Clove Oil

[PeterIMA]

From: James M. Cervino
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:32 AM
To: Rubec, Peter
Subject: Fwd: Is this legal/ moral?

Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:22:19 -0400
To: coral-list-coral.aoml.noaa.gov
From: "James M. Cervino"
Subject: Is this legal/ moral?

Dear Craig & Li Ling,

I recently tested clove oil on A. pallida and the preliminary results indicate stress and high algal (zooxanthellae) cell division leading to loss of these symbiotic alga. This coupled with other results collected indicate clove oil and acetone are chemicals that can harm the already stressed reefs in the tropics. I strongly advise this method of capture not be used.

Do we not have laws in line to prevent this method of capture in PR? Can this be happening given all the information we have on chemical exposure to corals ?

Regards, James


From: "Koh Li Ling"
To: Roger.B.Griffis
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: clove oil
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002
Sender: [email protected]

Some of my lab mates have tried using clove oil to catch fishes at tide pools before and it works beautifully. Clove oil acts as an anaesthesia and temporarily knocks fishes out. Once they are placed in clean fresh seawater again, they will regain consciousness after some time.

This method is good for hard to catch and cryptic fishes such as bennies and gobies. We have got crustaceans before as well. However, the down side to this method is, it is only effective in enclosed areas (eg tidal pools). It won't work in the open seas or on reefs.

Usually clove oil is mixed with acetone in the ratio of 1:1 for the purpose of catching fishes.

Li Ling

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Roger B Griffis"
To: Craig Lilyestrom
CC: [email protected]
Subject: Re: clove oil
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002
Clove oil is a powerful sedative on crustaceans. Don't know anything about
its use in the field, but understand photographers use it to sedate
crustaceans for professional grade, close-up photos because it sedates
without effecting color patterns (= motionless subject in full natural color
patterns). No idea what other effects might be, or how long the effect
lasts.
Craig Lilyestrom wrote:
> If anyone has information about the potential effect of clove oil (as
> used as an aid to collection of reef fish specimens) on corals or
> other marine organisms, I would appreciate your sharing it with me.
> If it has no negative effect, of course I'd like to know that also.
>
> Thank you,
Craig
*****************************
> Craig G. Lilyestrom, Ph.D.
> Director, Marine Resources Division
> Department of Natural and Environmental Resources
> San Juan, P.R. 00906-6600

************************************
James M. Cervino
PhD. Program
Marine Science Program
University of South Carolina
*************************************

 

[PeterIMA]

From: aquarium de la reunion
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002
To: Rubec, Peter
Subject: Re: Use of Clove Oil

Dear colleague,

Thank you for your interest in the article on the use of clove oil. Here are
the answers to your questions :

1) We have not used clove oil in the sea, so i cannot help you more on this
matter. I simply think you should use a thinner like ethanol for exemple.

2) The recovery time increases with the dosage. In our experimentation there
was roughly 70 sec. for 0.05 ml.l-1 and 120 sec. for 200 ml.l-1. They were
also different between the two species : - at 0.05 ml.l-1 the recovery time
for Valamugil cunnesius is 50 sec. while that of the Monodactylus argenteus
is 90 sec.

3) I don't have any information on the effects of clove oil in relation to
stress hormone production by the fish. The treated fish in our experiment
did not show any particular behaviour. They were able to eat normally the
following day.

Best wishes for the new year.

Patrick DURVILLE
Aquarium de La Réunion
Port de plaisance de St-Gilles
97434 St-Gilles
Ile de La Réunion

Laboratoire d'Ecologie Marine
Université de La Réunion
97715 Saint-Denis

 

[PeterIMA]

To: Rubec, Peter
Subject: Clove Oil

FYI on Clove oil

================
Clove oil confusion

Clove oil is not an ingredient of Aqui-S so far as I know. Neither is it
exactly the same as eugenol. The US Dispensatory (25th Edn) states that
clove oil from natural sources is mainly composed of eugenol, plus small
amounts of vanillin, isoeugenol, methyl alcohol and furfurol (to name a few; the exact composition will vary).

According to a Material Safety data sheet for Aqui-S, the only sedative
ingredient is 2-methoxy-4-propenylphenol, which in the Merck Index and most chemical catalogues is the description for isoeugenol. Isoeugenol occurs naturally in clove, nutmeg and some other oils. It can also be prepared by reaction starting with eugenol. It's my understanding from suppliers ofisoeugenol that most of it is of synthetic origin, not via the natural clove-oil-to-eugenol route.

Several scientific papers in the public literature report that eugenol is
widely accepted in the world by regulatory agencies as Generally Recognized As Safe. Clove oil has obvious history as a human analgesic and breath freshener, and is the major constituent of clove cigarettes smoked in the Far East. There are also several papers reporting successful use of unrefined clove oil or eugenol on fish species. I have not seen analogous papers on isoeugenol (other than reports using Aqui-S).

Where it gets difficult for aquaculturists is in the use of clove oil and
derivatives on cultured species destined for human consumption. Some
regulators take the position that unless a specific product has passed
dedicated testing for use on a species, it is considered unapproved for the
application regardless of whether it has GRAS designation. Aqui-S has such approvals in certain countries.

Could someone from the NZ distributor of Aqui-S elaborate on Dr. Bell's
statement concerning toxic compounds occurring in clove oil, and the other posting which stated that the active ingredient of Aqui-S is not a component of clove oil? Meanwhile, it would behoove us all to be precise in terminology and not say clove oil when we mean eugenol etc. etc.


Henrik Kreiberg
Research Biologist
Canadian Department of Fisheries & Oceans

 

[PeterIMA]

From: KreibergH@
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002
To: Rubec, Peter
Subject: RE: Clove Oil

Dear Peter - see replies with each q

-----Original Message-----
From: Rubec, Peter
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002
To: 'KreibergH
Subject: RE: Clove Oil

Dear Heinrik, I guess I still have some questions since I did not
participate on the internet dicussions.

1) My understanding from reading the website concerning Aqui-S is that that fish (trout, salmon?) have a fast recovery time from exposure to isoeuginol (and Aqui-S). This seems to differ from clove oil or euginol which has a slow recovery time compared to other anaesthetics (Munday and Wilson 1997.
Is this a correct statement?

HK - I don't think you will see much difference in recovery-time between the compounds if the effective dose (time for the fish to reach whatever stage you needed) is the same for each one. For chum and chinook salmon I saw no difference. Clove-origin compounds seem to have a somewhat slower recovery time than say MS-222, but it should not be a problem in most cases, and plenty of other anaesthetics (e.g. alcohols) are similarly slowish.

2) My understanding from reading about Aqui-S is that it is fully water
soluble. This appears to differ from euginol which should be dissolved in
alcohol [although Durville and Patrick were able to prepare a solution (of
euginol?) from Eugenia stems, buds, and leaves without the use of alcohol].

HK - Right for Aqui-S, thanks to the polymer it is mixed with. All pure
clove compounds dissolve nicely in salt/fresh water if mixed up with 3-4
volumes of ethanol first, which is far too little alcohol to affect the
fish.

3) Do you think it is feasible that the Eugenia could be grown and used in
poor coastal villages to allow the fisherfolk to prepare anaesthetic
solutions to collect ornamental marine-aquarium fish? Or would it be better
for an NGO like the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) to obtain
isoeuginol or Aqui-S and distribute it to village fishermen?

HK - possibly, it is a common plant through much of the Orient and in other temperate zones of the world; myrtle and several other related plants also yield clove oil. I would still look seriously at isoeugenol by the drum, it is made synthetically in vast quantities for cosmetic fragrances and food additives and the cost is very low for an anaesthetic. One hazard you might not expect, clove cigarettes are a popular light drug in Indonesia, you might find your villagers being creative with a barrel of isoeugenol.

-----Original Message-----
From: KreibergH
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001
To: Rubec, Peter
Subject: RE: Clove Oil

Dear Peter

I have worked with various clove-oil products/components, including the oil itself; you sound as if you already recognize the distinctions between them. Aqui-S, a commercial preparation of isoeugenol and a high-molecular-wt polymer for general therapeutic benefit, is marketed in NZ and Tasmania. Thus far their FDA application is still in progress, so you should probably inquire with someone knowledgable about US regs to see if you can use it as you suggest. From my research experience with coldwater salmonids, halibut and sablefish, it seems to be a
good product, and from a common sense perspective, authorities should
welcome a switch from sodium cyanide to isoeugenol, but you never know with authorities. One other caution, there are some papers on isoeugenol/eugenol use on medaka and some other warmwater species, but you should probably plan to do a bit of trial and error work yourself before making a switch, as there is very little known about the pharmacology in various species. And, there are still some user-hazards, it does have a strong smell and there are documented cases of skin/mucous membrane sensitivities to clove-oil products.

Hope this helps. There is only one source for Aqui-S, but numerous sources for isoeugenol, and by the barrel the latter becomes quite economical.

Henrik Kreiberg
Research Biologist


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rubec, Peter
> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001
> To: 'Henrik Kreiberg'
> Subject: Clove Oil

> Dear Dr. Kreiberg, I received a copy of one of your email messages, that may have come from an internet discussion concerning the use of clove oil for anaethetizing/sedating marine fish. Subsequently, I obtained a number of the papers that appeared in the scientific literature over the past few years. Your email implies that there is a commercial product (Aqui-S) that contains the derivative of clove oil that has anaesthetizing properties (eugenol, and/or isoeugonol). Can you provide more information concerning whether there is a commerical product being marketed for use of these chemicals for collection and/or sedation of marine fish. My interest is whether eugenol can be used as an alternative to sodium cyanide for the collection of ornamental marine fish for the aquarium trade. I welcome your comments on these matters.
>
> Sincerely,
> Peter Rubec, Ph.D
> Research Scientist

 

[Anonymous]

the main point that our clove oil proponent seems to not be getting is that it discourages the use of nets, yet again, as does cyanide-its relative toxicity is moot, really


nets are the best way-why even bother to look for anything else, if for nothing other than laziness born out of a misconception that netting is more labor intensive? with the right learned techniques, it's the easiest way to catch fish, and simply not harmful in any way at all- no testing necessary

 

[dizzy]

According to Eric Borneman net collectors do more damage to the corals than cyanide collectors.

 

[PeterIMA]

Dizzy, Eric Borneman does not know what he is talking about. Cyanide is very detrimental to corals as demonstrated by the the laboratory and field studies by Dr. James Cervino and by Dr. Ross Jones. Steve and I have also documented other information (based on interviews with collectors and BFAR study) that the cyanide kills the corals.

I am not sure whether Eric Koch actually saw the collectors using clove oil dissolved with alcohol, or one of the synthetic derivatives (like isoeugonol or eugonol). So far as I know clove oil is a viscous liquid, not crystals as stated in Koch's posting. In any event, I accept that further studies should be conducted to assess the impacts of clove oil or the chemical derivatives on corals.

Peter Rubec

 

[Kalkbreath]

Then you also agree that cold turkey is the only rout for smokers ?
Were talking about people who have never known any other way.
Go dear hunting with a net.
or better yet open a termite removel service which only uses nets.
This is the their world, either offer a better alternative which they might actually try............or stop waisting resources banging your head.
Chemical fishing is here to stay , its like telling the termite guy to use hand nets........he is going to look at you like your crazy. Smile to make you feel better and then as soon as you leave talk about you behind your back and take out the chemicals.
Its time for a new approach.

 

[clarionreef]

Thats an unbelieveable thing to say...
not to mention false by a factor of 10 X's easily unless hes referring to certain areas in the South Pacific where crowbars have taken hold as dealers remain mute on the sidelines. But thats crowbar collecting, not net collecting.
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

We seem to love to over look the issue of concentrations.
You can use both chemicals and not harm the corals.
Try .0000000002 PPM and you will find zero effects.
Finding the minimum level which still works seems to be the last thing in mind during these tests.....why?
Net pushers make poor scientists.

 

[clarionreef]

Kalk,
Many of your coveted livestock from the South Pacific came from the cold turkey crowd of former Filipino dopers.
They took to nets easily and have become so proficient at their new craft as to be the hootest new way to open a station anywhere in the world these days.
From all dope to all nets is an easy transition for the guys to make.
It just depends on the soundness of the program of the transition.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

From a thread on RC speaking about a quote in Corlmania II. Eric says:


"In that quote, I meant that improperly trained net collectors swim after fish and snag corals with nets and break them and over time cause more damage to habitat (specifically coral habitat) than is caused by the use of chemicals. In the second part, I meant what it says...there are numerous fish anaesthetics available that are not deadly poisons to divers, fish and corals."

{Snip, snip}

__________________
Eric Borneman

 

[Anonymous]

We seem to love to over look the issue of concentrations.
You can use both chemicals and not harm the corals.
Try .0000000002 PPM and you will find zero effects.
Finding the minimum level which still works seems to be the last thing in mind during these tests.....why?
Net pushers make poor scientists.

and lfs owner cyanide apologists make atrocious logicians, mathematicians, and quoters

 

[Tropic]

Vitz-

dont appreciate your snide remarks, you obviously dont understand the topic of this thread and only are interested in sounding like a purist.

Peter,
Thank you for your efforts, they are appreciated. You are well informed on this topic and it shows. I just heard back from my good friend(collector overseas) who i went collecting with and here is what he said.

"The clove oil is known as Eugenol. It is made from the stems,leaves and other foliage making it cheaper. Depending on the size and resistance of the fish the eugenol can be mixed from 20 to 80%eugenol balance being metho. The smaller the fish, the faster they fall and much less is required.I prefer 60% eugenol for a broad assortment of fish.
Quinaldine has been used "neat" and in sulphate versions.Long term toxicity is close to 100% over a 5 month holding period. Fish show signs of muscle deteriation and organ failure which are common effects.
Clove oil is sourced from two different locations, one in Singapore who do bulk amounts and another in Sydney,AU. The Sydney office is KL KOH and their phone # 62 296026828"

For whatever reasons, the eugenol will form crystals like rock salt. I am not sure if this is a reaction between the ethanol or if this was the bottom of his drum. I can ask.

To anyone wondering:
No one is saying nets should be replaced. If you feel this is what i am saying, please review the thread carefully...It is not my intentions to undermine Steve,Peter, or anyone else who genuinely cares about the reefs....these guys are doing the right thing. All i am saying is that this could be a good substitute for the guys who are squirting cyanide until they can be provided with nets and trained or convinced that nets are the way to go. I am merely being realistic, and understand that reality frightens some folks.

For what it is worth... nets in untrained hands do damage reefs, i have seen it on many occasions. Unskilled fishermen do break a lot of coral creating unconsolidated rubble which rolls around and damages other corals. The effects are minimal and probably cause no long term damage. The point is that nothing is perfect when you are extracting unwilling animals from their aqueous enviroment. The physical enviroment can be very challenging to work within but i am sure once the fishermen are trained up they will do minimal impact and have high yeilds, until then lets keep all dialogue and options open until cyandide is a thing of the past

Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz-

dont appreciate your snide remarks, you obviously dont understand the topic of this thread and only are interested in sounding like a purist.

Peter,
Thank you for your efforts, they are appreciated. You are well informed on this topic and it shows. I just heard back from my good friend(collector overseas) who i went collecting with and here is what he said.

"The clove oil is known as Eugenol. It is made from the stems,leaves and other foliage making it cheaper. Depending on the size and resistance of the fish the eugenol can be mixed from 20 to 80%eugenol balance being metho. The smaller the fish, the faster they fall and much less is required.I prefer 60% eugenol for a broad assortment of fish.
Quinaldine has been used "neat" and in sulphate versions.Long term toxicity is close to 100% over a 5 month holding period. Fish show signs of muscle deteriation and organ failure which are common effects.
Clove oil is sourced from two different locations, one in Singapore who do bulk amounts and another in Sydney,AU. The Sydney office is KL KOH and their phone # 62 296026828"

For whatever reasons, the eugenol will form crystals like rock salt. I am not sure if this is a reaction between the ethanol or if this was the bottom of his drum. I can ask.

To anyone wondering:
No one is saying nets should be replaced. If you feel this is what i am saying, please review the thread carefully...It is not my intentions to undermine Steve,Peter, or anyone else who genuinely cares about the reefs....these guys are doing the right thing. All i am saying is that this could be a good substitute for the guys who are squirting cyanide until they can be provided with nets and trained or convinced that nets are the way to go. I am merely being realistic, and understand that reality frightens some folks.

For what it is worth... nets in untrained hands do damage reefs, i have seen it on many occasions. Unskilled fishermen do break a lot of coral creating unconsolidated rubble which rolls around and damages other corals. The effects are minimal and probably cause no long term damage. The point is that nothing is perfect when you are extracting unwilling animals from their aqueous enviroment. The physical enviroment can be very challenging to work within but i am sure once the fishermen are trained up they will do minimal impact and have high yeilds, until then lets keep all dialogue and options open until cyandide is a thing of the past

Thank you

your lack of appreciation notwithstanding, i understand exactly what this thread is about, and i'm not particuarly interested in sounding like anything in particular

i disagree with your assertion (that clove oil use should be even looked at). and i think that the pursuit of 'easy fixes' when there already is one out there (just may not be used properly, across the board, re: technique)

i also disagree that any method other than nets, used properly, is necessary, or more efficient than nets

you don't have to agree with, or even like, my opinion, but the chutzpah to claim i don't understand you, and that you know what my mental motivation thought processes are is nothing short of a childish retort

show me where your method would be superior to catching fish by hand properly-all the way down the long term health line-for the fish, the coral, and the hobbyist's pocket-to say nothing of the environment

a properly used net does no damage to anything at all, (other than to the divers carbonic acid level, mebbe, in an arm not used to the work )for any period of time-no chemical can make that claim-not clove oil, cyanide, quinaldine-nothing !


which would be worse, un/improperly trained netters, or un/uimproperly trained squirters? :idea:

 

[clarionreef]

"improperly trained squirters? " :roll:
He's got a point.
Yes, I 've seen that. They're called children and have been employed all over the Philippines to catch fish with poison for many years.
Steve

 

[Tropic]

your lack of appreciation notwithstanding, i understand exactly what this thread is about, and i'm not particuarly interested in sounding like anything in particular

:lol:

i disagree with your assertion (that clove oil use should be even looked at). and i think that the pursuit of 'easy fixes' when there already is one out there (just may not be used properly, across the board, re: technique)

I disagree with your assertion that getting ALL fishermen to use nets is a "easy fix"....if it was so easy, we wouldnt be having this discussion because we would be having too much fun observing the plethora of net caught fish in our aquariums.

i also disagree that any method other than nets, used properly, is necessary, or more efficient than nets

I agree with you on this statement except for the necessary part. How long has the net issue been going? How many NGO's have squandered the money and blundered the cause? Meanwhile, many reefs you, and I care about are being poisoned by cyanide and it could be potentially stopped by just letting the divers know that there is something that is much safer.(This is if long term studies deemed it to be safe for live capture and it proved to be cost effective, which it seems like it would be)

you don't have to agree with, or even like, my opinion, but the chutzpah to claim i don't understand you, and that you know what my mental motivation thought processes are is nothing short of a childish retort



show me where your method would be superior to catching fish by hand properly-all the way down the long term health line-for the fish, the coral, and the hobbyist's pocket-to say nothing of the environment

I dont have a method. I have not used the stuff. I merely watched one of my friends using it collecting fish a couple of times over a three week period. What do you consider long term health? Like I said, i still have some of these clove oil caught fishes. They act just like net caught fish. The coral appeared to be fine by me. I saw no stress response, mesenterial filaments,bleaching etc on short term observation. I consider myself very knowledgable with corals both in aquariums and in the wild, worldwide. Long term effects need to be studied further...this has been one aspect of this discussion i think everyone agrees on :roll:

a properly used net does no damage to anything at all, (other than to the divers carbonic acid level, mebbe, in an arm not used to the work )for any period of time-no chemical can make that claim-not clove oil, cyanide, quinaldine-nothing !

Scientists havent proven it either way...this is what we are discussing, i thought you understood this thread :lol:


which would be worse, un/improperly trained netters, or un/uimproperly trained squirters?

Close minded pinheads who cant follow a thread!

 

[clarionreef]

Eric,
Out of 20 some odd countries that collect fish, nets are the norm in almost all of them.
Theres no debate on it. Nets catch anything and everything you want.
Even small, cryptic, burrow dwellers and gobies and blennies by the thousands from the...
Solomons ,
Marshals,
Nicaragua,
Costa Rica,
St Croix,
Tahiti,
Ponape,
Australia,
Tonga,
Kirabati,
Cook Islands,
Vanuatu,
Mexico,
Brazil,
Sri Lanka,
Maldives,
Dominican Republic,
Kenya,
Saudi Arabia,
Guam,
Egypt,
Fiji,
Hawaii... etc.
Clearly... 'Catchability' or disposition of the fisherman to learn to use nets is not the issue at all.

The issue is the unfortunate tradition in the long term dictatorships of Indo and the Philippines.
But even there we have exciting breakthrus in the private enterprise trainings in Les village of Bali and the Australian inspired developments in Cebu.
Anything can be caught with nets. Thats just an old fact and a daily reality.
Just because non commercial ngo people can't train divers to the standard in the rest of the world doesn't make a case for clove oil.
Its simply proves the case against such groups inadequacy for the role.
Commercial people do daily in two dozen countries what ngos wish they could just do once ...in one.
And....they make and support the netsmanship for free.
Its just a routine adjunct to doing normal business.
This is why some of us "commercials" are jealous of an ngos ability and nerve to make so much money out of this. They make business out of what we do much, much better and for for free.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

your lack of appreciation notwithstanding, i understand exactly what this thread is about, and i'm not particuarly interested in sounding like anything in particular

:lol:

i disagree with your assertion (that clove oil use should be even looked at). and i think that the pursuit of 'easy fixes' when there already is one out there (just may not be used properly, across the board, re: technique)

I disagree with your assertion that getting ALL fishermen to use nets is a "easy fix"....if it was so easy, we wouldnt be having this discussion because we would be having too much fun observing the plethora of net caught fish in our aquariums.

i also disagree that any method other than nets, used properly, is necessary, or more efficient than nets

I agree with you on this statement except for the necessary part. How long has the net issue been going? How many NGO's have squandered the money and blundered the cause? Meanwhile, many reefs you, and I care about are being poisoned by cyanide and it could be potentially stopped by just letting the divers know that there is something that is much safer.(This is if long term studies deemed it to be safe for live capture and it proved to be cost effective, which it seems like it would be)

you don't have to agree with, or even like, my opinion, but the chutzpah to claim i don't understand you, and that you know what my mental motivation thought processes are is nothing short of a childish retort



show me where your method would be superior to catching fish by hand properly-all the way down the long term health line-for the fish, the coral, and the hobbyist's pocket-to say nothing of the environment

I dont have a method. I have not used the stuff. I merely watched one of my friends using it collecting fish a couple of times over a three week period. What do you consider long term health? Like I said, i still have some of these clove oil caught fishes. They act just like net caught fish. The coral appeared to be fine by me. I saw no stress response, mesenterial filaments,bleaching etc on short term observation. I consider myself very knowledgable with corals both in aquariums and in the wild, worldwide. Long term effects need to be studied further...this has been one aspect of this discussion i think everyone agrees on :roll:

a properly used net does no damage to anything at all, (other than to the divers carbonic acid level, mebbe, in an arm not used to the work )for any period of time-no chemical can make that claim-not clove oil, cyanide, quinaldine-nothing !

Scientists havent proven it either way...this is what we are discussing, i thought you understood this thread :lol:


which would be worse, un/improperly trained netters, or un/uimproperly trained squirters?

Close minded pinheads who cant follow a thread!

i think kalk has a potential new future employee

 

[mark@mac]

Deleterious Substances



MAC and MSC Certification Schemes are based on the UN FAO Code of Conduct for Responsible Fisheries



http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.a ... 878e00.htm



In clause 8.4.2 this states……



8.4.2 States should prohibit dynamiting, poisoning and other comparable destructive fishing practices.



This is taken by most fisheries experts to be interpreted as the use of any chemicals for fishing. This clause in the past has been used by fishing authorities to ban fresh water, bleach and coca cola for things such as octopus fishing where the octopus is driven out of its liar by the sudden change in pH produced by these things.





CREST and IMA



Peter Scott first introduced me to the CREST program. He said it was a superb program and fantastically successful in achieving education on the marine environment for fishers, teachers and schools alike. The IMA training methods used were excellent as implemented by Ferdinand, Nympha and Karina of IMA and highly professional.