Role of the Internet in the Marine Ornamentals trade.

[Anonymous]

Ahh. I haven't ever even looked at the software that came with it.

 

[Anonymous]

For an example of why LFSs get a bad rep so quick and easy and why e-tailers are becoming the place to go for dry goods, check this recent example from the NRF...

My lfs told me that for a low to medium reef aquarium I could get away with a "regular" florourescent ballast with 2 flourescent bulbs - one 25W, one 30W blue spectrum bulb. Another fish shop told me that if I want a carpet anemone and 2 clown fish I "have to have" an actinic light fixture. An extra $300 and I should just get rid of the $150 I have already spent on my lights.

:roll:

 

[JennM]

The other side of the coin:

So many people bought the "clone" skimmer because they were too friggin' cheap to spend an extra $20-50 bucks on a GOOD skimmer like an Aqua-C or a BakPak. So they go cheap and whine when they get an inferior product. This goes for so many other items too -- stores are going to carry the cheap products, because that is what people want. I have seen stores get slammed on these boards because the LFS *tried* to sell the customer better quality equipment, and they were accused of trying to oversell... I remember one thread recently where the poster was pissed off because the LFS was trying to sell her on a 75 reef ready tank, versus a standard 75 glass box... can't win for losing...

As for etailers... we've seen dozens of them come and go. Smoky Mountain Corals, Lone Star Corals, Pets.com, Captive-Bred Corals (aka Aquatic Wildlife)... the list goes on and on of etailers that have flown-by-night. Either the hobbyist-turned-entrepeneur gets bored, has a system crash, finds that low margin sucks for the amount of work, or the company goes bust on crappy margins, or one of the mega-dot-coms gobbles it up... I think the turnover of etailers is worse than brick and mortar, mainly BECAUSE they don't have the investment that a storefront does (no scientific data to back me up, strictly imperical observation...).

I don't begrudge somebody saving a dollar if they can... heck I'm a frugal shopper but when I get people comparing my prices to online, I point out that they can pick my brain (or what's left of it) about a product before they buy, we'll stand behind it after the sale, we'll assemble it, tweak it, exchange it, whatever... the price difference is the value of my service. For most of my customers it's worth coming in to my shop.

I've had people have the nerve to buy something online and ask me to return/exchange it, put it together, get replacement parts... I simply smile and ask them to contact the store they bought it from FIRST. I won't turn anyone away but I do rub it in :lol:

OH and about FAMA... my old employer hated FAMA because of the mail-order ads etc... however, I get more business from my little ad in FAMA, than any other advertising medium I have tried! I do sell it in my store, not many buy it, I sell less than 5 copies/month, however lots of people read it, whether I sell it or not... and I'm happy for the business it has attracted for me. Also, people sometimes see the mail order ads for a given product and ask ME to order it for them... and I'm happy to oblige.

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

#4 makes no sense to me because it doesn't necessarily sway buyers away, it only helps to educate them and perhaps fend off the 'customers' with "nerve"..

But, having at least an e-presence certainly doesn't hurt to get yourself known... :wink:

Can you post your site link again ..........I think it is relative to the conversation

 

[Anonymous]

If more brick and mortars where like JennM and Dizzy, we wouldn't need etailers

Most of us don't have a LFS. Right now there are three in my town, one only has his stuff in the displays, one is closed because ...(topic for the sump), the other, well, let's just say it's a joke. So, I travel alot. I have yet to find lights, pods, live sand critters or for that matter ANYTHING that my animals need to survive in a 250 mile radius of my home. That's what wrong with this hobby 8O

I don't buy livestock on line, but I will buy hardware. It's the only place I can get it.

I believe that etailers that carry livestock should be held to higher standards. And that *they* should be regulated. And if I had a LFS that would do for me what Jenn and Mitch do for theirs I wouldn't be considering opening my own.

 

[Anonymous]

The other side of the coin:

So many people bought the "clone" skimmer because they were too friggin' cheap to spend an extra $20-50 bucks on a GOOD skimmer

I certainly don't argue that it happens, but in my own case that's far from how it went down. - I bought one out of ignorance of what was out there and from reading/believing the product literature. :roll: (This is where part of me wants to agree with Vitz in regards to drygoods regulation.. - "clones", magnets on pvc, snake-oil additives that make no noticeable impact at all.. It's all sickening really..)

#4 makes no sense to me because it doesn't necessarily sway buyers away, it only helps to educate them and perhaps fend off the 'customers' with "nerve"..

But, having at least an e-presence certainly doesn't hurt to get yourself known... :wink:

Can you post your site link again ..........I think it is relative to the conversation

I assume you're referring to my list of e-tailers? That can be found direct at: http://webpages.charter.net/gratefuldiv ... isting.htm - Or you can hit the root of my site by clicking on the "www" link for my profile...

 

[desertreef]

Greetings Lone Star Corals thrived for a few years but had to be broken down in June, 2002 and the name of the company changed because the of the individual's name on the business license. The company has been relocated and has operated continuously through it all at least with dry goods. None of LSCC's livestock or equipment was moved when I, the owner, departed. Crap, I was lucky to get our of there alive with my underwear So, farming operations had to be completely redone and this is an expensive and time consuming endeavor. We finally have some pristine liquid habitat growing some nice stuff and are expanding almost constantly. The company is now called Arizona Coral Company is once again reestablishing itself as a premium vendor of reef related livestock with a major emphasis on hobbyist grown SPS (retail store and online). Many people over the years would like to see as go away but we won't. As long as I am breathing and able to wipe away my own drool I will farm corals My three sons 25/21/19 are all insane hobbyists like thier mom and dad and btween the five of us we are capable of some pretty cool things. Anyway, Lone Star Corals is now www.arizonareeffarm.com and our retail outlet is named Arizona Coral Company. I don't visit the DBs as much as I'd like so if anyone reading this thread has an interest or questions in what we are up to this year please send PM. Cheers!

 

[Anonymous]

given that the internet is one genie that can't be put back in it's bottle, or even, probably, leashed :wink: i'd say that regardless if you like the net or not, it's something that everyone is behooven to take advantage of.




'he who hesitates, is lost'

(some kewl jewish proverb)

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone here know Blane Perun personally?

I'm just curious if he's expecting to keep operations up based on current sales or what......

 

[jamesw]

I wish he would stop spamming me with his stock list.

I signed up for his website because I though it was about the reef aquarium hobby and diving. Now he's turned it into a coral business - what a nifty trick! I wonder if he was planning that all along and was only trying to build up his customer list...

Cheers
James

 

[buddy620]

Pretty much all industries are being hurt by etailing and not just the marine ornamentals. The reason is lower overhead.

Why does that make it bad? You have a choice as well. I think that there is enough room for both. Some like to shop online and others like the LFS. That is called free enterprise! As people become more aware of the power of the internet they will become more aware they have options to shop both.

I believe that etailers that carry livestock should be held to higher standards. And that *they* should be regulated.

That goes both ways my friend. Have been in some LFS that I would never buy livestock from. Dirty tanks, low lighting and dead livestock in tanks.

 

[dizzy]

That goes both ways my friend. Have been in some LFS that I would never buy livestock from. Dirty tanks, low lighting and dead livestock in tanks.

Go back and read what you just wrote, and you will see that you just made my point.. If a lfs is dirty or the animals are improperly cared for you can hike your ass on out the door. We don't have that option with the etailers for the most part. Many do not allow walk-in at all. The fact is people probably wouldn't buy livestock from some of these etailers if they could see the conditions first hand.

I see the internet as becoming a black market of sorts. A good way to cheat the tax man, and also to move smuggled or illegally collected corals or fish. Am I the only who wonders about all that ricordia that gets traded? Look at all the internet porno that gets into communities that have ordinances against video stores renting or selling the stuff. The internet enables a whole new world of illegal activities and the bad guys in our industry find it a very useful tool.

 

[Anonymous]

That goes both ways my friend. Have been in some LFS that I would never buy livestock from. Dirty tanks, low lighting and dead livestock in tanks.

Go back and read what you just wrote, and you will see that you just made my point.. If a lfs is dirty or the animals are improperly cared for you can hike your ass on out the door. We don't have that option with the etailers for the most part. Many do not allow walk-in at all. The fact is people probably wouldn't buy livestock from some of these etailers if they could see the conditions first hand.

I see the internet as becoming a black market of sorts. A good way to cheat the tax man, and also to move smuggled or illegally collected corals or fish. Am I the only who wonders about all that ricordia that gets traded? Look at all the internet porno that gets into communities that have ordinances against video stores renting or selling the stuff. The internet enables a whole new world of illegal activities and the bad guys in our industry find it a very useful tool.

change that to:

"The internet enables a whole new world of legal activities and the good guys in our industry find it a very useful tool" :wink:

just as correct a statement

people in all buisnesses have been doing unethical things long before the internet showed up

the biggest problem i have is w/any business getting wholesale prices, w/out having to buy in wholesale volume

 

[dizzy]

vitz,
You obviously didn't catch the drift of why I started this thread. I'm assuming that James is going to promote the positive aspects of the web in his little chit chat at MO. The objective here is to show that there are negative aspects as well, so he will be able to present a more informed picture of the overall effect the internet will have on our industry. So vitz just think negative thoughts and feel free to contribute all you like. I know you can do it if you try.

 

[Anonymous]

:?

 

[jamesw]

Actually, I intend to give a "fair and balanced (TM)" presentation about the pros and the CONS of the web for this hobby.

I can think of LOTS of cons personally. If anyone else would like to list some cons here, I'll try to work them into my talk.

Cheers
James

 

[bobimport]

RE RICOREDA

Most of the ricoreda comes from Haiti. I know, cuz I import it and sell it to most of the Large U.S. wholesalers.

Big Bob

 

[Caterham]

If more brick and mortars where like JennM and Dizzy, we wouldn't need etailers

Most of us don't have a LFS. Right now there are three in my town, one only has his stuff in the displays, one is closed because ...(topic for the sump), the other, well, let's just say it's a joke. So, I travel alot. I have yet to find lights, pods, live sand critters or for that matter ANYTHING that my animals need to survive in a 250 mile radius of my home. That's what wrong with this hobby

Sally,

Dizzy is a lot closer than a 250 mile radius from you. I just wasn't sure if you were aware that he was that close to you. WK Parkway East to the Natcher and down to BG, just a short little jaunt :lol:. He has a really nice store and it would be worth the drive

 

[Kalkbreath]

RE RICOREDA

Most of the ricoreda comes from Haiti. I know, cuz I import it and sell it to most of the Large U.S. wholesalers.

Big Bob

I Know rock comes out of DR {you know the other side of the island THE SIDE WITH TREES STILL STANDING :wink: .....does any Recordia come out of DR?

 

[Anonymous]

Dizzy is a lot closer than a 250 mile radius from you. I just wasn't sure if you were aware that he was that close to you. WK Parkway East to the Natcher and down to BG, just a short little jaunt :lol:. He has a really nice store and it would be worth the drive

Yep, I know, got a date with him next week :lol:

If a lfs is dirty or the animals are improperly cared for you can hike your ass on out the door.

Done that more than a few times with my 13 yr old making all kinds of nasty remarks as we head out the door. He's such a good boy :!:

I like to *SEE* what I'm taking home, I want to pick out each and every piece of rock, ask STUPID questions and do the "Way Too Excited About .....Dance."

Sorry, etailers, you just don't do that for me. Besides, you can't/won't gaurentee my live fish/coral/clam/whatever order or that the shipper you use/choose will even get said perfect merchandise (livestock) to me in an orderly fashion. And just because you place a heat pack in the box (for free or not), it doesn't mean that I will receive said package at a reasonable temp. Unless of course, said package was flown first class, then transported to my home via the front seat (properly seat belted in of course). Then and only then would my package o livestock arrive at the proper temp. What, you do give a "arrive alive gaurnetee", yah, but look the the stipulations and the hoops you make *us* jump threw to get it. Thanks but no thanks. Not worth the trouble.

sorry about the tangent.