Cyanide: What it does to the reefs
- Thread starter naesco
- Start date
Wayne,
I notice that whenever you're cornered, and called on your abject lack of any experience, credentials, or knowledge, you always retreat into your cut-&-paste environmentalist-fundraiser rhetoric.
Son, you have no idea how ridiculous that sounds, when addressed towards me.
Doesn't make it untrue, because almost everything changes eventually.
Then try to lecture me on what I owe to my countrymen.
Unbelievable...
:roll:
I notice that whenever you're cornered, and called on your abject lack of any experience, credentials, or knowledge, you always retreat into your cut-&-paste environmentalist-fundraiser rhetoric.
Son, you have no idea how ridiculous that sounds, when addressed towards me.I've been hearing that for almost a quarter of a century now.
Doesn't make it untrue, because almost everything changes eventually.
Tell you what. You can come down here, to my country.
Then try to lecture me on what I owe to my countrymen.
Unbelievable...
:roll:
Hi Mitch,
That's a Ventricaria ventricosa thallus (green bubble algae).
Nasty little buggers, salad-wise. Talk about non-flavors bursting in your mouth...
Given the gas that can be gastrically generated, well yeah, I might see the 'grenade' reference.
Too much information...too much information...oh yeah, too much...)
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I'm sure there's a 'Christina Aguilera' song applicable to this post,
but I simply haven't Mary's musical exposure.
I think two totally separate issues are being erroneously tied together here.
Fact: Cyanide kills reefs... AND fish...AND people too (any stats on how many cyanide fishers contract cancer?)
Fact: A skilled cyanide fisher can catch fish which survive long-term.
Let's not lose sight of our focus here....
Cyanide use is bad. It's illegal and it devastates reef life. It needs to be stopped, period. Just because many of the fish caught with it, can survive in the long term, doesn't excuse its use, and I don't see many here (ahem) excusing its use on this basis. Some do try to excuse it because food fishing and other factors contribute "more" to reef destruction, but for the majority of us, that one just does not absolve us of whatever part we have in it.
While a fish is more likely to die from cyanide exposure than not, it is equally likely to die from bad handling or shipping practices. Anecdotal evidence presented here supports that notion.
There are two issues to address:
1) End the use of cyanide by providing training and making proper equipment available.
2) Equip and educate fishers, exporters, importers and retailers to properly handle the catch all along the chain of custody, to mimimize illness and mortality.
I think that simple law of economics applies in issue 2 - as was mentioned, a supplier that sends lots of dead/sick fish, won't get repeat business, so apply a little of Darwinian theory here and only the strongest will survive. The bigger demon is cyanide use because it's harder to change peoples' attitudes and habits.
So Wayne -- still waiting on DOA/DAA stats from your son's shop...
Inquiring minds want to know.
Jenn
Fact: Cyanide kills reefs... AND fish...AND people too (any stats on how many cyanide fishers contract cancer?)
Fact: A skilled cyanide fisher can catch fish which survive long-term.
Let's not lose sight of our focus here....
Cyanide use is bad. It's illegal and it devastates reef life. It needs to be stopped, period. Just because many of the fish caught with it, can survive in the long term, doesn't excuse its use, and I don't see many here (ahem) excusing its use on this basis. Some do try to excuse it because food fishing and other factors contribute "more" to reef destruction, but for the majority of us, that one just does not absolve us of whatever part we have in it.
While a fish is more likely to die from cyanide exposure than not, it is equally likely to die from bad handling or shipping practices. Anecdotal evidence presented here supports that notion.
There are two issues to address:
1) End the use of cyanide by providing training and making proper equipment available.
2) Equip and educate fishers, exporters, importers and retailers to properly handle the catch all along the chain of custody, to mimimize illness and mortality.
I think that simple law of economics applies in issue 2 - as was mentioned, a supplier that sends lots of dead/sick fish, won't get repeat business, so apply a little of Darwinian theory here and only the strongest will survive. The bigger demon is cyanide use because it's harder to change peoples' attitudes and habits.
So Wayne -- still waiting on DOA/DAA stats from your son's shop...
Inquiring minds want to know.
Jenn
Please don't presume to know why I do anything. You haven't a clue. About this or anything else. I could care less if people listen to me or not on the cyanide issue. It's not like I woke up one morning and said "Boo-hoo- I've been preaching about this cyanide issue for years and no one cares so I'm going to quit supporting net caught only." What happened was I was losing my shirt trying to support net caught. The lack of variety combined with the ever increasing DOAs was killing me. I started importing from other suppliers not because no one listened, but because it wasn't profitable. Tell you what Wayne...you make a commitment to cover my losses with net caught fish and I'll go back to net caught only. That shouldn't be much of a challenge for you since net caught fish never die in your opinion. How about it? Willing to put your money where your uneducated, rhetoric spewing mouth is??
Tell ya what, Wayne...
I CHALLENGE you. Come on down to Atlanta, I'll pick you up at the airport, I'll put you up in the Days Inn, and you can come and observe MY operation for a week or two. You can ride shotgun with me to the airport to pick up fish shipments and you can unpack them with me and see for yourself.
I'd offer to pay you but without a work visa, that would be illegal but you could write off your expenses to Reeform, for education and training.
Kalk's place is just down the road, I won't presume to speak for him but perhaps he'll invite you over to his shop for more of the same.
Then we can pop you on a plane or a truck or bus and send you up to KY to Mitch's place...
Anybody else want to give Wayne an education?
I'm dead serious Wayne - I dare you to come and see for yourself. Put your own money where your mouth is.
Jenn
I CHALLENGE you. Come on down to Atlanta, I'll pick you up at the airport, I'll put you up in the Days Inn, and you can come and observe MY operation for a week or two. You can ride shotgun with me to the airport to pick up fish shipments and you can unpack them with me and see for yourself.
I'd offer to pay you but without a work visa, that would be illegal but you could write off your expenses to Reeform, for education and training.
Kalk's place is just down the road, I won't presume to speak for him but perhaps he'll invite you over to his shop for more of the same.
Then we can pop you on a plane or a truck or bus and send you up to KY to Mitch's place...
Anybody else want to give Wayne an education?
I'm dead serious Wayne - I dare you to come and see for yourself. Put your own money where your mouth is.
Jenn
vitz":1fvdbvee said:
LOL I'm not worked up, honestly
But I've dished out that advice in the past, perhaps I need to take it too, eh?Not like I expected him to take up my invite for some Southern Canuck Hospitality... but I can call his bluff anyway.
Kalk - I think Peter could look upon things objectively, give the guy some credit.
For what it's worth, where I used to work, given the suppliers they used, we used to have plenty of DOA/DAA. Not 50% but we had way more than we should have had, now that I know what I did not know then,
When I first opened I used some of the same sources and got lots of DOA/DAA... but I had come to expect that and thought it was "normal". Then I tried some new suppliers (well, new to me, hadn't dealt with them before) and realized that I could set that standard much higher.
Still, I daresay the vast majority are buying from those old suppliers, and if their average DoA/DAA is similar to what I experienced in 2 stores, there's a hell of a lot of fish dying each week. I used to fax a DOA list after each shipment. Now I might email a supplier with a "fyi" if something arrives DOA or dies shortly after, just so they can know what does well and what doesn't, so they can adjust their ordering/handling etc., accordingly. That's just "feedback".
Jenn
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
People,
There are plenty of dealers in the Vancouver area.
The import activity and retail activity in Waynes back yard provides tons of research material .
I suspect that face to face our hero has not done well and has simply retreated to the internet in America where we don't know him as the locals do.
Seriously Wayne. How does it go over there with the netcaught message? I certainly care a lot more then you about these issues and routinely do without cyanide caught variety which harms me financially every day. Doing without full variety is very dangerous and ruins business compared to what it could be. Mary gambled her own business on the chance that more then a token few dealers would care enough to alter buying habits. Others have as well and simply start mixing cyanide fish after a few weeks of trying to stay clean.
Many of us dealers have no other [ or normal] income to fall back on. I am acutely and sincerely interested in strategies of influencing sustainable practices and deal with it every day. After two years in this medium, I have learned nothing from you and have not even recieved a single referral from a dealer trying to go netcaught from you.
If you had in your entire lifetime the fish handling and dealing experience I had last week I may be able to take you a bit more seriously.
The call for the general reform of everything from a safe and hidden place smacks more of a self serving, psychological therapy then a roll up the sleeves and 'get busy' type contribution we really need.
That...or you've just formed a little NGO tax shelter to creatively write off the 'extensive traveling and research' you've done on these issues. :lol:
[A Filipino American runs a local coffee shop. I think I'll go partake of a latte w/ a spritz of amaretto after posting this and boost my understanding of Philippine fishery issues]
OK...I'll stop,
Well then..what can a hobbyist do? Well. A sincere hobbyist that does not want to put his money into the trade in cyanide fish might start by sharing his experiences with dealers in his own back yard! You know...the end-users near your house.
The Canadian experience on all this is missing from you. Please do something useful and clue us in!
Steve
There are plenty of dealers in the Vancouver area.
The import activity and retail activity in Waynes back yard provides tons of research material .
I suspect that face to face our hero has not done well and has simply retreated to the internet in America where we don't know him as the locals do.
Seriously Wayne. How does it go over there with the netcaught message? I certainly care a lot more then you about these issues and routinely do without cyanide caught variety which harms me financially every day. Doing without full variety is very dangerous and ruins business compared to what it could be. Mary gambled her own business on the chance that more then a token few dealers would care enough to alter buying habits. Others have as well and simply start mixing cyanide fish after a few weeks of trying to stay clean.
Many of us dealers have no other [ or normal] income to fall back on. I am acutely and sincerely interested in strategies of influencing sustainable practices and deal with it every day. After two years in this medium, I have learned nothing from you and have not even recieved a single referral from a dealer trying to go netcaught from you.
If you had in your entire lifetime the fish handling and dealing experience I had last week I may be able to take you a bit more seriously.
The call for the general reform of everything from a safe and hidden place smacks more of a self serving, psychological therapy then a roll up the sleeves and 'get busy' type contribution we really need.
That...or you've just formed a little NGO tax shelter to creatively write off the 'extensive traveling and research' you've done on these issues. :lol:
[A Filipino American runs a local coffee shop. I think I'll go partake of a latte w/ a spritz of amaretto after posting this and boost my understanding of Philippine fishery issues]
OK...I'll stop,
Well then..what can a hobbyist do? Well. A sincere hobbyist that does not want to put his money into the trade in cyanide fish might start by sharing his experiences with dealers in his own back yard! You know...the end-users near your house.
The Canadian experience on all this is missing from you. Please do something useful and clue us in!
Steve
What I've noticed in Vancouver re: marine fish mortality from having worked in the retail sector for 6 years now:
The 1-3% Mary and others cited (for a very small number of samples, admittedly) has never appeared to hold up for me on the end retail end. Our own store always fares well with the "tanks" - damsels, triggers, clowns.. But we have exceptionally high mortality with all species of angels and several types of inverts. I've only recently bullied my way into caring for the salt section so I can't comment on the conditions of our own salt tanks, but I suspect it was more than "bad water" that kills the angels shortly after arrival.
It might also be worth pointing out that we don't ship any SW organisms - my employer picks them up directly from wholesalers' holding tanks and drives them to us.
Of the other stores (I'm forever going to other stores to see what's available, as we are really just a FW and marine FO store - we've got 6 salt tanks ATM, and 2 are display and 1 is LR only), I definitely see high mortality with new arrivals. Places with high turnover usually have several diseased-looking fish (I use disease in its exceptionally loose meaning) in new shipments and while I can't really look at their invoices, I feel confident saying that up to 10% "bad" fish looks like the norm for a typical shipment. There is always a lousy shipment where next to everything dies, but that's not something the end retailers can control. Some are much worse than others. And this is also from trips usually after noon - the morning "scoop", if needed, is long done.
Don't get me wrong - there's no wasteland of diseased fish all around the city, but it doesn't look like anybody enjoys 100% survival rates.
Cyanided? Net-caught? I have no idea, nor do I expect I have any way to find out. Were I to own the store, I expect I'd still get a run around trying to find out, or outright lied to if I started bothering my wholesalers.
Wayne, what store is your son at, out of curiousity? I'm sure I've probably spoken to him before. I promise I won't go find him and yell at him. I'd think KE just because they employ so many people. (PM me if you don't want to advertise - I'm just nosy and the trade is so small in Vancouver)
The 1-3% Mary and others cited (for a very small number of samples, admittedly) has never appeared to hold up for me on the end retail end. Our own store always fares well with the "tanks" - damsels, triggers, clowns.. But we have exceptionally high mortality with all species of angels and several types of inverts. I've only recently bullied my way into caring for the salt section so I can't comment on the conditions of our own salt tanks, but I suspect it was more than "bad water" that kills the angels shortly after arrival.
It might also be worth pointing out that we don't ship any SW organisms - my employer picks them up directly from wholesalers' holding tanks and drives them to us.
Of the other stores (I'm forever going to other stores to see what's available, as we are really just a FW and marine FO store - we've got 6 salt tanks ATM, and 2 are display and 1 is LR only), I definitely see high mortality with new arrivals. Places with high turnover usually have several diseased-looking fish (I use disease in its exceptionally loose meaning) in new shipments and while I can't really look at their invoices, I feel confident saying that up to 10% "bad" fish looks like the norm for a typical shipment. There is always a lousy shipment where next to everything dies, but that's not something the end retailers can control. Some are much worse than others. And this is also from trips usually after noon - the morning "scoop", if needed, is long done.
Don't get me wrong - there's no wasteland of diseased fish all around the city, but it doesn't look like anybody enjoys 100% survival rates.
Cyanided? Net-caught? I have no idea, nor do I expect I have any way to find out. Were I to own the store, I expect I'd still get a run around trying to find out, or outright lied to if I started bothering my wholesalers.
Wayne, what store is your son at, out of curiousity? I'm sure I've probably spoken to him before. I promise I won't go find him and yell at him.
I'd think KE just because they employ so many people. (PM me if you don't want to advertise - I'm just nosy and the trade is so small in Vancouver)the only time i've ever encountered an avg doa above 5% consistently is when i dealt w/ transshipped stuff years ago
that's for a shipment as a whole
certain species are sometimes higher %age by species, but overall on an order, i've rarely encountered 'bad' shipments,- those were more often a matter of weather/airline 'screwups'
that's for a shipment as a whole
certain species are sometimes higher %age by species, but overall on an order, i've rarely encountered 'bad' shipments,- those were more often a matter of weather/airline 'screwups'
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Rikko,
Suave...thanks for your impression. Anyone else from Vancouver care to represent?
Picking up their own and then having lots of losses? Wow. Around here a retailer would be ashamed to admit that he picked bad fish. Cherry picking your own fish by definition means you're looking for the best quality stuff. To fail at that job is embarrassing and something to remain quiet about.
I for one imagine that they only way to lose what is claimed as the norm is to be so rich that it doesn't hurt you and ruin your life.
If I get those kind of losses three times in a row I'm outta this business on the basis of mathematics alone. Obviously the claim by non participants that we [ the participants] shovel out such a percentage of dead in buckets on a regular basis is mathematically impossible as such losses could only be supported by outside financial subsidy.
Only an NGO could do such a poor job and remain in business! :lol:
Steve
Suave...thanks for your impression. Anyone else from Vancouver care to represent?
Picking up their own and then having lots of losses? Wow. Around here a retailer would be ashamed to admit that he picked bad fish. Cherry picking your own fish by definition means you're looking for the best quality stuff. To fail at that job is embarrassing and something to remain quiet about.
I for one imagine that they only way to lose what is claimed as the norm is to be so rich that it doesn't hurt you and ruin your life.
If I get those kind of losses three times in a row I'm outta this business on the basis of mathematics alone. Obviously the claim by non participants that we [ the participants] shovel out such a percentage of dead in buckets on a regular basis is mathematically impossible as such losses could only be supported by outside financial subsidy.
Only an NGO could do such a poor job and remain in business! :lol:
Steve
Rikko,
If you are picking fish out of the wholesaler's tanks, I doubt you're experiencing much DOA (Dead on Arrival). Probably more DAA (Dead after Arrival). You say you are a small retailer (6 tanks total, 2 for display and 1 for live rock, leaving you with only 3 tanks to sell fish out of). Could it possibly be your handling/maintenance techniques that are causing the high mortalities?? You say you lose a lot of inverts. What kinds? Because I find most inverts to be basically bulletproof.
If you are picking fish out of the wholesaler's tanks, I doubt you're experiencing much DOA (Dead on Arrival). Probably more DAA (Dead after Arrival). You say you are a small retailer (6 tanks total, 2 for display and 1 for live rock, leaving you with only 3 tanks to sell fish out of). Could it possibly be your handling/maintenance techniques that are causing the high mortalities?? You say you lose a lot of inverts. What kinds? Because I find most inverts to be basically bulletproof.
I honestly don't believe DOA is much of a problem for most US stores. DAA however is another issue. Quality of systems and attention to maintenance can vary greatly from store to store. IME disease prevention and treatment are the biggest issues dealers face. Copper is effective in preventing parasitic outbreaks such as Amylodinium and Crytocaryon. Long term exposure however can be detrimental to some fish species, especially angelfish. Keeping effective treatments levels is also tricky when you are constantly selling out of the systems. Most copper test kits are extremely difficult to read. Selling tanks look better with sustrate in them, but also make keeping an effective treatment level more difficult. UV sterlizers can also help if the bulbs are changed on a regular basis, and of course good water quality is important in helping to eliminate undue stress. IMO this area should be at the top of our list if we want to reduce mortality at the retail level and beyond. Now if we can eliminate parasites at the wholesaler level, it will greatly improve the chances of success for retailers. If you could sell every fish you got in within two or three days loses would be extremely low. It doesn't work like that those of us in smaller market areas.
Mitch
Mitch
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
To all non fish dealers;
Ie. hobbyists, funders and professional NGO personel.
Theres something about the lifestyle of many basic, middle class brick and mortar fish dealers that causes them to look for and patch every hole in their bucket. Especially if their lifes investment and effort are tied up in that 'bucket'.
As an importer/wholesaler closed to the public...I can attest that this group [ retailers] are so tight they squeak. They go to great lengths to avoid wasting, ruining, losing, killing and paying for as much as they can possibly avoid. It is not in their genetic make-up to so cavalierly, carelessly and flippantly throw away good money after bad.
There are losses and these losses can be better understood. However...they will never be understood well from the outside as so many things in these fish/eco/handling/health equations.
One thing I do not understand is the passion for these issues on paper but not for keeping fish in general. I mean it would be different if the critics from afar started with..."I had one of those and it didn't eat "...and so on and so forth. Then there would be a bit more credibility.
Citing a conversation from the previous decade and recalling an aside from a friend of a friend ...or judging all from a Petco/Petsmart level store or just judging from someone actually willing to talk to you is not good survey work.
This industry is in flux and 4 year old info is as obsolete as 4 month old hi-tech info.
Update you guys and never go off half-cocked with out a 'rent paying dealer' as an advisor to keep you at least in the ballpark!
Steve
Ie. hobbyists, funders and professional NGO personel.
Theres something about the lifestyle of many basic, middle class brick and mortar fish dealers that causes them to look for and patch every hole in their bucket. Especially if their lifes investment and effort are tied up in that 'bucket'.
As an importer/wholesaler closed to the public...I can attest that this group [ retailers] are so tight they squeak. They go to great lengths to avoid wasting, ruining, losing, killing and paying for as much as they can possibly avoid. It is not in their genetic make-up to so cavalierly, carelessly and flippantly throw away good money after bad.
There are losses and these losses can be better understood. However...they will never be understood well from the outside as so many things in these fish/eco/handling/health equations.
One thing I do not understand is the passion for these issues on paper but not for keeping fish in general. I mean it would be different if the critics from afar started with..."I had one of those and it didn't eat "...and so on and so forth. Then there would be a bit more credibility.
Citing a conversation from the previous decade and recalling an aside from a friend of a friend ...or judging all from a Petco/Petsmart level store or just judging from someone actually willing to talk to you is not good survey work.
This industry is in flux and 4 year old info is as obsolete as 4 month old hi-tech info.
Update you guys and never go off half-cocked with out a 'rent paying dealer' as an advisor to keep you at least in the ballpark!
Steve
Rikko,
I appreciate your candor.
If your employer is picking up shipments, is he dipping them himself (cherry picking) or is he calling in an order and showing up on the dock to pick it up? That can make a huge difference. If he's picking them and they die... it's either a system problem in the store, or the owner doesn't know how to pick them. If it's not the system or the owner, then you need a new supplier.
Every store should have a hospital/treatment system for the sick and injured. Ideally in a back room or other quiet place where the fish can rest and recuperate without kids banging on the glass or without being picked at by other fishes.
The biggest problems we find with angels, no matter what the supplier, is flukes. Copper doesn't get them but a freshwater dip a day for a few days knocks them out quickly and relatively painlessly. Not treating the fish will die eventually - most likely from suffocation as the flukes infest the mouth and gills and eyes -- soft tissues.
If you are losing inverts there is something seriously wrong. Snails can be a bit sensitive but crabs are bulletproof, and stars and urchins are fine IF they are acclimated properly. If not, they can melt down... but that's easy to do properly and losses there should be slim to none.
Of course a lot also depends on what is being brought in too...
Coral beauties are tough -- Rock beauties are not. My lower losses are most likely partly due to the choices I make. I don't bring in obligate feeders like cleaner wrasses and moorish idols. Heck I don't even carry mandarin dragonets (I can bring one in for a hobbyist with an appropriate tank...). My choices are generally hardy, small, colourful fishes, gobies, blennies, hardy angels, hardy tangs... the occasional predator - but most of my customers are reefkeepers so the predators are almost more for show - they aren't fast movers. People want fish that will get along and thrive -- and that's what I try to bring in.
Comparing my mortality numbers with somebody who brings in delicate fishes and may not necessarily know how to care for them is like comparing apples to bowling balls. A few weeks ago I went to the full-line shop in town, and they had a moorish idol (painfully thin) and a bunch of sickly looking butterflies... painful... Betcha my bottom line runs circles around theirs...
I have to concur with Steve -- we do squeak. Every dime is important. The most expensive fish is a dead fish -- yes there are some bad business people out there, who through ignorance, are wasteful of life and of resources... but typically they don't survive long.
If the problem can be appropriately pinned on the wholesaler, find another wholesaler. There should be no such thing as a "bad shipment". I've had losses of all or most of one specie in a shipment, and I notify my supplier and it's usually made right on the next order and they do what they need to do to correct the problem at their end or their supply end.
I did get one "bad batch" once... we got an extra dose of Vibrio. When it was all said and done I had 16 fish left. Happened early on and luckily our store wasn't fully stocked yet... but we have the ability to nip something like that in the bud now. That's a risk of bringing in wild caught animals - pathogens that can be devastating. But that was the exception, not the rule.
Jenn
I appreciate your candor.
If your employer is picking up shipments, is he dipping them himself (cherry picking) or is he calling in an order and showing up on the dock to pick it up? That can make a huge difference. If he's picking them and they die... it's either a system problem in the store, or the owner doesn't know how to pick them. If it's not the system or the owner, then you need a new supplier.
Every store should have a hospital/treatment system for the sick and injured. Ideally in a back room or other quiet place where the fish can rest and recuperate without kids banging on the glass or without being picked at by other fishes.
The biggest problems we find with angels, no matter what the supplier, is flukes. Copper doesn't get them but a freshwater dip a day for a few days knocks them out quickly and relatively painlessly. Not treating the fish will die eventually - most likely from suffocation as the flukes infest the mouth and gills and eyes -- soft tissues.
If you are losing inverts there is something seriously wrong. Snails can be a bit sensitive but crabs are bulletproof, and stars and urchins are fine IF they are acclimated properly. If not, they can melt down... but that's easy to do properly and losses there should be slim to none.
Of course a lot also depends on what is being brought in too...
Coral beauties are tough -- Rock beauties are not. My lower losses are most likely partly due to the choices I make. I don't bring in obligate feeders like cleaner wrasses and moorish idols. Heck I don't even carry mandarin dragonets (I can bring one in for a hobbyist with an appropriate tank...). My choices are generally hardy, small, colourful fishes, gobies, blennies, hardy angels, hardy tangs... the occasional predator - but most of my customers are reefkeepers so the predators are almost more for show - they aren't fast movers. People want fish that will get along and thrive -- and that's what I try to bring in.
Comparing my mortality numbers with somebody who brings in delicate fishes and may not necessarily know how to care for them is like comparing apples to bowling balls. A few weeks ago I went to the full-line shop in town, and they had a moorish idol (painfully thin) and a bunch of sickly looking butterflies... painful... Betcha my bottom line runs circles around theirs...
I have to concur with Steve -- we do squeak. Every dime is important. The most expensive fish is a dead fish -- yes there are some bad business people out there, who through ignorance, are wasteful of life and of resources... but typically they don't survive long.
If the problem can be appropriately pinned on the wholesaler, find another wholesaler. There should be no such thing as a "bad shipment". I've had losses of all or most of one specie in a shipment, and I notify my supplier and it's usually made right on the next order and they do what they need to do to correct the problem at their end or their supply end.
I did get one "bad batch" once... we got an extra dose of Vibrio.
When it was all said and done I had 16 fish left. Happened early on and luckily our store wasn't fully stocked yet... but we have the ability to nip something like that in the bud now. That's a risk of bringing in wild caught animals - pathogens that can be devastating. But that was the exception, not the rule.Jenn
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