Long Island Water

[Paul B]

Today I collected some water from the eastern end of Long Island
NY. I have been collecting it for many years and am very surprised that I know of just about no one who uses it.
It's free and much better than any fake water you can mix, it needs no treatment and did I mention it's FREE.
All of your animals come from NSW, none of them come from ASW so whats the problem?
Of course I know that if you are from Arkansas or Arizona it may be a problem, but for the eight million or so people who live on Long Island I really don't see a problem.
The water I collected today was so clean and pure that I diden't actually have to add it to my tank, I just left the bucket near my tank and let the fish smell it

It is so clear that I mistakenly thought it was Vodka and made a Harvey Wallbanger from it, thats how clear it is.

Have a great weekend
:bagfish: Paul

 

[masterswimmer]

Paul, from my understanding (which isn't all that extensive), I thought NSW would be fine for our systems......as long as it was collected from a couple of miles off shore.

swimmer

 

[firehazard]

what about corals? doesnt asw have all the essential mixes and correct amounts of elements in it?

 

[KathyC]

Atlantis in Riverhead gets their water directly from the ocean and they bring it to the aquarium in a tanker truck, but if I recall correctly, they let it sit for 4 weeks, to kill off the parasites in it, and then it is treated before use.
The info about that is somewhere on line, not sure where, might even be on their website...

As Masterswimmer said, it's also usually done further off shore, due to all the crud in the water from the boaters and the run-off from the Island itself.
I do know it is not reccommended for use in a SW tank if untreated.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

what about corals? doesnt asw have all the essential mixes and correct amounts of elements in it?

Asw is more toxic than nsw and even though they claim to have more essential elements than nsw-bad out weights the good. In general, most reefers will aggressively add supplements to their system for example, calcium in the two part solutions. So a salt with less calcium has very little difference from another one that have more because you will saturate it anyway. However, it's unlikely you have the means to remove toxins in the asw. In conclusion, I am always a NSW supporter. Of course don't get the contaminated sw next to the sewage, industrial area nor the illegal dump sites.

 

[Paul B]

Swimmer it is a myth that you have to collect NSW from miles off shore. That water that is near the shore was miles off shore a little while ago. The problem comes from collecting on an outgoing tide due to the fact that the water may be contaminated from shore pollutants. It is better to collect on an incoming tide and never from an enclosed harbor or bay. Ocean beaches are the best especially away from industry and where there is a sandy beach.
As for ASW having exactly the same constituants as NSW, it does not.
NSW has all the elements on earth in it, ASW has maybe 74 chemicals and not necessarily in the same proportions as NSW. Of course that may not be a problem as most of those chemicals may not be needed and you can have very good luck with ASW. Many people can't get the natural stuff anyway.
Besides the water I believe it is more important to get the natural bacteria from the seawater and I also believe you should add that bacteria often.
My tank is constantly getting bacteria from the sea and it has been a very stable system. I even collect mud and put it in a container in my tank for a while, then I remove the mud just to get the beneficial bacteria.
If you never used NSW your tank is full of the same bacteria that is in your LFS tanks. That strain of bacteria may not be the most beneficial for the job we want that bacteria to perform. There are many types of bacteria even though we group them into aerobic and anerobic. Many bacteria are taking up space in out tanks and not helping us at all. Ilike to add natural fresh bacteria as often as I can.
Today I am going out in my boat and I will bring home a small container of mud because I have not collected all winter. I have never had a case of ich due to this or any other disease.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[charliethetuna88]

what about the salintiy its probally lower than what we need so should i bring it up then and i also have a boat and wondered about using some in my tank i am always going offshore abot 2 to ten miles ,do u recommend i try it and please address the salt level issue

 

[Paul B]

Of course it is better to collect offshore as I sometimes also do. In NY you will probably have to add some ASW to correct for low salinity. I don't think I have to mention to warm the water up before you dump it in your tank. I do this by floating jugs of hot water in the NSW.
Check the salinity after you warm up the water as the readings are temperature sensitive.
Happy boating.
Paul

 

[crox99]

Thanks for all the good info Paul.

 

[fluidimagery]

So Paul, do you not recommend "treating" the water... what does "Treating" mean anyway? I'm interested in trying it out in my tank.

From what a gather... Collect on an incoming tide... heat up to tank temp... check salinity and dump in?

I live about 300ft from the sound in Centerville (Riverhead) Northshore but keep my boat on the south shore (Westhampton)... which would be a better place to collect?

Thanks

 

[KathyC]

Here is a link to the article regarding use of NSW at Atantis.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/2/aquarium

I wouldn't chance using it myself.

 

[Paul B]

[QUOTEFrom what a gather... Collect on an incoming tide... heat up to tank temp... check salinity and dump in?
][/quote]

If you collect in the Hamptons you just have to check salinity and temp and dump it in. Yesterday I collected from Riverhead. The Hamptons would be my first choice because it comes straight from the Atlantic. It needs no treatment. If you collect from inland waters like the Western Sound where I usually collect it may need to be bleached with Regular Clorox.
That is a little of a procedure and it can be dangerous if you are not careful. I published that a few times and people have blamed me for killing their fish because they put Clorox directly in their tank. That is not the way to do it. Don't put "Clorox" in your tank, unless you want nice clean smelling fish. :biglaugh:

 

[saltycreefer]

I worked for a few service companies in West Palm beach where we used natural seawater. We would run it through a micron/uv/ and carbon before use. Down there the salinity was about 1.027 most of the time. You should see how the corals open after doind a water change!
I have tried using water here too, but I found everything to be low - salinity, ph alkalinity and calcium. I just made the necessary adjustments before use.

 

[charliethetuna88]

i usaully go out of jones inlet do u think i would have to dump clorox in if i colect from there

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Damn Hudson River :sad2:

 

[Paul B]

I just read the article about the Riverhead Aquarium tank, I have seen the tank and spoke to the guy in charge there. He gave me the back stage tour. I guess it's the guy in the article. Nice guy. I remember when they were building the tank and as a matter of fact a distant cousin of mine was the Architectural firm that built the place. They use natural water from Riverhead and it is true that it is lacking in calcium and alk. Of course after we put it in our tanks it is lacking in these things after a few days anyway and we know how to raise these things. The Riverhead water is the same water as Tahiti and the Caribbean. There are no walls and the oceans are well mixed. Just some of the proportions are diluted due to rainfall and river feeds. NSW also has vitamins and amino acids that is not found in ASW. No one knows if these things are important so thats a good thing but the fish eveoved in NSW so in some small way they may benefit from chemicals even trace ones not found in artificial mixes.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

ASW has maybe 74 chemicals and not necessarily in the same proportions as NSW. Of course that may not be a problem as most of those chemicals may not be needed and you can have very good luck with ASW.

Actually it's way out of proportion. From my study of breedings and raising frys, NSW yields 10 folds more than ASW. ASW is very toxic to frys in our tank.

Besides the water I believe it is more important to get the natural bacteria from the seawater and I also believe you should add that bacteria often.
Paul

This could also be the reason why more frys can be raised in NSW.

 

[qy7400]

Thoughts on water from the sound?

 

[Bob 1000]

How much bleach to nsw should I use??? Paul, this like many of your articles pushes me to try new and different natural things to my tank... Please keep up your exploration of this hobby... It's natural, cost efficient, and making my busy life a lot less stress free...Thanks Tobin..

 

[masterswimmer]

Paul, I commend you for being one of the pioneers. I'm happy that we've got someone willing to think outside the box and push the envelope.

My question to you, other than saving money on buying salt, how beneficial can the NSW be if you are treating it with Clorox? The bleach will kill all the beneficial bacteria you're looking to add to your system. At that point, it's almost like adding ASW. You've obviously got all the essential and trace elements in the water, but none of the good bacteria.

Don't get me wrong, saving money doing it this way would be good enough. But I don't think you're getting all the benefit from the NSW that you would if you didn't treat.......and I wouldn't think about adding NSW from the shore without treating.

swimmer