What can be done - split from 'livestock suppliers list'

[Anonymous]

You may have implied that, but you sure didn't write that Vitz

Rich, they do certify Fiji, just visit MAC's website. They have plans for HI as well. They tried for Baja, but it didn't really fly.

 

[Anonymous]

from:
http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/

MAC CERTIFIED EXPORTERS

FIJI
Aquarium Fish (Fiji) Ltd.
P.O. Box 19
Deuba
Fiji
Contact: Tony Nahacky
Email: [email protected]
Walt Smith International Ltd.
PO Box 4466
Lautoka, Fiji Islands
Tel. +679 6665045
Fax +679 6667591
Email: [email protected]

 

[sdcfish]

Guys,

Like Gresham says....there are plenty of "clean" fish coming from the majority of countries that export, and also many "clean" fish coming from the PI and Indo. We see that every day with our imports and low doa's, daa's, customer feedback etc.

Think back to the "conservation thread" that many people involved in Reefcheck were participating in. I found it interesting that more people didn't take advantage when the real front line people were involved and answered the questions.

Anyway, Reefcheck has recently had 6 or more areas in the PI saved as protected areas, and more will come. This is one way we can ensure that progress is made to protect our (worlds) reefs and also will help keep the industry sustainable by implementing fisheries management plans.

Our Hawaii supplier will be MAC certified in weeks or less, so we will have plenty of certified Hawaii fish, and this year we will start selling the Mac fish from our PI suppliers as certified as well.

Regardless of what a few people say here, there has been much progress from Mac, and we support what they have done and realize the true timeline that this type of effort and task is all about.

If people here want to help and get involved, then do it! We have chosen to support Mac and personally get involved with Reefcheck. Protect coral reefs, and develop a fisheries management plan. This seems to be the logical and needed efforts.

Like Thales comments so often about not seeing any suggestions or positive comments. It's just the same old negativity we have been hearing for decades. Thankfully, it's only a few that don't see the future and vision that Mac, Reefcheck, and Mamti are diligently working towards.

If we represent industry, or a portion of it, at least we know that the suppliers we support and receive product from are professionals and can provide us with very healthy fish, at reasonable prices. We don't buy from losers, why would we?

I am not saying that Reefcheck is the only org that we should support, but you have to start somewhere, and I can personally tell you that this group is where I have decided to put my efforts and heart into.

I found this thread interesting, but sad at the same time that more people don't see the positives that are happening within the industry and coral reefs around the world.

Anyone interested, please visit the website to learn more www.reefcheck.org

Best regards

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Eric and Gresh.
I think maybe MAC and Reefcheck need another chance. At the very least, the seem to be trying to do something, and as far as I can tell, not many others actually are.

I think I am tired of rehashing the past, and much more interested in putting efforts into moving forward from here.

 

[Anonymous]

I received two pms from Peter.

The first asks me to call him to discuss something - I am not sure what but something about MAF (the message was unclear).
The second tells me not to bother because I have floated the idea that maybe MAC and Reefcheck should get another chance.

I find this annoying enough and unprofessional enough and Jr High enough to post about here.

Why someone couldn't support two different ideas is beyond me, and if this is the way people who are trying to help the industry think, the whole thing just might be doomed.

 

[Anonymous]

:? wow, guess I'm not that suprised though. It's just another example of why nothing has happenned from the "regulars" on this site in recent years, othen then basicly pilot projects and minor commercial trainings for small select groups. If people could build some bridges, we may be able to get OVER THIS all ready.

No matter though. The inactivity has gone on long enough. IMO the Dem's now in charge will give the USCRTF some teeth, and the US MAF industry will be slapped with regulations like its never seen before. The only ones to blame, is the ones who blocked anything from happenning, and you all know who you are.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Thanks Eric and Gresh.
I think maybe MAC and Reefcheck need another chance. At the very least, the seem to be trying to do something, and as far as I can tell, not many others actually are.

I think I am tired of rehashing the past, and much more interested in putting efforts into moving forward from here.

Thales,

There are two situations happening in the Philippines:

-One is the EASTI project by Ferdinand-Peter which seems is lacking of support from fish buyers and is having other problems as posted by Peter a while ago.

-The other is MAC's project which has had some problems but is getting support from fish buyers overseas. Is encouraging to know that this year Eric's company will get certified PI fish from his suppliers. I must admit that I have had moments of "doubt" regarding to what is happening with MAC, but also have reconsidered my position given the fact that I know "first hand" how difficult is to work in the Philippines' context.

I think that MAC made a mistake by trying to put the certification program first in the Philippines, along with Indonesia are the most difficult places to work. However, they are working to fix the "bugs". I think this is the option that has more potential to make a difference.

 

[Anonymous]

let's all remember that mac's 'certification' means absolutely NOTHING vis-a-vis whether or not a fish is indeed cyanide free-ALL it means is that a fish is kept according to a specific paperwork protocol-and that protocol itself shows and proves NOTHING, really, other than paperwork is being kept
:lol: :roll:

and i've heard NOTHING to indicate that ANYONE has addressed those basic issues which were posed as q's directly to holthus on #reefs a few years back

so how is anything mac certified 'good news' ?

 

[Anonymous]

And with out yet again rehashing the past Vitz, what is your idea on moving this subject forward? This is NOT a MAC bashing thread, it's a "What can be done" thread

 

[Anonymous]

as i said-my honest opinion is that it doesn't make a difference-i think everyone's efforts should be directed to reversing global warming and pollution-otherwise we're just pissin in the wind, for catching without poison leaves us with nothing if there's nothing left to catch to begin with-would i have given this answer 30 years ago? no.

but today's reality is far far different than what it was in 1980.

if each of you stopped 50 people from driving a car, or did the quivalent via convincing 150 to carpool, i'll bet that would be almost as effective as the contribution you could make directly to reef conservation through a fish purchase, and it would have even wider ranging benefits, to boot-for the planet, and by extension, for the reefs

go out and nag your congressmen to get pollution/dumping stopped, or getting resort golf courses built right next to a reef, etc

those are faaar more important and pressing, imho.

 

[Anonymous]

Fine, you should visit those forums then(global warming). This one is DEVOTED to MO topics

I know it's hard for a sumper with 12K posts to understand the Reefs.org is well, a REEF site :lol:

 

[Piero]

true there are plenty of significant nonpoint sources of reef degredation...but we're talking about what can be done actively and directly within our trade, realistically. I don't really support the idea that it's pointless to do anything trade-specific because pollution and agricultural runnof still exist across the globe. A good point and something we all need to be aware of, but not a reason to not do anything within our trade.

And I suspect that donating funds to responsible NGOs is another way to tackle those problems Vitz.

So if there was a livestock reclamation tax, or if every lfs donated a dollar from every purchase towards reef conservation efforts (even if that money goes towards lobbying congress to address climate change and agricultural runnof)
_________________
safe investing

 

[bookfish]

I think it would be difficult to ask LFS' to contribute to anything beyond their own short term survival. Right now most LFS' in my area are barely squeaking by. As always, I am dubious about private companies doing something just because it's the (apparently) "right" thing to do. Many reefers in my area seem to be so price fixated that they'll even buy animals from inhumane LFS' just to save a buck or 2. Sadly, most American reef keepers don't seem to be able to differentiate between price and cost.-Jim

 

[Piero]

I'd support a steep mandatory conservation tax in a heartbeat. You really can't count on people to do the right thing without being forced.
_________________
America's Next Top Model Forum

 

[Anonymous]

Fine, you should visit those forums then(global warming). This one is DEVOTED to MO topics

I know it's hard for a sumper with 12K posts to understand the Reefs.org is well, a REEF site :lol:

every word i've posted is highly relevant to reefs and the MO trade-the fact that you seem to fail to see that is why this hobby will be doomed within 50-75 years, imo

hobbyists never see the true big picture-they're only able to focus on their little microcosm, remaining oblivious to the tidal wave crashing on down over their heads

 

[dizzy]

You can fault the Bush administration for failure to impose stricter environmental controls sure enough............. however if we make US companies unable to compete favorably on price with foreign manufacturing as a result of such changes.......... then our whole economy goes down the drain. It may well save the reefs since none of us will be working or have the money to buy MAF or corals any longer. 8O

 

[Anonymous]

Fine, you should visit those forums then(global warming). This one is DEVOTED to MO topics

I know it's hard for a sumper with 12K posts to understand the Reefs.org is well, a REEF site :lol:

every word i've posted is highly relevant to reefs and the MO trade-the fact that you seem to fail to see that is why this hobby will be doomed within 50-75 years, imo

hobbyists never see the true big picture-they're only able to focus on their little microcosm, remaining oblivious to the tidal wave crashing on down over their heads

We're doomed! Don't do anything unless you have a magic bullet to fix every problem inside and outside your bailiwick! Keep using resources as quick as possible because we're doomed! Remember its really all pointless because the Rapture is coming! :wink:

 

[naesco]

I'd support a steep mandatory conservation tax in a heartbeat. You really can't count on people to do the right thing without being forced.

Interesting positive thread by many posters but the winner is Piero.

Lets face it industry will not change unless it is forced to. There can be no disagreement about that if anyone is truely concerned about the quality of the reefs, corals fish and other critters.

And just one concern in a thread led by you.
Since when do PMs, their contents and their sender no longer be private messages.

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

I'd support a steep mandatory conservation tax in a heartbeat. You really can't count on people to do the right thing without being forced.

Interesting positive thread by many posters but the winner is Piero.

Lets face it industry will not change unless it is forced to. There can be no disagreement about that if anyone is truely concerned about the quality of the reefs, corals fish and other critters.

That seems like just another version of 'if you don't do it the way I think it should be done, your aren't truly concerned and the problem won't get fixed'. I think we would all be better served if we thought of ways to help each other than ways to tell each other how wrong we think they are.

And just one concern in a thread led by you.
Since when do PMs, their contents and their sender no longer be private messages.

Wayne Ryan

Apparently when they get "annoying enough and unprofessional enough and Jr High enough" to cause someone to feel the need to approach the line of acceptable internet decorum. If I cut and pasted the actual exchanges I would spank myself. As it stands, I think it was the same as relaying a conversation, and that happens all the time and no one blinks an eye.

 

[dizzy]

I'm not sure I understand the subtlety between the two.
Mitch