The Clarions are coming.....

[Anonymous]

Still, they did catch up to it all...eventually. The US side anyway.

What happened, and where's the story?

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

Chip,
Scroll down 6 topics and theres the story under...'busted.'
S

 

[clarionreef]

People,
Kalk sounded the alarm on this before the boat left the dock.

It was discussed and dissected before the fish were caught.

The ramifications were predicted and the future was forecast.

Read the past 3 pages and tell me if this forum isn't the most accurate, succinct and non coerced or manipulated discussion forum there is.
We have been on target many times as we represent so many sides and experience bases. We are a far better forum then most policy makers ever get to hear on subjects that interface with this trade..
Being ahead of the curve and ahead of the fish and wildlife service required little effort.
But they do eventually ctach up a little bit when its handed to them on a silver platter.
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

Conscience or Consilience? I must admit that the Clarion thread brings out the best and the worst. I applaud those of you who predicted the Clarion "problem" before someone got busted. It proves that there is a conscience in the marine aquarium fish (MAF) trade. So, I believe there is hope that the industry can help reform itself.

Peter

 

[Tropic]

Amen Brotha!

 

[clarionreef]

Would not one think that the aggrieved party; Mexico, would have been a bit more concerned about the situation and the case?
At least wouldn't you imagine a slap of the hand to the exporter?
Since Mexican fisheries percieved no harm done, is it not like the Philippine situation where so much of the reform energy does not come from the fisheries dept.?
How could foreign interest in the matter be all there is?
Must not the country of origin be at least somewhat concerned and involved?
Steve

 

[JennM]

Ah but if he was smuggling in illegals too, he was "helping" Mexico All those smuggled "immigrants" pump lots of American dollars back into the Mexican economy! If you don't believe me, go to any post office on a Saturday and see how many folks are buying money orders and mailing them. Having been to Mexico and seeing how "secure" (cough) their mail is, makes me wonder how many of those money orders actually make it to the intended parties... but I digress...

I use the term "immigrants" very loosely - they aren't immigrants at all. I'm an immigrant, and I went through the proper channels and jumped through all the hoops to earn my permanent resident status. (OK off my soap box now...)

What's a few fishes worth, in exchange for exporting a bunch of people who'll send money back home?!

Jenn

 

[Tropic]

Steve,

I hear you but, what is your point exactly? We are talking about Mexico.
Really this kind of accountability doesnt exist outside of our borders anymore.....really it doesnt even happen inside of our borders for that matter...

 

[JennM]

Heh bring on the Green Card roundup - I've got mine and so do my kids (born in Canada - no "anchor babies" needed!).

There's lots and lots wrong with the world - hard to know where to start sometimes... doing the right thing even when nobody is looking is as good a place to start as any I guess!

Jenn

 

[clarionreef]

I love Mexico..
and have worked there on and off for 23 years.
Everything I learned about working with village fishers I learned in Mexico.
Our village near Loreto, Baja was the pilot project for the later netcaught breakthru in Bolinao, Pangasinan, Philippines back in 83.
What I know for sure is that;
1] poor fisherman count for very little in Mexican fisheries thinking
and 2] sustainability is a buzzword to get money from foreign NGOs to dummy up anything they want...and give them what they want to hear.
There will be more clarions coming...one day you will scroll back to his again.
Steve

 

[bobimport]

500 comming in? Is lightner out of jail so soon?

 

[JennM]

Ummm look at the beginning of this thread. It started 2 YEARS ago. It was brought up again when Lightner was sentenced.

I don't think he'll be bringing in Clarions or illegal aliens anytime soon.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to buy one. Anyone have one for $5?

Peace,

Chip

 

[clarionreef]

This popular and very public thread started before the boat left the dock in Mexico...
About 15 dealers also knew.
Steve

 

[fishinchick]

More than dealers knew...

There were wholesale/retail employees that watch the boards frequently to keep up on the latest 'thing' that knew too.

 

[JennM]

All of the cool people knew

Does anybody other than myself find it kind of ironic that the wholesaler who's the most vocal about not having done anything wrong or illegal, chose this very same forum to make his official statement about it, and insists he never saw this thread? And 2 years later he's still professing his innocence and no prior knowledge of any wrongdoing?

From the comments in this forum, and the PMs I've been receiving from all over the place... nobody bought it then, and nobody appears to be buying it now.

Jenn

 

[JT]

And 2 years later he's still professing his innocence..

"innocence" or ignorance? :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

To be fair, there was some speculation that the mex government had changed its mind about exporting Clarions.
Remember the article by some Mexican scientist claiming that clarions are so plentiful around the Navel bases .............that the sailors use them as bait to catch Groupers.. Chopping $2000 fish up up as bait.
There was speculation that this scientist had opened the eyes of the powers that be.
Allowing collection by the Mexican navy for export to the USA.
Kinda like what was happening in Ascension Island with the Resplendent Angels.
That was my thinking when I reported that the fish are coming.
Did anyone find out where these fish actually were collected? Or if in fact they were collected in no take areas?
What is the legal position of Clarions collected within the Mex.Navel bases?
Its funny how several of the posters on this topic have spent time in and around navel bases ,ilegal fishing notwithstanding. (You know how you are) and so do I..........
I will look for the artical about Clarion Chum fishing to put things in perspective.

 

[Kalkbreath]

In the Archipiélago de Revillagigedo, which includes the main islands named Isla San Benedicto, Isla Socorro and Isla Clarión, the numbers of Clarion Angels are so enormous that, if you are diving, or even snorkelling there and look at the reef profile, you can see only orange fishes swimming around. Mexican navy marines from the Navy Base in Socorro Island, fish Clarion Angels without any bait and cut them up into small fish meat slices to fish for bigger species like groupers or snappers. Clarion Angels are so tame and voracious that the marines have a nickname for them: they call them piranhas!

It is a real shame that an abundant resource like the Clarion Angel cannot be harvested just because of the mediocre attitude of politicians who are trapped by non-rational ecologist groups and prefer to sacrifice a profitable activity for many people, rather than take the risk of losing their political positions. The new government of Mexico includes many business people and the new president, Vicente Fox, had promised to support productive projects, especially those dedicated to export activities. We only hope that these words turn into facts in the near future. I wouldn't like to have to write in five years' time, another negative report about the status of the industry in my country.

http://www.ofish.org/data-area.asp?aid=9986&gid=4839[/quote]

 

[JennM]

To be fair, there was some speculation that the mex government had changed its mind about exporting Clarions.

Well, as some here have pointed out in their own defence - there's a hell of a gap between speculation and fact

That street runs both ways.

Jenn