Has anyone tried or heard of Eco Aqualizer??

[Anonymous]

I tried one, to see if it had ANY merit at all (nope). I placed it on a 150g set-up, in range of the model I purchased. It didn't clear up any algae and it messed up my skimmers action (less bubbles). I didn't see any improvement in water clarity, and I swear it pissed of my grouper. I posted a similiar response on another forum site, and got an instant email from Carl D.(Owner?) asking me to retract what I posted, and said I was giving false and misleading info (look in the mirror, buddy). He said I was given the unit to test (I paid in cold hard cash), I was oversizing the unit (well within their own specs) and that I was causing all the problems by not using correct size. He offerred to send me "the correct size" unit for free. My post contained no false statements and it even included a disclaimer that my pump driving the unit was found to be siezed, so I wasn't sure how long it had been off (not to long though, I remember it running at least a week prior). I posted a response, and pointed out my disclaimer. He emailled back, and apologized for the email, so I emailled him back asking him what he'd like me to post, for my own amusement and curiousity. No response. No "correct size" unit shipped for free. So my boss is at IMAC a several months ago, and is introduced to Carl by a friend. Carl pitches his product and offers a commercial size unit to test for free (apparently, not knowing I work for the guy he's pitching his product to and that I do all the system work and planning at the facility). I send an email to Carl asking about the test unit and the "correct size" unit he said he'd ship me. No response.

Bottom line, any one want the 200 model, for free? You pay shipping.

Hey, I even put the unit on my friends 180g recently and tested it for a few weeks. No improvement in water clarity, didn't stop algae growth, and it messed up his skimmers action as well.


You really put your foot in your mouth when asking for foam fractioner science, its friggin built on science buddy.

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't sound like good business hassling your customers. They say a happy customer will tell a friend an unhappy customer will tell 10 friends.

The companies I am talking about dont care about happy customers.Their goal is to get your initial purchase. They make their nut on initial volume, not repeat customers.
And, heck, even aol, sprint and comcast dont care about happy customers, as they have enough continuing volume to ignore people.

You made a bold claim that this product doesn't work, (you added that "IMO" after the fact didn't you?)

It should have be obvious that it was IMO - who elses could it have been? I added IMO in a clarifing reaction to the veiled threat of a threat of lawsuit.

I'm still waiting for the scientific proof that this thing doesn't work. I think I asked for it clear back on page 1.

If you are still waiting, then you haven't been reading this thread or any of the linked threads. Re read this thread. It is chock full of evidence.

I don't deny that it is well known, I have one, and I don't doubt the science behind it, what I'm asking for is the link to the "scientific" proof that one skimmer works better then another from a real scientist, You've set the burden of proof pretty high.

...

And I should believe you because....

You asked me if I believe everything I read, I sure don't.

http://www.thereefweb.com/skimmer_comparison.htm

You could have done your own search. This link was third in a search for 'skimmer comparison reef'.
Remember, I did several hours worth of research on the ECO before I started posting about it, and then I only posted when someone asked. I did not just willy nilly come out questioning the product, jumping to conclusions. I thought hard about the product, and came to my conclusions.

On a side note, I am not sure what a 'real' scientist is, or why you think I think such a thing is necessary. I like to look at data and methods. If the data is good, compelling and well done, I really don't care who did the study.
There still is no data regarding the ECO.

Again with the infomercial,

The add in FAMA is and infomercial. Birds of a feather you know...

you did buy a Thigh Master didn't you? When it didn't work you tried to return it and they wouldn't take it back, and now you don't trust anyone or anything. BTW Nordstroms has one of the best return polices that I know of. I see their policy as a reflection of the confidence they have in their products and service. I could be wrong. What sends up a red flag for me is "all sales final".

In the past, I have purchased several 'scamy' feeling products just to see for myself - not the thighmaster as excerise devices are only quasi 'scamy' because any excerise equipment will help if you actually use it. They didn't work, from the ionic breeze to magnet healing bands (that weren't magnetic BTW). And they were all difficult if not impossible to return even though one of their selling points was that they were easy to return.

And, I think comparing Nordstroms with a company that sells a single product, only by mail order, is odd. I should have been clearer about this at the outset. Also, Nordstroms doesn't use, 'keep it for six months or send it back for a full refund' as a selling point, and many stores have excellent return policies and practices.

Not anger just disbelieve and disgust that you would slander a company without posting any scientific evidence or personal experience that would back your claims.

Again, please re read this thread and the link I posted. Evidence galore.

I will give you the last word.

Why? If you have more to say, I, at least, am interested to consider it. This is a friendly discussion, isn't it?

 

[Jime]

You really put your foot in your mouth when asking for foam fractioner science, its friggin built on science buddy.

That's what people keep telling me, now where is that scienctific proof again? It's easy to say that it's backed by science, a little harder to produce the scientific evidence.

I do appreciate the review of the product. The fact that you noticed an effect on the skimmer performance suggests to me that the thing has some effect on the water. Would you mind posting a link to the thread you make reference to? I would love to read how it was hooked up and what if any effect it had on water quality. Why do you think it pissed off your grouper? A picture would be great of how it what plumbed into your system. Any chance you would be willing to return the thing to ECO and give us a review on how the return went? Thanks

This is a friendly discussion, isn't it?

I hope that it is, but it seems that we are both on oppisite ends of this issue with no end in site. I honestly believe that your claims lack foundation, but I have an open mind and will read any link that you send me.

[/quote]Again, please re read this thread and the link I posted. Evidence galore.

I've read through the thread again and I don't believe that any tangeable scientific evidence by any real scientist has been produced to back any claim that you've made.

BTW I think that is was a good idea to add the IMO, without it you implied that what you wrote was fact not opinion (It is snake oil compared to It's my oinion that it's snake oil). Huge difference. I think that's what I had the biggest problem with.

 

[Jime]

One day I'll figure out how to post a quote.

 

[Bleeding Blue]

Easy - can't post it here because it's copyrighted work and I don't have permission - but it's all right here



abstract "This book is not for the faint of heart. The author, who worked on the Apollo program and for the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, has applied scientific method and sound engineering principles to aquarium equipment. As an example, the section on protein skimmers includes the mathematical formulas to determine bubble size, air volume, bubble density and rise time. This work also includes an excellent section on ulraviolet sterilizers."

as I said buy the book it explains it all in very direct scientific terms not psuedo-science jargon meant to wow the uninformed.

Sorry to go off topic, but I didn't catch the name or author of the book. It sounds like a nice summer read.

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

That's what people keep telling me, now where is that scienctific proof again? It's easy to say that it's backed by science, a little harder to produce the scientific evidence.

No, it is not. In this thread alone, people have produced links and offered specific books for you to look at. Pick up any text book on oceanogrophy. If you cant be bothered to read the science, there is nothing we can do for you.

This is a friendly discussion, isn't it?
I hope that it is, but it seems that we are both on oppisite ends of this issue with no end in site. I honestly believe that your claims lack foundation, but I have an open mind and will read any link that you send me.

Did you read the Shimek link? Did you read the skimmer comparison link? Did you read the link to RC where several chemists discuss the issue?

Which claims do you feel lack foundation?

I've read through the thread again and I don't believe that any tangeable scientific evidence by any real scientist has been produced to back any claim that you've made.

Wow.
Last I checked, Randy Holmes-Farley and Habib from Salfiert were real scientists.
Please define 'scientific evidence' and 'real scientist' for us. Perhaps we are talking about different things.

BTW I think that is was a good idea to add the IMO, without it you implied that what you wrote was fact not opinion (It is snake oil compared to It's my oinion that it's snake oil). Huge difference. I think that's what I had the biggest problem with.

I know what you are saying, and I think it is a sad, stupid state of the world. It is sad that we must disclaim everything we say for fear of lawsuits. What could anything I write be other than my opinion?

 

[Anonymous]

Lots of links to lots of science.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=175135

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=179709

 

[Anonymous]

ANYONE THAT IS INTERESTED IN TRYING ECO FOR THEMSELVES CAN GO TO OUR PRODUCT PAGE, ENTER "OCEANS11" IN THE DISCOUNT BOX, AND RECIEVE 20% OFF.

Interesting--wasn't 'Oceans 11' about a con-job? 8O

 

[MattM]

Sorry to go off topic, but I didn't catch the name or author of the book. It sounds like a nice summer read.

Mike -

Just click on the picture of the book - it's a link to amazon.com.

Book is by Pedro Ramon Escobal, Intro by Martin Moe.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting--wasn't 'Oceans 11' about a con-job? 8O

LOL I guess it's a bit more subtle coupon than 'THE STING' :wink:

 

[Micah00]

Sharkky wrote:

Interesting--wasn't 'Oceans 11' about a con-job? 8O

Even better than that, it's about a group of guys getting together figuring out how to steal millions.

 

[Anonymous]

I just adds a certain flavor and depth to the whole thing, doesn't it?? 8O

 

[Anemone]

And you guys were complaining about truth in advertising...

Kevin

 

[jamesw]

I'm not going to comment on the product in question.

But here's the formula for making a bunch of money in this hobby:

• Borrow a product idea from another hobby or industry.
  
  Make the packaging look REALLY good.
  
  Get one of the aquarium magazine authors to write an article about their experiences trying the product. Go to a print magazine - they don't have science editors or peer review.
  
  Give out free samples of your product to prominent hobbyists. If possible, get photos of their beautiful reeftanks shortly after they start using their product.
  
  Start a website. Put the product photos on there and the BEAUTIFUL reeftank photos. Proclaim that the tanks have never looked better since they started using your product.
  
  Give a talk at MACNA if they will invite you. If not, try IMAC, or a tradeshow. Get a booth at same. Get some big-boobed booth babes (if anyone here has ever been to Comdex, you know what I'm talkin' about.)
  
  Hit the reef aquarium bulletin boards and start harvesting people's email addresses. Post messages if you don't mind getting flamed.
  
  Start cashing your checks. Sales have never been better!

Cheers
James

 

[Bleeding Blue]

So, ah, why am I going to go to grad school?

 

[tazdevil]

For the same reason I put up with my job. We never thought of anything like this.

I will be straight and upfront about one thing. If a new filtration method does come out, uses a magnet, works, can be scientifically shown to work, then I'm all for it. Problem is, I don't see magnet technology (in its current form) to be able to do anything for water quality/clarity. What I do see is much proof to the opposite. I looked back in some of the medical literature, and many devices that are in use now in the medical field were discovered by accident. Kidney dialysis in particular-the people that found out it worked didn't know how it was working at first. They did not and could not release it for use until it was shown exactly what and how it does work.

On a side note-look what happened when the FDA reduced its trial times for drugs. Phen-fen is a good example-it dramatically reduced weight, however, a few years after it came out, people starting having serious health consequences-some lethal.

So if you want to invent a new filter etc. fine. Just need to prove it works, otherwise your defrauding people, and that will eventually cause you major problems with the law in the future. Saying "buisiness is too good to continue debating here" just shows how well you can blurr reality and fantasy.

 

[Anonymous]

Jime-

This thread is about the eco product, not skimmers. I will not provide you with any deterent for this thread. I will also not spend ANY MORE time on this product, NONE. This productg has caused me more problems then any aquaria product I've ever owned (well there was that redesigned Fluval 304, but that was just a faulty piece of equipment and it was fully replaced).

You didn't get the clue when I said any one want this POS for free? I'd give it away, but that require more effort for this snake oil is worth.


Been there, done that, not responding to this thread again.

 

[Anonymous]

So, ah, why am I going to go to grad school?

Obviously, you and James are not into money.

 

[Anonymous]

:roll: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Wait a minute, I thought Lifer was in this for the long haul... :|