Hobbiest comments to the MAC guys.

[clarionreef]

Mark,
40-45 divers per commercial training twice a month makes a 1,000 man training possible. But, not by the newbies and office people that comprise MACs new team. I fully understand however why this seems an impossible task for you.

Lino already knew this and tried to strike the deal w/ CORL and AMDA to farm it out to competents.. You and the anti CORL crowd shot it down and had it rescinded from the table and now you reap the reward for that strategy.
This could have saved the MAC routine of non-performance Mark and you [ and Pruess ] had a strong hand in sabatoging it behind the scenes.
Having kept MAC from co-operating with other groups seriously, look at what then transpired in the 2-3 years to follow...nothing of note at all.
With MACs track record of the past loosely training hardly 100 guys....they are in no position to discuss this seriously as equals. But this result is to be expected as its not what MAC does.

As Peter Scott once said MACs... a certification entity and was never ment to be a social development one. It is mis-cast in the task of fieldwork and livlihood enhancement for fisherfolk . The proof is in the pudding or lack thereof...and if after embarrassing amounts of time and effort...and cash you are still experimenting with this thing...you will still not get it right.

Like sports divers just trying to figure out how to spear fish...you will get some. You may even have fun and be proud of that little 2 lb snapper you catch.
But, if you had to live off what you produce, you will go out of business.
Commercial spearfisherman however, must produce 20 fish for everyone they they home to family as it is not a game and there is no money to fix the outboard and pay other expenses without sustained commercial productivity.
This is the extreme difference between comercials and non commercials. You have the finance and support to work this thing for year after year without catching on....
Will this be the year that Renato [ new country co-ordinator ] makes a difference where Mitra and Lino did not?
All you need to suceed is already there to be put together every year. The tipping point between success and failure is in the management of the thing. And that all in the hands of the city guys [ plus a new service guy ] in the staff meetings now isn't it?
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

I want me a job training Mac divers :idea: :lol:

btw, what does
they are in no position to discuss this seriously as equals mean ?

 

[clarionreef]

Like it said;
"you are still experimenting with this thing...you will still not get it right.

Like sports divers just trying to figure out how to spear fish...you will get some. You may even have fun and be proud of that little 2 lb snapper you catch.
But, if you had to live off what you produce, you will go out of business.
Commercial spearfisherman however, must produce 20 fish for everyone they they home to family as it is not a game and there is no money to fix the outboard and pay other expenses without sustained commercial productivity.
This is the extreme difference between comercials and non commercials
CF...I MENT AS IN...They are still trying to figure out a craft from scratch.
They are still beginners at the job; the implementation of paper, the ignition of motive and enthusiasm of divers, the production of results in a routine commercial manner, the prevention of divers from backsliding, the actual understanding of their own 'manual' that was put together as a book report from the experience of others etc. etc.
Although advanced at fund raising and spinning eco-speak into gold, they have been lost at sea for a very long time in terms of converting fisherfolk to sustainable methods.
Its their ball and they will do it their way...although as we have seen and as they have admited, they are having a hard time....
Something that experienced folk find rather easy.
The same money and time in the hands of others could've converted every fisherman in the world by now ...with change left over.

In all professional sports, you already know that weekend warriors and regular pro players are not the same [ equal ] :wink:
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

oh

 

[coralfarmin]

edit

 

[clarionreef]

:roll: :wink:

 

[coralfarmin]

I have to admit cortez

I have just actualy looked at the AMDA and MAC sites, other than just sporatic google search results.I really never knew who you were till now.
I'm afraid to fill out your application though, for fear of rejection.
How many divers have you trained this year?
Do you have some type of certified seal ?

I know, I need to read your site a little more
I still like MACs mission also

 

[clarionreef]

Its not about reef conservation,
and its sure not for the good of the trade!
Thats just the topic mix that the grant money is applied for.
If it were about reef conservation....this playing the flute while Rome burns would be seen as alarming. Rapid, effective results would be important.

You have a clue to the sincerity of a group the track record of their folks before working for the group ... [Zip all for the environment.]...and after.....[ya don't hear from em on the issue anymore. ]
It ain't a calling, a passion or a craft...Its a job of, for and about its core team members. Its very competitive and clique-ish.

Funders put money together and created MAC, MAMTI et al... to spend it.
The funders are different, outside the trade people then real true believers and their motives, goals and strategies are to.
Notice how a year or 5 of failure hardly fazes them? Imagine if a business or a football team did that? They fire football coaches for not having a winning season all the time.
...or is this just not that serious or significant???




Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

One thing in my opinion you are ahead on though for sure, cortez

The time you take here on this board is like in-kind service, I think its called..educating hobbyists

like when a mother donates time to a head start program, then they get their time as dollars to make up the part of the 20% required by the (fedz i think) but they dont cover, of the projected budjet in the grant proposal

I know, not to good of a analogy

 

[coralfarmin]

People make mistakes cortez, I think you and mark would coach a hell of a football team together :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

I played football...and therefore may coach better.
Marks better suited to the front office
Steve

 

[coralfarmin]

I'd sure love to go on dive training trips with both of you, and be the judge of that.
But hey, If thats the case, you'll always need a grant proposal writer, with the high costs of boat fuel :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I played football...and therefore may coach better.
Marks better suited to the front office Steve

:lol:

 

[Douglas S Lehman]

CF
If you decide to go dive training with Steve, don't forget your trunks as your libel to get WET!

 

[coralfarmin]

Got em, sunblock to, if we do any snorkling

It wont be my first rodeo, fish collecting

 

[mark@mac]

There's so much bs here I won't address it all but, with regard to the CORL situation...... They never even submitted thier proposal they promised. Therefore, were not considered serious. And besides, wouldn't that be just "city folks" from michigan trying to train collectors?

Steve, I asked for suggestions of collection areas. while your at it, why don't you suggest some trainers?

I think we already have some of your old guys you trained years ago.... But they may be afraid to admit it to you....

Is any other org working on this besides MAC? How about EASI? How is their training program going?

also, another serious issue you never talk about is whenever industry beats up the exporters on prices, it trickles down to beating up the collectors on prices.... you're part of that problem too....

2 to 5 pesos extra for a fish can make a big difference to the collector......
We should pay for fish we recieve.
We have to pay a little more for responsibly collected fish....

I'd love to play football with you..... : )

Mark

 

[clarionreef]

Mark,
You know that the CORL was the 'go-between' to allow all of us to work together.
Because you and Pruess were old competitors, ie. petty enemies w/ Mike King of CORL....you guys ruined the accord.
Lino mysteriously got sick, disappeared and missed the deadline to hand in the proposal....on orders.

If this issue was worth a few million to MAC, why is the training of cyanide fisherman taken so lightly. Why so slow, so cheap and so low priority?
You wrote;
"also, another serious issue you never talk about is whenever industry beats up the exporters on prices, it trickles down to beating up the collectors on prices.... you're part of that problem too....

2 to 5 pesos extra for a fish can make a big difference to the collector......
We should pay for fish we recieve.
We have to pay a little more for responsibly collected fish.... "

Mark, that took nerve.
When you were dealing in Michigan, you refrained from supporting all net caught dealers to save a few dollars. Remember?
Now you want dealers to do what you refused to do....
Still, I agree the divers should get more..
However, more money to certified exporters will not be passed on to the divers and you know it.
These few cents we're talking about is exactly why you lost Clarin and Batasan. Your own, [certified i]loyal exporters [/i]wouldn't support a better price to the divers.
Your own certified loyal importers wouldn't support the better price either.
In fact, how can you dare challenge anyone to do the right thing if you and yours refuse to?

Now that Linos era is over, a new one can begin.
Perhaps you can do more then the previous ones. This however suggests that the previous ones didn't perform so well.
In fact, you inherited a mess didn't you? AND ITS RECENT HISTORY.
Does this mean that our years of disagreement with MAC were justified then?
Radical departure from the past suggests that you agree with our judgement about it.
New sites, new trainers?
How bout some new netting while you're at it.
Congrats on finally getting some 3/8s inch monofilament. After denigrating me for pressuring for it here, you now adopt it. Do you also hand it out after every training?
How bout the handnetting. Got that also?
Can't train well w/out it so be careful of your answer.

Steve

 

[mark@mac]

Steve,

The certified collectors have set their own "new" prices.... they are getting more for their certified fish... This creates economic incentive for them to work toward a sustainable fishery.....

Why are Camotes fish junk? because of the minimal variety of spieces?
The fish coming from these MAC Certified sites are in high demand because of the quality in post harvest handling and are consequently fetching higher prices.....

I agree that none of the currently certified sites are "great" with regard to volume and/or variety, or accessability, there have certainly been some lessons learned.

Don't talk to me about what I did to save a few bucks..... I gladly paid top dollar for net caught, properly handled fish, I educated my customers as to why they cost more and did sell them at higher prices. You know, I've heard some interesting stories about some importers and this subject but I won't repeat in public.

Let's try to be nice, learn from past mistakes and may be work together on the important issues at hand for the future of the reefs, and the hobby..... Gee, what if all this money COULD be spent wisely?

Mark

 

[Mike King]

Well Steve, I still have the e-mail from Lino saying he got the proposal and the cover letter to BFAR’s Director Malcom Sarmiento, need I post it?

Personally I liked the first 300K budget proposal that was submitted where it provided food for the collectors and their families while being trained. How can the fishermen concentrate on learning when they are hungry and worrying about how they will be able to feed their families that night? If I remember correctly that proposal also included the equipment needed to do the CAMPS, the needed ecosystem management planning, heck, I think I even included CORL doing community awareness programs. (I'll dust it off and get it ready for submission to a new contact).

The MAC imposed a limit of 100K to teach 1000 and create the needed CAMPs LOL !!!!

look how much they have spent now trying to get it right.....and not even close to 1000 collectors trained.

CORL back in PI in 2006-7, sounds good to me

CORL has 2 funded projects going on here, and one contracted job, but I have a local student finishing up her Masters in Dec who can Run CORL-AS while I'm in PI. I should be able to do several 2-4 week long trips starting in 2006, and in 2007 I may be able to get away for up to 1-3 months at a time.

I will gladly donate my time again to help the collectors and communities in PI. heck I'll even help fund the project out of my pocket.

Horge you want to help?
Ferd, get ahold of the EASI members and let them know.
Lino your still a bro..... help out where you can.
I Still have a few more aces to play with in PI too :wink:

BTW Degress are Environmental Science, Env. Health, Biology, Chemistry, Geology and Microbiology. and I've been doing community based management work in the islands since 1999 when I started CORL. I may be from the city but I'm sure as heck not "city folk" I spend more time in the villages and on their reefs than anywhere else. I eat, sleep and live village life 24/7/365 now, I know and understand the problems better then most and through CORL I'm helping develop real solutions to them.


Mike R King

 

[coralfarmin]

Ok, Mike, Steve,Mark

What you guys seem to be saying is that the divers are not working to their full potintal, due to the fact that they are under stress from their lives of poverty ?
They want more money, since they feel that they are under compensated?
Their performance is not a negative reflection on them, but rather of their delegation?

thats every company :winkimo)

Huh...I think that I can relate, my character could be a intergal part of PI training :wink: