A. electromagnetic radiation, which can be anything from ultralow-frequency radio waves, microwaves, infrared, through visibile light, ultra-violet, all the way up to and beyond Gamma rays. Magnetism is therefore well understood. We know what it is and where it comes from. We can measure it and generate it and even shield ourselves from it at will.

Now GRAVITY is another matter. The moon lacks a magnetic field, but like all bodies, exerts the pull of gravity. We know what it does, but we cannot yet define what it is. Quantum theorists postulate the existence of a particle called a graviton, but we can't yet detect or measure them. And we cannot, unlike magnetism, artificially generate them or shield from them.

In short, gravity and magnetism are totally different things. Tesla drew up plans for anti-gravity generators that just plainly and simply did not work. But anyone with a battery and a wire can generate magnetism and any kid with what used to be considered a middle-school science education can explain how it works; though I fear such knowledge is worth a masters degree in these decadent times.

As for the ECO Aqualizer, it all sounds very bogus, with lots of anecdotes, testimonials, and pseudo-scientific jargon thrown about. Show me impartial, peer-reviewed, properly controlled, independently repeatable and verifiable experimental data that this thing works, and I will set aside my skepticism and duly apologize.

But the burden of proof is not on us skeptics to prove it doesn't work, but on ECO Aqualizer and its supporters to prove that it does. Testimonials and "research" by some otherwise completely unknown (perhaps fictitious?) Japanese scientist just do not satisfy.

And 180-day money back guarantees don't do it, either. If they really believe in their product, let them GIVE a few of them to a well-known and respected independent lab and agree to pick up the tab for and publish the tests, regardless of their outcome.

 

[Len]

 

[tazdevil]

I can't believe this thread is still going, it's going to put some of the sump threads to shame! :lol:

But the burden of proof is not on us skeptics to prove it doesn't work, but on ECO Aqualizer and its supporters to prove that it does. Testimonials and "research" by some otherwise completely unknown (perhaps fictitious?) Japanese scientist just do not satisfy.

That has to be one of the best worded answer's to this whole mess. Eco may say that they're doing good buisiness, however, there's also sucker's everywhere, look at how many people still fall for some of the old scam's (the "you won a prize for doing absolutely nothing" one comes to mind"). Has anyone ever tried calling the LFs's they have on their site as selling this thing and asking them what they think? Come to think of it, I have a phone call to make.....

 

[Anonymous]

My local fish store has about 30 of them sitting in an empty 120 gallon tank. That's a lot of money tied up in inventory. They must either have a consignment type deal from the manuf., or they really are selling these things.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you need a new local fish store!

 

[acirker]

So I'm one of the suckers who added one of these to my system. Its been running for awhile (6-8 months). I was never sure if it helped my tank, but it never seemed to hurt it either. A couple of days ago i lost power to the tank including the ecoaqualizer and a grounding probe. Now the ORP in the tank has dropped dramatically from approx 250 to 100. No other changes to the system. All corals are closed up and look terrible. Since getting power back the ORP has started to rise to approx. 130 (after 24 hours of being back on). Do you think this could have anything to do with the ecoaqualizer or the grounding probe?