Heeeelllpp!!! lol

[Killerdrgn]

A skimmer isn't a necessary piece for survival either.

Keeping a reef tank isn't about what you should get first. You should have all of your equipment ready before putting livestock in the tank. I'm not talking about cycling the tank here.

Granted, fine I could have put salt instead of a skimmer.

But the question really comes down to if she had this tank cycled today. What does she need RIGHT now to make it reef capable. Is a controller something she needs today or something she could get six months down the line. That would be the defninition of necessary equipment vs optional. And even then I would put skimmer in front of controller. Heck technically she wouldn't even need timers if she felt like turning on the lights every morning manually.

 

[beerfish]

Yeah... you're right. Why bother with powerheads either. I'm going to run my reef dirt cheap and just stir my water all day.

The point is, a controller will run about $70 more than timers for the lights. If you can't afford the $70, you have no business starting a reef tank that size.

 

[Wes]

Yeah... you're right. Why bother with powerheads either. I'm going to run my reef dirt cheap and just stir my water all day.

The point is, a controller will run about $70 more than timers for the lights. If you can't afford the $70, you have no business starting a reef tank that size.

The difference is even less than $70 when u factor in the cost of a power strip and thermometer


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[Killerdrgn]

Yeah... you're right. Why bother with powerheads either. I'm going to run my reef dirt cheap and just stir my water all day.

The point is, a controller will run about $70 more than timers for the lights. If you can't afford the $70, you have no business starting a reef tank that size.

Now you're just going into hyperbole.

But you really don't need 2 timers for the lights either, you can just get 1 and use a splitter. This is starting to really sound like the second grade wants vs needs lesson. When you think of coral survival, what does it need to actually survive. Lights, water, salt, calcium, alkalinity, low nutrients, flow, and heat. Does a controller actually provide any of those things. No, does it help maintain those things after you get the equipment that provides those things, yes. Can she have a fully functional reef tank without a controller for 1 year or more, probably yes. I don't think that any of us are saying that a controller is totally useless, but is it something that she can get later on when she has a little more invested in the tank, yes.

 

[Killerdrgn]

The difference is even less than $70 when u factor in the cost of a power strip and thermometer


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heck it's even more if you just get one of the cheaper light timers. and get one of the many power strips that are thrown out in the garbage every day.

The main question that you're not answering is, assuming the tank is cycled, if she were to put a fish into the tank, without a controller would the fish still be alive 1 day from now, 1 month from now, 1 year from now. Without any of the necessary equipment the answer would be a highly likely no.

And no I am not being hypocritical about the BP shutoff valve, because that cannot be installed after the fact. If she could not install a controller after the tank was started, then I would be recommending like you guys are to get the controller now.

 

[Shannon_D]

hahahahahahaha yeah definitely!!!

 

[beerfish]

The main question that you're not answering is, assuming the tank is cycled, if she were to put a fish into the tank, without a controller would the fish still be alive 1 day from now, 1 month from now, 1 year from now. Without any of the necessary equipment the answer would be a highly likely no.

If a heater sticks... no the fish would not be alive. Since they have notoriously high failure rates, it becomes requirement. Do you need seat belts to drive a car? No, but I sure as hell don't drive without one.

 

[Wes]

heck it's even more if you just get one of the cheaper light timers. and get one of the many power strips that are thrown out in the garbage every day now.

Heck, those savings disappear when her house burns down.


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[Killerdrgn]

If a heater sticks... no the fish would not be alive. Since they have notoriously high failure rates, it becomes requirement. Do you need seat belts to drive a car? No, but I sure as hell don't drive without one.

crappy heaters have high failure rates. Even with Stealth's, if she gets 2 smaller heaters instead of 1 big heater in a 75 gallon, she'll probably notice the tanks getting warmer without the fish dying. Heck if your worried about heaters failing, you should be more concerned with what happened with awibrandy(?) with her heaters melting in the tank, and just not get heaters altogether. and even with a controller it doesn't prevent the heater from failing off, and the fish dying from the cold in the winter. So again, is a controller a necessary piece of equipment that must be bought before even livestock, No. Is it a nice piece of optional equipment that should be at the top of the list, Yes.

 

[beerfish]

ALL HEATERS HAVE HIGH FAILURE RATES!

Fine. You win. It's no more necessary than seat belts.

 

[Wes]

A heater failing off isn't much of a concern if the tank is indoors...unless someone turns off the heat in your house in the dead of winter.

But then you have bigger problems.


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[Killerdrgn]

ALL HEATERS HAVE HIGH FAILURE RATES!

Fine. You win. It's no more necessary than seat belts.

Yes, actually that is a good comparison. Can you run a car without a seat belt? Absolutely. Will you die instantaneously if you start your car without a seat belt? No. Is it a nice to have to ensure you don't die if you do get into an accident? Yes.

My driving record, along with my good Jager heaters have the same failure rate in the past 5 years. A big fat zero.

I think you seem to be forgetting that people were keeping fish and reefs even before the advent of controllers. And people drove cars before the advent of seat belts. Are they nice safety enhancements, Yes. Are they necessary (Not including laws and regulations) to making a car? No.

A heater failing off isn't much of a concern if the tank is indoors...unless someone turns off the heat in your house in the dead of winter. But then you have bigger problems.

Actually in my old apartment where I didn't control the heat, that was a possibility. Especially when I went on vacation.

 

[beerfish]

My driving record, along with my good Jager heaters have the same failure rate in the past 5 years. A big fat zero.

I think you seem to be forgetting that people were keeping fish and reefs even before the advent of controllers. And people drove cars before the advent of seat belts. Are they nice safety enhancements, Yes. Are they necessary (Not including laws and regulations) to making a car? No.

Great... now that we have a comparison we can agree on...

Since we have them, wouldn't it be pretty stupid to drive without a seat belt?

(He shoots! HE SCORES!)

 

[fallenlordz]

I want tickets to the fight in NJ :smash: hehehe...

Lets all :kiss: and make up.


-man these smilies are so funny-

 

[beerfish]

I want tickets to the fight in NJ :smash: hehehe...

Lets all :kiss: and make up.


-man these smilies are so funny-

I used to live in Brooklyn... I fight dirty. :biggrinpa

 

[NL146]

Talk about a thread hijack! This is a humdinger. Why not create your own thread to discuss the need for and merits of aquarium equipment? Next someone will be saying that the tank itself may or may not be a requirement to start.:knockedou How you doin?

 

[beerfish]

Talk about a thread hijack! This is a humdinger. Why not create your own thread to discuss the need for and merits of aquarium equipment? Next someone will be saying that the tank itself may or may not be a requirement to start.:knockedou How you doin?

It's not a requirement. You can set up everything in a rubbermaid. :Up_to_som

 

[Killerdrgn]

It's not a requirement. You can set up everything in a rubbermaid. :Up_to_som

Again with the hyperbole.

And no that wasn't a score, because yes i've driven without my seat belt, and I would bet so have you.

And you don't discount the fact that MANY people drove without seat belts safely without a seat belt before it was required by law. Or the fact that your car isn't going to blow up if you don't put on your seat belt.

HE SHOOTS HE SCORES!!!!

 

[asianer]

at least shannon gets to experience the difference of opinions when setting up a tank and the many options she has :tongue:

 

[NL146]

It's not a requirement. You can set up everything in a rubbermaid. :Up_to_som

To be technical, I didn't say "glass tank" so a rubbermaid would qualify as a tank, sooo... Anyway, I refuse to be a part of the hijack.