The Clarions are coming.....

[MaryHM]

Actually, the rumor of how the "tip off" occurred goes something like this:

Someone had customers in Japan and Tawaiian that wanted the Clarions. This guy hadn't purchased the fish yet (I think he's a jobber), but he went to Fish and Wildlife to see what type of permits would be required to export the Clarions. I guess F&W didn't recall ever seeing any permits for Clarions to enter the US and got suspicious.

 

[dizzy]

Vengeful and jealous tattle-tailing are checks and balances?
Interesting way to put it.
Steve

Steve I see it differently. If you have knowledge of a crime and you withhold that information from the proper authorities you may actually be guilty of a crime yourself. It might be whistleblowing, but it's not necessarily squealing or ratting someone out. I believe that Jeff Koutnik performed a service by warning people against buying these illegal angels. The paper trail is leading authorities to the stores that purchased them. Jeff may have saved a few asses. I say shame on those who bought them, but there is no need for a witchhunt. We all fall short of the glory of God. This was an ill advised and evil scheme that seemed destined for failure in the Information Age. Let us all hope that the pointing out of the weaknesses in the system doesn't cause an over-reaction by USFWL. If it does we have the people like BS to blame and not Mr. Koutnik. The possible explanation Mary posted seems reasonable to me. Even without that "lucky break" it would have been found out IMO.
Crime doesn't pay. When will we ever learn that lesson? Jobs have been lost over this and more heads may roll. Just admit it was a bad thing and let's move on.
Mitch

PS
If you have knowledge of other crimes being committed we would appreciate it if you bring them to the attention of the proper authorites. I didn't quite understand you references to rose bubbles and Florida ricordea.

 

[clarionreef]

Diz,
The whole industry is based on an illegitamite and illegal fish and coral supply from Indo and the Philippines. It is a gift...a hold-over from the Marcos and Suharto dictatorships.
This is why I have a hard time taking at potshots at the 'token' stuff...that is already being taken care of anyway.
Because there is not a working CDT on both sides of the ocean...we have a reprieve,
Because of the serious cash involved to buy CITES quotas based on bought and paid for bogus surveys to run and justify the wild coral trade we have a reprieve.
If we profess innocence and ethics on the small stuff while turning a blind eye to the fundamental errors in our livestock supplies its called 'tokenism' and not that big a deal...Not compared to ecosystem destruction as a policy!
Its just too much like fretting over a hangnail when you've got a heart condition. Yes, the hangnail must be taken care of...abut what of the ther thing?
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Steve,
That's a Watergate defense at best. It's like arguing that Nixon should have been forgiven for b&e because he would have won the election anyway. Sometimes the punishments don't fit the crimes. Sometimes entire groups get punished for the actions of a few. Look to the scandal at the Iraq prison for an example. Our industry doesn't need this type of bad PR. A lot of us don't break the rules, but we will all be judged for the lack of good judgement by a few. Pointing out that this is unacceptable doesn't somehow excuse the use of cyanide. I think the wholesalers should view it more like a three stikes warning and take heed. I hope the authorities are as willing to shrug this off as you are.

 

[clarionreef]

The authorites are taking care of it.
In fact, they often have taken care of this very same thing.
Its just now the internet allows everyone instant access and commentary on every... single... thing that happens...
This is recreational gossip to fill the day, to pose and posture and to elevate own own self esteem by comparison.
No wait...

OK...ya got me.
All the other wholesalers are bad.
If I were down...they'd all be trumpeting it all over right?
[ Like they did when a certain Florida wholesaler got busted for dealing in automatic weapons. ..or when a big LA wholesaler got busted in a sting involving a corrupt US Wildlife Service agent...and the smuggling of rare reptiles. The agent went to jail...]
Everyone...just buy from me.!! Why didn't I see the possibilities earlier...and try and profit from the issue?
Yeah, those LA guys...! What a bunch of rascals!
Sincerely, Steve
Cortez Marine [ a cyanide fish AND clarion free zone ].

 

[dizzy]

Steve,
I guess the point is that instead of coming in as an apologist it might have been better to say nothing at all. In this politically correct, Puritan medium, we're all supossed to act shocked and outraged even if we really aren't. Learn that and you can climb the ladder.
Mitch

 

[clarionreef]

You're right !
Climbling the ladder is the point is it not?
Not the environment or the things we say we care about.
All is to be twisted into self-service somehow and thats why we can't get sustained focus on sustainability issues and the real ones that threaten the trade.
The easy stuff is already being taken care of by the US Fish and Wildlife service.
With the Veron coral atlas in hand, they scrutinize the fungias from the heliofungias and confiscate accordingly. Coral gets confiscated every week at LAX!
Wow! The reefs are now so much safer NOW I guess.
Well...at least they get a piece of the issue. But only the piece that they can hold in the hand and see. Evidence beyond that stays beyond.
The eye for an eye on this will leave us all blind as there is so much more then meets the eye in the trade in marinelife.
Fortunately for the industry....the gov't.s and Eco-NoGOs [ cough NGOs...] in Asia cover for the serious stuff so we can feel better and sleep at nite. Making a customer feel guilty is bad for business.
Steve
PS. See, I didn't even mention leopard sharks.
President Clinton said it best. Don't ask...don't tell.

 

[JT]

PS. See, I didn't even mention leopard sharks.

Heh. Don't get ME started on this. :wink:

- JT

 

[clarionreef]

I HAVE A WHAREHOUSE ON THE SF BAY!
And many years fishing it and learning more about the where and when of leopard sharks then anyone.
I've caught hundreds of them..and seen huge females full of babies gutted by fisherman on the docks.
But alas, we could never sell em cuz they're a no-no.

"SO THEN THE WIFE ASKS HOW COME EVERYBODY ELSE CAN MAKE MONEY ON EM AND WE CAN'T?"

"Our best proof of sincerity is what we don't have," I say.
People don't care about that she explains. They only care what you DO have to sell that counts.
"Thats only in practice" AND REALITY I say. Not in theory or on RDO.
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think Petco is some how connected to all of this.......How many Clarions = another stadium? Maybe it was some how connected to that new MArine and reef section of the SD California Store?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Actually, it was! :lol:

 

[JeremyR]

<<This is recreational gossip to fill the day, to pose and posture and to elevate own own self esteem by comparison.
No wait... >>

Gossip is what you guys seem to thrive on in here.

 

[clarionreef]

EVERYONES DIFFERENT,
FOR ME ITS FOR BEFORE STARTING THE DAY AND DRYING OFF BETWEEN PACKING.
OOPOPS, GOTTA GO

 

[JeremyR]

Tawaiian.. hawaii has merged into taiwan to form one giant manufacturing vacation destination.

 

[dizzy]

I think Petco is some how connected to all of this.......How many Clarions = another stadium? Maybe it was some how connected to that new MArine and reef section of the SD California Store?

Good grief kalk, I hope you haven't inspired the Petco apologists to come out of the woodworks again. Speaking of Petco, has anyone heard of a Sam Samarasinghe in Gardena,CA?

 

[MaryHM]

Tawaiian.. hawaii has merged into taiwan to form one giant manufacturing vacation destination.

Warm water, gorgeous beaches, English speaking AND cheap souveniers?? I'm there!!

I love how if we aren't talking about Steve's cyanide cause then we're all a bunch of posturing, gossipping, recreational chatters. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Kalkbreath]

I think Petco is some how connected to all of this.......How many Clarions = another stadium? Maybe it was some how connected to that new MArine and reef section of the SD California Store?

Good grief kalk, I hope you haven't inspired the Petco apologists to come out of the woodworks again. Speaking of Petco, has anyone heard of a Sam Samarasinghe in Gardena,CA?

No , but it is quite possible that the same guys that supplied the new Petco reeftanks ............also had a part in the new Clarion supply.......... 8O

 

[Leopardshark]

Besides...plenty in the Mexcian government knew and accepted money for this. They covered for it and still will.

Steve

Steve, do you have any proof for this??
IMHO, if this is true it´s a shame and I hope the people involved in this will be caught.
Marco

 

[clarionreef]

My, my.
We were we way ahead of the US Fish and Wildlife Service on this, were we not?
[ Kalks original posting in early May of 2004 ]
Still, they did catch up to it all...eventually. The US side anyway.
The Mexican side is still...well, the Mexican side.

 

[Anonymous]

My, my.
We were we way ahead of the US Fish and Wildlife Service on this, were we not?
[ Kalks original posting in early May of 2004 ]
Still, they did catch up to it all...eventually. The US side anyway.
The Mexican side is still...well, the Mexican side.

You cannot really afford to buyoff the American side for a 100k shipment.